Michael Shaak @ Dragonmasterexotics (has anyone had this problem!)

[Reptigirl84]

Well I don't want to say bad things just yet since I am still waiting to see if I get my refund but I would warn everyone be to be careful! I sent him a paypal payment for 8 yearling cornsnakes on the 3rd. Now I did not get a chance to check my email tell the morning of the 5th when the snakes were going to arrive. I had a message from paypal saying my money was being refunded. Now i was TOTALLY confused when I checked and the package was on the way. He emailed me asking if there was a problem and why I had asked for a refund. At this point in time I hadn't asked for the refund and paypal said it was the SELLER who was issuing it. The snakes arrived on the 5th in a very well sealed Fed Ex box. In the box I found 3 styrofoam dishes with lids on them. All the lids had labels on them for the snakes I had ordered. The first one I opened was empty! I thought the snakes might have gotten out in the box. The second one I opened was empty too! The lids were still on these containers and the holes in the top were very small! Finally I opened the third container and there were two cornsnakes in there. One normal and one anery. He did not put anything in the container with them and they were VERY dirty from going poop in there. I pulled the crumpled up newspaper out of the box expecting to find the other snakes but they were not hiding in there anywhere! I had asked him to please place a cool pack in there since the temperature was over 90 outside but he didn't. I was told the snakes were yearling's and were eating rat pinkies. The anery yes could eat a VERY small rat pinkie but the normal was the size of a hatching! It was very lethargic when I pulled it out. I set them up right away in different cages. The normal did not make it 24 hours before it died. It was very weak. Now the seller is not really contacting me other then to say he shipped out 8 snakes. The money has left my bank account but I have not heard anything else about the refund! Now I am really confused because he issued me the refund on the same day I paid him. It was the day before he shipped the snakes. I am not sure what he is trying to do here. Has anyone had this happen before? What should I do!

 

[Cat_72]

Wow, this is kind of confusing....let me see if I have it all straight-

-You sent payment for 8 specific YEARLING corns on 6/3
-On the day they were supposed to arrive, you got notice that a refund was being issued, but then tracking showed the snakes had been shipped
-The seller emailed you to ask why you had requested a refund, but you had not-no sort of dispute had been filed
-The package arrived on the 5th as well, with 2 empty deli cups and 1 with 2 small snakes in it (how was he going to pack 8 yearling corns in 3 deli cups?) but no packing in the cup, nor cool pack used
-Refund never arrived, and seller is refusing to cooperate

Do I have the facts straight?
Do you have the emails from the seller?
-Both snakes smaller than expected, one sickly and died

 

[Cat_72]

Whoa, something went screwy with that last post.....stuff is posted out of order, weird....

Anyhoo, you get the jist of what I was asking, lol. Also curious, what EXACTLY did the email from Paypal say?

 

[Cat_72]

Micheal was just here after this was posted, I wonder why he had no response?

dragonmasterexotics
Contributing Member
Last Activity: 06-07-2008 02:22 PM

 

[Mooing Tricycle]

Can you post the emails that paypal sent you from when you sent the money out to him, and when he refunded the money, and then shipping and tracking info as well?
Any from you and the seller would also help.

 

[Precision Pythons]

He is having a collection sale in the BP section, which I was initially interested in. I am curious as to how this resolves.

JonV

 

[Reptigirl84]

Still waiting to find out. He sent me an email asking what the problem was. I told him i would gladly pay for the one living snake I have or send it back to him but I want my money back for the snakes I don't have. If he did ship them i have no idea HOW they got out but if they did find a way out of the box I don't think it is my responsibility to pay for them. He guaranteed me live arrival ... well... there was no arrival..... I will let everyone know how this works out. Hopefully he is a responsible breeder and will work with me here.

 

[Reptigirl84]

Hey! to answer you questinos:
-You sent payment for 8 specific YEARLING corns on 6/3
Yes, I sent him $160 for 8 specific yearlings

-On the day they were supposed to arrive, you got notice that a refund was being issued, but then tracking showed the snakes had been shipped
I noticed the refund on the day they were going to arrive but it had been issued on the same day it was paid June 3rd

-The seller emailed you to ask why you had requested a refund, but you had not-no sort of dispute had been file
No dispute had been filed and I did not ask for a refund at the time.

