Bad Guy Matt Oakley

[crotalusadamanteus]

I sent you 390 rodents and you're complaining becaues 10 were not in a bag.

That's a legitimate complaint. It doesn't really matter the quantity that are not in bags. You could have used individual bags and still saved the room.

I weighed each of the bags of rats I sent you and all were above the minimum weight multiplied by the amount that I was in the bag.

So by your reasoning, if you say you sell small rats, 30-40 grams each, in bags of 20, and as long as the bag weighs 300 grams or more, then you properly advertised? It don't work like that dude. Once you give a specific weight per rat, the 30-40 grams EACH, then EACH individual rat needs to weight what you advertised. If you are tossing in some heavier then 40 grams, to make up for some less then 20 grams, that's just being dishonest, unless you directly relay this to your customer, AND they agree to it. Rodent Pro did that to me once, and I go with the other two now. See how it works?

I didn't write the ad to be misleading, I wrote it expecting people to read it.

Problem is, even if they read it, the way you are reasoning your weights, they still may not get what they are expecting to receive.

I don't think you owe the OP a complete refund, but I do figure you owe him something in the way of compensation. To reimburse him for one mouse is like saying bite me.

 

[SPJ]

And I dont even have anything to say to the affect of giving him a full refund (that's crazy to anyones standerds) especially if you know you weighed the animals before they were sent and they WERE within the weight range that I have listed in my ad.

WRONG.
I ordered 100 small rats from Rodent Pro about a 3 years ago. They sent me rat pups (way smaller than expected and what was listed on their site).
I emailed them and they apologized and sent a FULL replacement out right away (of 150 small rats) free of charge and said to just try and use the undersize ones or dispose of them. No excuses from them at all. Just great customer service. I have since been a regular customer knowing I will get what I pay for.

 

[TriangleReptiles]

The point is, if you order acertain size, that is what you should get, regaardless of who the vendor is. When I order, I have specific needs, and I order accordingly. 1 large rat and 10 pinkie mice may weigh the same as 100 hoppers, but they aren't the same thing. They would be useless as feeders if you needed hoppers. That's what matters.

 

[SPJ]

The point is, if you order acertain size, that is what you should get, regaardless of who the vendor is. When I order, I have specific needs, and I order accordingly. 1 large rat and 10 pinkie mice may weigh the same as 100 hoppers, but they aren't the same thing. They would be useless as feeders if you needed hoppers. That's what matters.

 

[craig kade]

Like I said before the bags did not even meat his average, which like has already been said averaging them out is a joke. He even admits to shipping the mice smaller then stated and has refused to do anything for me. Plain and simple he is not a reliable source for rodents and I can not imagine buying anything that costs over $1.75 from him. I did feed his "XL rats" to my 08 balls, tomorrow I will probably feed 6 of them to one of my large female balls just so I can post in the ball python forum on kingsnake, listen to people laugh at them being XL rats, I will also weigh the rats before hand, I am pretty sure out of what I have left I have atleast 6 that are under 130 grams.They must have lost weight in shipping lol. Plain and simple he did not deliver what was promised and has said he has no intention to do anything about it. PLEASE anyone considering doing business with him stop and really think about it, there are other suppliers that will do a much better job. Do not do business with him, when his best testimonials include shorting people that should be a clue. I wish I had not done business with him, don't make the same mistake I did.

 

[Snakepliscan]

Hey Matt! A few good guy posts doesn't change the fact that you burned this customer good! You say you plan on being in business for a looong time? Well if you keep .....ing your customers over you won't! So Duh back at you buddy!!!

 

[EastCoastReptiles171]

From Craig saying that his biggest problem with his order was the fact the I put 10 rats in the bog not in a bag. I'm sure all of you know that once you take frozen rats out of a bad it's not possible to put them back in the bag as they were. While counting I took out 5 rats from a bag to complete it. When I recounted them I realized that I was supposed to be adding 5 rats not suptracting so I took 5 from another bag (hence the reason 10 weren't in a bag). As to Craig saying that out of the hole box these were the only rats that were thawed I really dont believe that as a plastic bag is not enough of an insulator to keep all of the rest of the mice/rats frozen and for these to completely thaw out because they weren't in a bag. Also, from him saying that the rats not being in was by far the biggest problem leads me to believe that there weren't many rats under the minimum weight so I did an experiment last night. Using the same method I used to choose that rats I would send Craig (multiplying the min and max weights of that size by the amount of rats in a bag and only sending the bags that were between those ranges). I picked out 176 XL rats (by my ads standerds, 150-224g). This time I took and weighed EACH AND EVERY of the 176 rats. I wrote down the weights of every rat that was outside of the 75g range listed in my ad as XL. Here's what I got:

Under the minimum weight:

4 120-129g
3 130-139g
3 140-149g
(10 total)

Over the max weight:

6 225-234g
4 235-244g
1 245-254g
1 255-264g
0 265-274g
1 275-284g
1 285-294g
1 295-304g
(15 total)

I cant say that this is the exact breakdown of what Craig recieved, but I don't think it's fair for him to try to drag my GOOD name through the mud because 6% of the rats were smaller than what the ad stated.

