Melissa Kaplan -- Know thy enemy

[HerpVenue]

Your not a God?
Damn, I've wasted all this time praying to you.

OH my gosh....that is so funny. Mouth full of rice....now all over the keyboard. Note to self.......do not read funny stuff while eating.


p.s. now you know why your prayers are not answered.

 

[meretseger]

Here's what kind of got me thinking- an article on 'rescuer syndrome' as it relates to dogs http://slate.msn.com/id/2083699/. This sort of thing is so prevalent that one of the first things a dog owner is asked is 'Where did you get her?' And then I have to feel apologetic that I got her at a pet store. And lately I've been thinking 'I'm not going to feel bad because I don't have a sob story about bravely rescuing a dog who was being beaten daily at a race track. Know what? I'm GLAD I got her at a pet store, and screw you if you don't like it'. What an evil institution the pet store, which allows people to actually interact with many different dogs before choosing one, and then very evilly hikes the price up 100%, which has the incidental effect of discouraging impulse buys. Of course we all know some pet stores are much worse than others (so are private breeders), but there's nothing fundamentally wrong with the concept of BUYING a dog at a store.

Hope that link works...

Also, I've learned that it's generally a good idea NOT to use the phrase 'Chicken of the Trees' in an iguana forum, and an even worse idea to explain what it means. I've personally made peace with the fact that some of my pets were originally domesticated to feed humans, and that others would be considered 'feeders' to certain other animals, and that it's ok for me to love an animal and someone else to see it as meat, but apparently some people can't handle that.

If you guys aren't careful I'll write a novel about this, because I think it's kinda interesting from a psychological standpoint..

Erin B.

 

[elrojo]

Would it be wrong of me

to visit her AOL site and correct her information (only if I truly feel it's inaccurate, of course) and see if/how may times I get TOSsed? I have quite a few screen names to spare!
Chip Bridges

 

[Cmpyrrhus]

Kinda useless

Many folks have done that (myself included), and unless you want to just stir up her emotions and those of her AOL Herp post buddies there is no real reason to do so. I posted a few times in the green iggy forum on AOL and all of her followers replied with some of the most assanine remarks that I have ever heard. Basiclly the AOL herp posts are there for morons, and good for a good laugh (or cry). It is annoying that folks trying to get some accurate information on any reptile go to those posts to learn. They are by far the dumbest "Experts" that could have been put together. They also repond to critisism with a very unprofessional responce.
They point the finger, "Are you an expert? We are here to help and that is the least you can do. Leave it to us qualified herp professionals to help those in need. Your thoughts are unwelcomed here." This is the average responce if they or you disagree. Most, if not all, of the folks that monitor these posts are no better than Melissa herself and have about the same common sence and care in the world. I tried to place an unbiased apraoch to helping and that still did not work, they will find something to bitch about. Anyhow, a IMO.

Beau Medlar

 

[elrojo]

I wont waste my time then

but what would be a reasonable course of action to educate those visiting these boards?

 

[Laura S.]

The problem with trying to be reasonable is that you are dealing with unreasonable people on the AOL boards.

They simply will not listen to reason, no matter how calmy or constructively it is given. I have had my posts removed as well, and I did not attack or discredit anyone. I simply stated that what I have always heard and/or been taught differed from what they were saying.

It is an unfortunate thing, but the fact is that you cannot be rational with irrational people and expect to get anywhere.

I stopped going to the AOL boards out of frustration. I just couldn't take it anymore.

The only solution I can think of is to tell you what I have been doing myself....which is, everytime I talk to anyone about reptiles, I let them know where NOT to go if they need advice or information. I also explain why they shouldn't believe MK and her groupie's misinformation. It's not an answer that instantly reaches people on a global scale like the internet, but it's something....we do the best we can, and that's all we can do.

 

[Cmpyrrhus]

Thats about all you can .....