-The package arrived on the 5th as well, with 2 empty deli cups and 1 with 2 small snakes in it (how was he going to pack 8 yearling corns in 3 deli cups?) but no packing in the cup, nor cool pack used
Yes 2 of the 3 cups were empty and no there was no packing or paper towels in the cups so the two corns I got were VERY dirty. Only one was as I expected the other one was EXTREAMLY skinny and died that same night.

-Refund never arrived, and seller is refusing to cooperate
refund has not arrived yet. It is still pending in pay pal and the seller has stopped communicating with me yet he is still posting on here animals for sale.

I will post the emails from the seller in the next post. This is very confusing.
Shannon

 

[Reptigirl84]

Personal Emails from him

OK I am posting all of the emails from him directly that I have received. This might be kinda long. Oh and since i am cutting and pasting them out of replies they are backwards with the latest reply posted first so read from the bottom up. Sorry I am in a hurry and don't have time to post each email since we were just replying back and forth. I must go to work now but when i get home tonight I will post the paypal replies.

----- Original Message -----
From: Repti Girl
To: Michael Shaak
Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2008 5:55 PM
Subject: Re: Question for seller regarding 8 Yearling Corns from Shannon James

I was reading the boi
I sent you a list of what I sold you
everything was packed in story containers
so what is the problem

----- Original Message -----
From: Repti Girl
To: Michael Shaak
Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2008 7:58 AM
Subject: Re: Question for seller regarding 8 Yearling Corns from Shannon James

6 are missing ?

----- Original Message -----
From: Repti Girl
To: Michael Shaak
Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 10:19 PM
Subject: Re: Question for seller regarding 8 Yearling Corns from Shannon James

I received the box but 6 of the snakes were missing. Please contact me ASAP.

----- Original Message ----
From: Michael Shaak <[email protected]>
To: Repti Girl <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 4, 2008 6:51:32 AM
Subject: Re: Question for seller regarding 8 Yearling Corns from Shannon James

864112098075 fed ex

----- Original Message -----
From: Repti Girl
To: Michael Shaak
Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2008 9:29 PM
Subject: Re: Question for seller regarding 8 Yearling Corns from Shannon James

did you want payment refunded it is showing refunded in my PayPal let me know what is up please

----- Original Message -----
From: Repti Girl
To: Michael Shaak
Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2008 6:21 PM
Subject: Re: Question for seller regarding 8 Yearling Corns from Shannon James

I received payment
thank you

----- Original Message -----
From: Repti Girl
To: Michael Shaak
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 6:20 PM
Subject: Re: Question for seller regarding 8 Yearling Corns from Shannon James

yeah I will give you one when I have it

----- Original Message -----
From: Repti Girl
To: Michael Shaak
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 6:09 PM
Subject: Re: Question for seller regarding 8 Yearling Corns from Shannon James

I tried to send the pay pal payment. I got an error message then it said if I try to resend it that It may charge me twice. It's not showing it is posted but I am going to give it 30 minutes or so and try again. Will the package have a tracking #
Shannon

----- Original Message ----
From: Michael Shaak <[email protected]>
To: Repti Girl <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, June 3, 2008 6:03:20 PM
Subject: Re: Question for seller regarding 8 Yearling Corns from Shannon James

----- Original Message -----
From: Repti Girl
To: Michael Shaak
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 6:09 PM
Subject: Re: Question for seller regarding 8 Yearling Corns from Shannon James

I set up PayPal long ago

----- Original Message -----
From: Repti Girl
To: Michael Shaak
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 5:46 PM
Subject: Re: Question for seller regarding 8 Yearling Corns from Shannon James

ok cool thanks... just a little curious as to why your payment email is different then this one?