I did this experiment to see what I would get myself instead of asking Craig because I really wouldn't believe the number he would say. I think that if most or even a large number of the rats were under the minimum weight he would have stated exactly how many of them were.

I already told Craig that I charged him $20 less than what I paid for shipping. With my sizes increasing in 25 cent incriments adding that into the total price of the rodent order that would mean that I charged him 25 cent less on 80 of those rats. Since I know that nowhere near 80 of those rats were undersized I still took a loss.

Also, a while back I had a customer who after recieving his order told me that many of his mice were smaller than they were supposed to be. I admit at that time I didnt weigh the because I was rushing and figured most were the same size and just counted them. I sent him another box replacing ALL of the mice he ordered and paid the shipping. I realized I made an error and I fixed it. I took a loss just to make sure my customer was happy and I try to do the same with everyone who deals with me.

I do see now that in my method there was room for error which never caused any probelems before. But upon seeing this I will make sure that with my future transactions I weigh each and every animals I send someone. I didn't have and intensions of ripping Craig off (or anyone for that matter) and don't feel that I did.
thanks,
Matt Oakley

 

[DaveyFig]

Matt, I have a lot of respect for the things you have done at such a young age. I hope you take this post as something constructive rather than an attack. I think you are missing some of the points being made by others, and you doing experiments is not going to change what you sent to Craig. You experiment took 176 rats, and 25 were not in the advertized range. 1 out of every 7 wasn't acceptable, in your own experiment. We aren't talking about just the rats that were under weight, but those over as well. Bigger is not always better. It is hard enough buying feeders that have a 75 gram window to feed to specific sized snakes, but when you offer a larger window with the feeders you actually ship, it makes some of the rats worthless. I am sure Craig has animals that can eat the larger feeders, but what if he didn't? For some keepers, if you sent a portion of the order over the advertised range, they would have a ton of feeders they couldn't, and wouldn't be able to use. Smaller feeders means that they may have to feed twice as much(which costs them more), or in the case that a snake wont eat multiple feeders the snake is fed a smaller meal than it needs to grow, or increases the frequency of having to be fed.The arguement that he shouldn't complain because some were over the weight doesn't work. I think that you owe him some kind of compensation, but that should be the two of you. How you handle this could shape your future. I urge you to think long and hard about what you think is right and come to a resolution.

 

[DaveyFig]

but that should be the two of you.

Should say: that should be between the two of you.

 

[jayefbe]

Matt, I have a lot of respect for the things you have done at such a young age. I hope you take this post as something constructive rather than an attack. I think you are missing some of the points being made by others, and you doing experiments is not going to change what you sent to Craig. You experiment took 176 rats, and 25 were not in the advertized range. 1 out of every 7 wasn't acceptable, in your own experiment. We aren't talking about just the rats that were under weight, but those over as well. Bigger is not always better. It is hard enough buying feeders that have a 75 gram window to feed to specific sized snakes, but when you offer a larger window with the feeders you actually ship, it makes some of the rats worthless. I am sure Craig has animals that can eat the larger feeders, but what if he didn't? For some keepers, if you sent a portion of the order over the advertised range, they would have a ton of feeders they couldn't, and wouldn't be able to use. Smaller feeders means that they may have to feed twice as much(which costs them more), or in the case that a snake wont eat multiple feeders the snake is fed a smaller meal than it needs to grow, or increases the frequency of having to be fed.The arguement that he shouldn't complain because some were over the weight doesn't work. I think that you owe him some kind of compensation, but that should be the two of you. How you handle this could shape your future. I urge you to think long and hard about what you think is right and come to a resolution.

Absolutely true, 1 in 7 being NOT as advertised is an absolutely horrible rate.

Another thing, if you were willing to replace an order to please a customer in the past, why aren't you willing to do the same now? You'd think you'd be MORE inclined to do the same now that your "good name" is being dragged through the mud.

And yet another sign that you're failing "middle school physics": the reason that the free rats were thawed is that they were no longer kept in direct contact with other frozen rats. When together in a bag the rats act to insulate each other from the warmer air. Essentially, rats on their own have an exponentially greater surface area to volume ratio, and will thaw much quicker.

Wanna run another "experiment"? Take a two bags of peas, leave one frozen solid and crush the other one up until the peas are free. Tell me which one thaws first.

 

[snakewrangler]

Obviously from this statement you haven't been in my rodent room. I have over 275 LIVE rats which I breed for my own collection. With less than half of these being females (lets say 100) I could produce 1000+ rats every 3 weeks! And that's not even counting the offspring that were produced breeding. Anyone who breeds rats knows that younger females avarage about 13 pups each litter. Producing 1000+ rats every 3 weeks is over 17,000 rats a year that I could produce(this figure also does not include breeding the offspring produced). So, you are definitely wrong about how many rats you think I can produce.
~Matt Oakley

Matt, you are right about that. I have not seen your rodent room and I do not know how many rodents you produce. I left you positive feedback in March of 2008 for a transaction that took place in September of 2007. I based my assumption on two facts:

1. I came to your house to pick up the rodents. I did not see anything there besides a single rat rack and a chest freezer.