....do and know what you are doing may help. I live in Arizona at the moment. Our state law prohibits the keeping of any non-native venomous snake. Therefore I keep two local species, Crotalus cerberus and Crotalus cerastes cercobombus ( AZ Black rattler and Desert Sidewinders). This sparks a bit of interest among folks who would otherwise not be interested. I can usually get in a bit of info to them since I have them indused in this phase of curiosity. The topic usually strays to iguanas or the big snake species since they are so common in the average reptile owners household. I usually find a person who could do something better for their reptiles and give them a few recommendations and suggestions and they actually listen. You can't ask for that from the AOL posts 99% of the time.

AOL herp posts get me annoyed so I rarely check them out. I feel better myself knowing I can tell one person in person how to better care for their reptile, other than posting where my opinion is shot down by the first available jerk to my thread. I am assured that most of you feel the same as well. It feels good to walk away knowing you may have done some good for one person and possibly for some herps, other than getting the cold shoulder because the "majority rules" where more help is needed. What a pisser eh. Oh well, the better of the herpers will prevail once they see the truth of these and other "experts". Well, I sure hope so.........

Beau

 

[Seamus Haley]

If you happen to be using AOL (the only way to view the message boards in question), there are multiple options for your posts. You can send your reply to the message boards, you can email it to the original poster (and any other AOL screennames you list next to theirs) or you can do both at once.

If you see a post you need to respond to, post it to the boards, email it to the individual who you're responding to and add your own name- this saves a copy with the return path of the boards, this way when it's removed despite not violating any of AOL's TOS or community standards, you have proof of the original text.

 

[Gijs]

Re: Hey

We all supposedly keep animals in such a crappy environment and don't meet their needs. They are supposedly suffering in our care. So how in the world do we get this?

Government needs to know the Facts. Not Fairy Tales

 

[xtremecolubrids]

Melissa kaplan?!?!

Wow,
She needs her head examined. The ban of all exotic pets is plain absured! Most people that own them take the time to learn about them. These are being saved if you think about it. With over developement of land most are losing habitat fast. Wouldnt that be more of a concern. Also alot of being captive breed so how does that affect wild population numbers? Monkey pox just an excuse. Lets get real here.... I Enjoy breeding my colubrids and learning new facts about certain species. If there should be any ban the peta and melissa should be banned from even speaking. All they really do is start problems! If there ever was a ban lets see how fast certain species go exstinct do to loss of habitat!!!!!!Rich your dead on. We had our differences before but I like what you wrote!
Chris Duncan
Xtreme colubridS

 

[meretseger]

There are several species of herps that are or almost are extinct in the wild which are being maintained by private indivuduals. There aren't enough zoos to keep a large enough gene pool, and private keepers have really saved these animals. Examples are the Hogg Island boa and a subspecies of the New Caledonian giant geckos (Rhacodactylus leachianus henkli). We can't return them to the wild because their wilds are basically gone, but at least we still have them in some form.

Erin Benner

 

[Gijs]

True !! And if these captive spiecies are maintained in good care, there might be some hope of getting them back where they belong. I honestly think that Captivity is the last option before the animals vanish from the globe... But since we humans cannot keep this planet alive... can we atleast keep the flora and fauna ??

 

[Seamus Haley]

Might be of interest.

Dunno why I bother sometimes though.

Pretty much explains itself- Kaplan was pushing her ball python caresheet, I responded, it was deleted and I was TOSed. Joy.

Dear Member,

Regarding your message posted at Snakes

In order for all members to enjoy our message boards, our community has certain standards of conduct for members to follow. Please review our Home Board Standards for information on what is appropriate in our community. Based on these standards and guidelines, your post was removed to avoid disruption to the message board discussion.

Depending on the severity of the disruption, a report may have been submitted to AOL's Community Action Team for further review.

We appreciate your taking the time to read this letter. Thank you. If you have any questions or comments, please forward them to HOST PETS Mgr.

Regards,

HOST PETS Ratz
Volunteer Message Board Leader
Pets Community

======== Copy of Your Message ========

Subject: Re: ball pythons
Date: 5/21/04 6:05 AM Central Daylight Time
From: M surinamensis
MsgId: <[email protected]>



>You'll find info on ball pythons at my site

"They are equally comfortable on the ground and in trees"

Wrong.

"Like most pythons, ball pythons are curious and gentle snakes."