----- Original Message ----
From: Michael Shaak <[email protected]>
To: Repti Girl <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, June 3, 2008 5:42:03 PM
Subject: Re: Question for seller regarding 8 Yearling Corns from Shannon James

lol yeah that isn't a problem
my PayPal is [email protected]

----- Original Message -----
From: Repti Girl
To: Michael Shaak
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 5:34 PM
Subject: Re: Question for seller regarding 8 Yearling Corns from Shannon James

This is kinda a weird question but I was wondering if you can pack them in a box that does not say live animal or reptile. I know that sounds a little odd but Just in case the delivery guy does not bring them straight to my apartment I don't need my office seeing that. LOL I don't think that they would be too happy about that. Let me know.
shannon


----- Original Message ----
From: Michael Shaak <[email protected]>
To: Repti Girl <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, June 3, 2008 4:54:03 PM
Subject: Re: Question for seller regarding 8 Yearling Corns from Shannon James

let me know I will pack them up for ship out tomorrow

----- Original Message -----
From: Repti Girl
To: Michael Shaak
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 4:41 PM
Subject: Re: Question for seller regarding 8 Yearling Corns from Shannon James

$160?

----- Original Message ----
From: Michael Shaak <[email protected]>
To: Repti Girl <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, June 3, 2008 4:37:01 PM
Subject: Re: Question for seller regarding 8 Yearling Corns from Shannon James

how much are you offering


----- Original Message -----
From: Repti Girl
To: Michael Shaak
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 4:34 PM
Subject: Re: Question for seller regarding 8 Yearling Corns from Shannon James

Would you be willing to take a little less then 180 for them?
Shannon

----- Original Message ----
From: Michael Shaak <[email protected]>
To: Repti Girl <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, June 3, 2008 4:20:03 PM
Subject: Re: Question for seller regarding 8 Yearling Corns from Shannon James

Yes I was holding till I heard from you

----- Original Message -----
From: Repti Girl
To: Michael Shaak
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 4:06 PM
Subject: Re: Question for seller regarding 8 Yearling Corns from Shannon James

Hey! Sorry I vanished yesterday had something come up with family. Do you still have the baby cornsnakes?
Shannon

----- Original Message ----
From: Michael Shaak <[email protected]>
To: Repti Girl <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, June 2, 2008 9:33:30 PM
Subject: Re: Question for seller regarding 8 Yearling Corns from Shannon James

30-65grams each

----- Original Message -----
From: Repti Girl
To: Michael Shaak
Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 9:25 PM
Subject: Re: Question for seller regarding 8 Yearling Corns from Shannon James

Do you know how many grams the babies are?
Shannon

----- Original Message ----
From: Michael Shaak <[email protected]>
To: Repti Girl <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, June 2, 2008 8:56:28 PM
Subject: Re: Question for seller regarding 8 Yearling Corns from Shannon James

pay pal is [email protected]

----- Original Message -----
From: Repti Girl
To: Michael Shaak
Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 8:47 PM
Subject: Re: Question for seller regarding 8 Yearling Corns from Shannon James

ok and they are eating rat pinks not mouse pinks? Also do you have photos of any of the other babies? If I make a pay pal payment tonight when will you ship?
Shannon

----- Original Message ----
From: Michael Shaak <[email protected]>
To: Repti Girl <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, June 2, 2008 8:21:08 PM
Subject: Re: Question for seller regarding 8 Yearling Corns from Shannon James

overnight fed ex

----- Original Message -----
From: Repti Girl
To: Michael Shaak
Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 7:21 PM
Subject: Re: Question for seller regarding 8 Yearling Corns from Shannon James

How will you ship them? Over night? 2 day? I am in San Antonio Tx and a little worried about the heat.

----- Original Message ----
From: Michael Shaak <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, June 2, 2008 7:11:57 PM
Subject: Re: Question for seller regarding 8 Yearling Corns from Shannon James

the price is shipped and yes they will arrive alive they are not scrawny babies very well stated and feeding machines

----- Original Message -----
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 7:10 PM
Subject: Question for seller regarding 8 Yearling Corns from Shannon James

The message has been sent to the seller

Return to Auction Details page

Message: Does this price include shipping? Do you have any guarantee on the arrival of these animals?

 

[Reptigirl84]

Well Paypal threw out my claim that I filled like I figured they would.. I filled a claim willing to pay for the two snakes that arrived but not for the 6 that I never saw.. This is what they had to say:

"We have completed our investigation of this case. No further action is required by you at this time. We have denied this claim. As stated in our User Agreement, PayPal’s Buyer Complaint Policy only applies to the shipment of goods, not to disputes about the attributes or quality of the goods received. We have noted your claim in the seller's record. The seller's account privileges will be limited if excessive complaints are received."