2. After that transaction, I saw you on more than one occasion buying large quantity from the rodent vendors at the Havre De Grace reptile show.

Based on these two observations, I assumed that you were a middleman. It is entirely possible that you have expanded your operation and you are now producing the bulk of what you sell, but I figured that this particular dispute over rodent sizes happened because you sold someone else's product.

I stand by my feedback regarding our sole transaction. The rodents you sold me were properly sized and fairly priced. I just figured that they didn't come from your single 4- or 5-tub rat rack.

 

[craig kade]

To clarify, my biggest problem with the SHIPPING AND BOXING was the loose rats, my biggest problem with the order was for sure the undersize animals, they were not what they were suppose to be end of story. EVERY bag of rats but one averaged below 150 grams per rat period, that is the low of your range. It is just a clear case of misrepresenting a product then making excuses after the fact. I tried to talk one on one with him and he basically said too bad. I can guarantee not 1 single rat was over 190 grams, none. I bought rats for adult boas and I fed rats to 6 month old ball pythons. He also hads admitted to knowingly shipping the XL mice smaller then the ad states.

 

[Snakepliscan]

Craig he definitely owes you some type of compensation. Matt keeps harping about how he lost on shipping but that has nothing to do with the fact he sold you undersized rodents. I'm not sure how you paid for this order but you should file a charge back claim if you used a credit card. Of course he's buying rodents from other vendors that's why his prices are marked up so he can turn a profit! There's no quality control here.

 

[craig kade]

I will be in contact with someone from paypal on Monday. I had hoped it would not come to that but it has.

 

[Snakepliscan]

Paypal tends to drag their feet when you file a complaint. First they try to get the buyer and seller work things out, which from the posts on this BOI I don't think that's going to happen. If you used a credit card you'd be better off filing a claim with them against paypal who will dump this right into the sellers lap. I think you'll get faster results this way.

 

[craig kade]

Maybe I will try that then, as long as I save a bunch of other people from dealing with him that will be a victory in itself

 

[Casey Hulse]

I am not sure Craig, but if your credit card co. claims the $$ from paypal, and paypal can not recover the money from Matt, you may have trouble with your paypal acct. in the future. Might want to go thru paypal first...

 

[Casey Hulse]

I've worked in a seafood department for the last 6 years and deal with frozen product everyday. A frozen 2lb bag of shrimp will weigh approx 2.40lbs but when thawed will weigh 2lbs.

Not true
I checked, a sealed bag, same weight yesterday frozen as they are today thawed, exactly the same.

 

[EastCoastReptiles171]

That's a legitimate complaint. It doesn't really matter the quantity that are not in bags. You could have used individual bags and still saved the room.



So by your reasoning, if you say you sell small rats, 30-40 grams each, in bags of 20, and as long as the bag weighs 300 grams or more, then you properly advertised? It don't work like that dude. Once you give a specific weight per rat, the 30-40 grams EACH, then EACH individual rat needs to weight what you advertised. If you are tossing in some heavier then 40 grams, to make up for some less then 20 grams, that's just being dishonest, unless you directly relay this to your customer, AND they agree to it. Rodent Pro did that to me once, and I go with the other two now. See how it works?



Problem is, even if they read it, the way you are reasoning your weights, they still may not get what they are expecting to receive.

I don't think you owe the OP a complete refund, but I do figure you owe him something in the way of compensation. To reimburse him for one mouse is like saying bite me.

That's not what I did, I packed these rats in the bags before Craig odered them. I didn't put some smaller ones in the bag and then some larger to average it out. When i'm packing the bags I only place like sized animals in each bag. You say this under the assumption that I throw all different sizes of rats in the same bag which I do not. I was referring to another customer that said I had shorted them one mouse when I said that I refunded them for it, not Craig.

 

[EastCoastReptiles171]

WRONG.
I ordered 100 small rats from Rodent Pro about a 3 years ago. They sent me rat pups (way smaller than expected and what was listed on their site).
I emailed them and they apologized and sent a FULL replacement out right away (of 150 small rats) free of charge and said to just try and use the undersize ones or dispose of them. No excuses from them at all. Just great customer service. I have since been a regular customer knowing I will get what I pay for.

Are you kidding?? You said that Rodentpro sent you ALL of the wrong size, that is hardly paralell to this situation. To compare your situation to this one I would have had to send Craig ALL smaller animals which was not the case. Being reasonable, i figure AT MOST out of the 140 rats I sent Craig it had to be less than 10 that were undersized especially after me using the same process I used with Craig to pick out 176 XL rats and found that 10 were undersized and 15 were oversized. That means that 151 were within that range. Breaking that down further 86% were the correct size, 6% were smaller, and 8% were larger... If you buy a 1000g snake and when you recieve it, it's 940g are you going to post an complaint of here talking about how you're so dissatisfied with the animal and say the guy ripped you off and expect the guy to give you a full refund??