Anthropomorphism and wrong. There will be many instances of statements throughout this "care sheet" which are incorrect in large part due to the inclusion of "most pythons" or "most pythons and boas"

"Males have longer spurs than do the females; males also have smaller heads than the females."

Stated as an absolute and therefor... Wrong.

"Ball pythons, like all pythons and boas, devour a variety of prey in the wild - amphibians, lizards, other snakes, birds and small mammals."

Again, wrong. There are a good handful of species which, while opportunistic feeders, can't be said to be widely carnivorous and have fairly specific predator-prey relationships. "Devour" when used to describe a species with such strong SPECIFIC feeding instincts is hardly appropriate either.

"They do not eat mice in the wild, however, and do not recognize the mice we offer them as being something edible."

Wrong. They certainly DO eat mice in the wild. Not our lab bred white mice, but they DO eat mice. Understanding which mice is key to understanding the feeding triggers.

"Ball pythons are reputed to be able to go for extended periods of time without food; wild-caught ball pythons have gone for a year or more without food until finally enticed to eat lizards and other snakes"

Since the natural diet contains very few lizards and snakes and the overwhelming majority of a ball pythons prey is mammalian- the above is... WRONG.

"This should also make you suspicious when a pet store tells you that their ball pythons are eating well."

An illogical conclusion based not on reality but rather Kaplan's anti-pet trade sociopolitical views. She has made it abundantly clear many times that she wishes to see the pet trade abolished- any statements she makes regarding the subject are suspect at best, propagandist rhetoric at worst.

"Buying captive-born ball pythons reduces the stress on the threatened populations in the wild and helps ensure you will get a healthy, established eater and a snake already used to contact with humans."

Wrong. Wild populations of Python regius are not threatened. Quite the opposite in fact. Collection for the pet trade has become a fairly substantial industry in many of the nations where these animals are found. Because of this, there is a distinct emphasis on sustainable collection and preservation of habitat. Ball pythons adapt very well to captivity, have extremely low percentages for import fatalities and their collection creates some economic stimulation in nations which need it fairly desperately. While captive bred animals do offer certain advantages, there is no reasonable moral objection to collection of this species from the wild. The above quote is simply... more anti-pet trade garbage.

"All ball pythons are naturally shy about having their heads touched or handled by strangers."

Wrong. More anthropomorphism with the inclusion of the word "strangers" Your snake does not know you as an individual, no matter how much you might wish this was the case. Behavioral responses will alter subtly as animals age and with the approach the handler takes. Rather than your ball python getting to know YOU... you get to know your ball python. It changes the approach you take towards handling and thus the response the animal will display. If you want a pet that loves you and recognizes you as being a unique individual, buy a puppy.

"All snakes are escape artists; ball pythons are especially powerful and cunning when it comes to breaking out."

Compared to what exactly?

"Pine and aspen shavings should not be used as they can become lodged in the mouth while eating, causing respiratory and other problems."

Wrong. Pine should not be used because of the hydrocarbon levels, aspen is 100% totally fine. Unless all those captive breeders who were being so heavily praised earlier in the same "caresheet" have got it wrong...

"The utilitarian approach is to use inexpensive Astroturf. Extra pieces can be kept in reserve and used when the soiled piece is removed for cleaning and drying (soak in one gallon of water to which you have added two tablespoon of household bleach; rinse thoroughly, and dry completely before reuse)."

Poor advice. Astroturf, cage carpeting or any other similar materials are all trash. They are composed of extremely dense microscopic fibers and are never truly "dry" in the center, no matter how they may feel on the surface to the touch. They do nothing more than harbor bacteria, spread disease and illness and fray (leaving very dangerous loops of tough thread sticking up).

"Ball pythons prefer dark places for sleeping and, as they are nocturnal"

The same page started out by listing them as crepuscular.

"Proper temperature range is essential to keeping your snake healthy. The ambient air temperature throughout the enclosure must be maintained between 80-85F (27-29 C)-during the day, with a basking area kept at 90F (32.5 C)."