It still shows that I have a pending refund. Who knows how long that will sit. The seller has quite communicating with me all together. If buying from this guy... USE CAUTION!

 

[Cat_72]

Shannon,

When you paid with Paypal, did you use a credit card? Many times you can file a complaint directly through your cc company, and get your money back.

Also wondering, you say that he is refusing to communicate, have their been unanswered emails since the ones you posted? I don't see anyplace where you requested a refund from him, or even discussed what to do about the missing snakes?

 

[spawn]

And another person jumps the gun on the BOI...great.

it still shows that I have a pending refund. Who knows how long that will sit.

5 days. 3 if they are consecutive business days. I just had a refund come through on paypal; issued June 6th, will clear today. It depends on when the bank (assuming paypal funds come from a checking account) gets the notice.

You really should have waited before posting anything on the BOI. His last email to you was 4 days ago and you think he's dodging you? And how about waiting until your refund at least clears? Jeeze louise. I understand the situation doesn't make much sense now, but it's been less than four days since his last response and your refund has yet to clear -- and you made a thread now in the BOI that can't be deleted so if it turns out to be a misunderstanding, you appear antsy and impossible-to-please to people just browsing threads and not necessarily reading them through.

 

[Reptigirl84]

Hey. I did send him emails but I don't save my outgoing emails. I know stupid me. The copies I posted here were from emails that we replies to back and forth so it showed it in the email when he replied back to me. He has yet to reply to any of my emails trying to find some kinds of resolution. I made several attempts to contact him via email but no reply ever came. I have talked to my bank about the pending refund which has been pending since the 3rd. That's 8 days still pending. They said that I may not get the money that way since paypal will only take the funds from his account if they are available. With paypal here is the only comment he sent: (Again read from the bottom up)

From PayPal: PayPal on 6/10/2008 07:37 PDT
Buyer escalated this dispute to a Claim.

From Buyer: Shannon James on 6/10/2008 07:37 PDT
I will pay for the two snakes that arrived even thought one died right away and was not as expected but I would like my money refunded for the snakes that did not show up at all! I understand the seller is at a loss too if he did ship all 8 of the animals but they did not arrive.

From Buyer: Shannon James on 6/9/2008 16:23 PDT
I have not heard from you. Are you planing and working with me at all with this problem?

From Buyer: Shannon James on 6/6/2008 19:34 PDT
I Only received one normal in VERY bad condition and one anery! The normal did not make it threw the night. It was Very lethargic when it arrived. It was MUCH smaller then i was told it would be! I would like my money refunded for the snakes I did not receive.

From Seller: Midwest Ratterery on 6/6/2008 10:14 PDT
I shipped 1 snow 4 anery and a normal 2 motely to the address she prvided through paypal

From Buyer: Shannon James on 6/5/2008 20:54 PDT
I ordered 8 yearling cornsnakes and only received 2. One of them is VERY small and lethargic! The small one is the size of a hatchling. I was told they were eating rat pinkies! This one is so small I need a newborn mouse to feed it! Please contact me ASAP! I would like to work this out.

 

[Gloryhound]

Well I just made a purchase with him. Sent him the PayPal payment yesterday. It registered complete almost around 4:30 PM yesterday eastern time (about an hour after it was actually sent). A request for him to give some kind of acknowledgement was sent with the paypal Payment, an E-mail I sent him, and then a message on his phone this morning. The lack of return communication is making me want to pull my hair out. He is supposed to ship them out today and supply a Fed-ex tracking number as what was origionally agreed upon. We will see how it all shakes out and I will let everyone know here!

 

[SPJ]

And another person jumps the gun on the BOI...great.

it still shows that I have a pending refund. Who knows how long that will sit.

5 days. 3 if they are consecutive business days. I just had a refund come through on paypal; issued June 6th, will clear today. It depends on when the bank (assuming paypal funds come from a checking account) gets the notice.

You really should have waited before posting anything on the BOI. His last email to you was 4 days ago and you think he's dodging you? And how about waiting until your refund at least clears? Jeeze louise. I understand the situation doesn't make much sense now, but it's been less than four days since his last response and your refund has yet to clear -- and you made a thread now in the BOI that can't be deleted so if it turns out to be a misunderstanding, you appear antsy and impossible-to-please to people just browsing threads and not necessarily reading them through.

You're first sentence ticks me off.

Why wait?
He got dirty empty containers.
No correspondence from the seller.
The seller saw this thread and ignored it.

All you have to do is go to your paypal account and issue a refund. He can issue the amount for the missing snakes or for the full amount. If the money is in paypal, it is an instant refund. If his paypal account is tied to his CC or a verified bank account, it is also instant.

There is no excuse.

He needs to issue a refund immediately.

 

[Gloryhound]

He E-mailed me confirming he recieved the payment earlier today. He said he would E-mail the Fed-ex number once he shipped it today and had one. Once we get that we will see what the end product looks like. So far so good.

Since my wife is going to be the one recieving them I am thinking of having her record recieving it and opeining it on the DVD-camcorder. Then we can put it on U-tube once I get a chance (which isn't often since I travel a lot for work) and the whole world will know how my dealing went. I doubt if anything will go bad as he seems OK when I have spoken to him and he went through the how he would pack them with me.

 

[Royal Morphz]

Gloryhound did you mention this thread and see if he was going to make this deal right ive seen him reading this thread but no responce from him? not choosing sides but without his side it seems he in the wrong

 

[Gloryhound]

Gloryhound did you mention this thread and see if he was going to make this deal right ive seen him reading this thread but no responce from him? not choosing sides but without his side it seems he in the wrong

No I did not mention this thread to him. Actually his profile lists him as not being on line since 4:31 PM yesterday. I just figured since I made the deal and have carried through with it on my end and he on his end so far we can all see what happens before we burn a breeder, on one recent transaction in which we only see one side of to date!

All too often people don't post about good dealings. Since this thread is extremely recent and he hasn't posted on it I figured I would keep people appraised of the full transaction as much as possible in a step by step format so if anyone else deals with him they know what to expect. Compared to trying to list it all out in hind sight a month or something like that after the transaction. If he feels the need to come on and tell me I am miss stating something then I welcome it!

If everything turns out good in the end then he will receive my endorsement as a seller. If something goes wrong and I believe he is some how accountable, then I can put it here. All the information from the time I sent money on will be listed here and I can't go back and change it to make either of us look better or worse. The only additional things I can do is post my copies of actual E-mails and information regarding the paypal payment to support anything anyone says may not be true.

To me it sounds like a fair way of getting facts of my deal out before I become biased in any direction. Is it in his defense or is it against him? I have no way of knowing as the deal is not over yet!

 

[Cat_72]

If everything turns out good in the end then he will receive my endorsement as a seller.

David, I'm honestly not trying to jump on you here, so please don't take it that way....I understand that you are saying that "if" your deal goes well....but the fact does remain that another customer received only 1/4 of the snakes she paid for, one died within 24 hours, and he's refusing contact with her. Knowing this, you would still recommend him to others?

 

[Gloryhound]

David, I'm honestly not trying to jump on you here, so please don't take it that way....I understand that you are saying that "if" your deal goes well....but the fact does remain that another customer received only 1/4 of the snakes she paid for, one died within 24 hours, and he's refusing contact with her. Knowing this, you would still recommend him to others?

I can see were you are coming from, but just in my short time of being active in the online herp community (mostly other boards) I have seen several several new breeders and a couple breeders in their second or third year get ripped apart by one persons claim on a bad dealing. IMO for a Bio forum to work the community as a whole needs to not only come on and list the bad stuff, but also the good stuff right along with it.

Granted I still do not have a Fed-ex tracking number at 8:34 AM eastern on the day they are supposed to arrive. I have called and left 2 voice mails asking for tracking number and E-mailed him stating if he has not shipped that he should not ship because over the next couple of weeks no one will be available to receive them and just send a refund Via PayPal. Also if we have not received snakes, refund, or further contact by noon today we will be filing a claim through PayPal based on him not meeting the originally agreed upon shipping schedule.

With all that said maybe my first assumption is wrong and we do have to assume the worst based on limited available info.