Wrong. Mere lines after it was noted that they hide throughout the daylight hours and do not emerge when the sun is up. A basking area for a ball python is a useless waste of a lightbulb, a simple thermal gradient maintained from one end of the enclosure to the other is all that is needed. Much simpler to maintain with heat tape or UTHs without mucking around with lightbulbs. Just plain poor advice.

"No special lighting is needed. Ball pythons are nocturnal snakes, spending their days in the wild securely hidden away from possible predators. To make it easier to see your ball during the day, you can use a full-spectrum light or low wattage incandescent bulb in the enclosure during the day."

Again, contradictory information mere lines apart. This section is immediately underneath the one which stresses the importance of a basking area created with an incandescent bulb or ceramic heat emitter.

"When they eyes clear from their milky opaque, or "blue" state, soak the snake in a tub of warm water for ten minutes or so, then lightly dry it off, and return it immediately to its tank; it should shed cleanly within twenty-four hours."

A ten minute soak? Why that duration? What prompted the selection of an apparently arbitrary number like ten minutes?

"Many of the parasites infesting ball pythons and other reptiles can be transmitted to humans and other reptiles."

Wrong. Very few can be transmitted to humans, the majority of parasitic organisms are extremely host specific- to a particular species in some cases.

"Ball pythons are native to very warm, but not hot, dry areas in Africa. Many people make the mistake of trying to keep them in a too humid overall environment, using damp sphagnum moss or misting them frequently throughout the day."

And spend most of their lives underground or underneath leaf litter and detritus. Where the moisture is. The mistake of keeping balls too dry is far more common than the mistake of keeping them too humid- as is evidenced by frequent reports (probably from individuals who followed this "care sheet") of poor sheds and dented eye caps. Balls should have a humidity greater than forty-five percent- around 55-60 is ideal.

"The problem with this is that keeping the overall environment damp leads to conditions such as blister disease where in the skin, usually of the belly, becomes covered with blisters, leading to bacterial infections of the skin, which in turn leads to overall health problems."

Ah... I see now. Melissa Kaplan does not know the difference between "Humid" and "Wet" Not a big surprise really, considering.

"Daily contact with each other will begin to establish a level of trust and confidence between you and your snake."

Anthropomorphic crap. Plain and simple... WRONG!

"Unfortunately, the lust to sell has overcome common sense in private breeders as well as pet stores and wholesalers, and an increasing number of boas and pythons are being sold who are infected with this virus."

Anti-pet trade propaganda again. IBD is extremely rare. While it does occur, it's not common by any stretch of the imagination, nor is the characterization of breeders and dealers as money grubbing uncaring types appropriate or accurate. Kaplan doesn't like the pet trade or, as far as I can tell, the idea of owning animals as pets to begin with. Breeders and dealers are some of the most passionate, animal loving, caring and knowledgeable individuals it's possible to find. If reliable information on a species is desired, go to someone who actually works with it... don't turn to Kaplan's Herp Care Misinformation website if you want to keep your animal alive and healthy.

"The main causes of death of snakes in captivity are directly related to their care: improper temperatures, contact with heating and lighting elements, no regular access to water, lack of necessary veterinary care and treatment, careless handling--all things for which we, as their caretakers, are directly responsible."

Forgot to mention "This caresheet"

This is an old argument... Kaplan has a lot of "caresheets" which contain outright lies, misinformation, dangerous omissions and seem to be little more than a vehicle for her anti-pet stance. Many times she has said that mistakes, when pointed out, would be corrected... I eagerly await the revisions to her ball caresheet (and boa, and burm, and anole, and beardie, and cornsnake, and kingsnake and well... the whole site really) but doubt that they'll appear anytime in the near future... or ever. There's a very good reason why those who have been working with reptiles for long enough to develop that BS radar avoid her like the plague- her "information" seems okay with very casual inspection or if one is not experienced enough to see the errors... It's always wise to seek other sources for anything important though... like keeping your animals alive and healthy.

Hey Kaplan... do you even OWN any ball pythons, or was this "caresheet" written based off information contained in ancient TFH publications and books by DeVosjolie (the most notorious plagarist to ever "write" a reptile care manual)?



-Seamus
"Genes, like Leibnitz's monads, have no windows; the higher properties of life are emergent... And once assembled, organisms have no windows." - Edward Wilson, Sociobiology

 

[TooManyBurmese]

Sorry for bringing back a year old post, but I found it by doing a search for something entirely different.

I have had two people bring in snakes, both explained that they had followed MK's caresheets to the letter, and the snakes were contantly ill anyway.

The first was a boa. The boa was not treated for mites (this isn't MK's caresheet's fault) but also had only been fed "prey the size of it's head". Therefore what I got was a mite infested anemic emaciated skeleton that was put to sleep after I noticed I could stick my hand in the pocket between the ribs!

The second was a ball python. The owner had used the "astro-turf"crap and without a hide box, the snake had tried to burrow under the turf. Needless to say the harsh underside of the turf shredded the crap out of the snake to the point where you could see it's skull and spine. The owner said they left prekilled in the cage and it ate it over night, but other than that they never really bothered with the snake. Due to the urine and fecal matter living in the astroturf, these open wounds were horribly infected. Strangely, after a long conversation with the snake it did not warm up to me nor trust me.

Now the severity of these situations have nothing to do with MK, but this is how easily poeople starting out in the reptile industry are led astray. The general public IS this stupid. These two kids prove that parents DON'T necessarily monitor children's pets. The one kid was 16, the other 14. Since the parents thought the snakes were "creepy" they further avoided the animals.

I think as a community dedicated to the betterment of the hobby, we need to create a large library of caresheets and make that a site in itself, so big, so "Godlike" and so well advertized, that it casts a shadow over the evil that is MK.

 

[ldydrgn]

Danni, I agree with you.

I just wanted to say that I used astroturf for 4 years without any ill effects. But then I provided 2 hides and climbing branches. I also had at least 3 pieces cut for each enclosure and bleached them to disinfect. If 'proper' procedure is done, it CAN be used, but it begins to be a pain in the butt when you have a large collection, so now we just use newspaper. When I was using the turf, I had 9 snakes on it, so it wasn't as bad then, LOL. None of them had any problems whatsoever. Those that DO have problems with it don't provide what the snake needs (hides) and don't clean it properly. *shrug* Just my paltry 2 cents.

 

[Kimberly Foose]

If it were not so sad for the reptile industry it would be funny to me, MK's care sheets and anecdotes, that is. I can see why AOL has let her be a moderator (they have no clue) and she has been promoted (sometimes unknowingly) by herp societies around the country. The first thing I did when I was elected to the board of The Southern Nevada Herpetological Society a few years ago was have her links taken off our website. What really bothers me is that Kingsnake.com has let her have this position. And when asked about why, I received a denial that she was even a moderator. I do not visit any of these sites often. I just do not have the time. But it really bothers me. Sites like these have a huge responsibility when representing the hobby and should really keep the standards higher.

 

[TooManyBurmese]

I think the fact that she has a book out there with her name out there, and that fact alone, regardless of the accuracy of the contents of the book, is what blindsides many into using her as the "standard" for caresheets.

If you're a "newbie" in the reptile field and you want to have some quick links on your site for care sheets because you genuinly want to help anyone coming to your site, her site IS the only one that I know of with a large library of care sheets all in one place.

Same goes with a new herp society. People want to be responsible and have care sheets on their website, but it's a pain to write them as there is so much room for plagurism, and mistakes. I can't think of anyone writing a new care sheet in their own words without already saying what 1000 other people said about the basking temperature of a reptile.

Is there another site with a large library of accurate care sheets?

 

[Laura S.]

There are plenty of good caresheets out there. Whenever possible, I suggest a person search the internet using the Latin name for the animal. You generally get better information and you're less likely to stumble upon on of her sites.

I don't think there's any one catchall answer to a problem like MK. But I do think it's important for everyone who DOES know who and what she is to spread the word as often as possible to those who don't. It's like any other reptile education....people who know the truth about reptiles (that they're not horrible monsters that want to eat our children) have a responsibility to dispell the myths and rumors about them.