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    Yeah, I know. They are a pain in the butt. But they pay the bills to keep my server running. Just a fact of life, I am afraid.

    Want to get rid of them? Simple. Just become a Contributor level member or above and they will be gone. -> Please click HERE."

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    Google Adsense ad revenue for December, 2025 was just $30 over the cost of the lease for the server running this site. So, in effect, the money providing the incentive for me to continue running this site is coming SOLELY from the paid memberships and sponsorships here. Which honestly ain't much....

MIKE ZAGROBEL<br>.... HEADS-UP!!

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I expect him to follow through.... no ifs, ands, or buts....</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Your word is your word.... period! It's not a gray area?.... it's black and white!</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Well just recently I made a deal to buy some reptiles.
Guess what?
My wifes pay got screwed up.....she did not get paid what she was supposed to.  it was $600 too short.
And my pay goes to rent.
Guess what...I decided to pay rent.

Let me see...hold true to my word or pay the rent and keep a roof over my baby's head?


Well I gave this gentleman my word that I would buy.  He was very understanding when I explained my situation.

So neil it is right there...."in black and white"
If I made this deal with you....my name would have appeared here isntead.  Because you would rather sell a snake than have me keep this roof over my head.  -- GOT IT -- no gray areas.
 
Ritchie.... are you OK, man?? You keep mixing apples and oranges?? This guy didn't lose a paycheck?.... he didn't burn down his house?.... he actually gave me his word, and then went out and bought another snake! If you have a good reason for backing out of a done deal, well then of course you should have some sympathy.... your scenario has nothing to do with keeping your word when all things are even! You had special circumstances.... I could understand, and appreciate that, and I would absolutely have let you slide, without putting your name anywhere near this board! My scenario is a different thing altogether.... can't you see that?? This isn't a bashing of you?? I'm truly trying to figure you out.... you seem to work by two completely different set of rules depending on the situation?? I just don't get it.... ?? ....Neil
 
Apples and Oranges ...man what a tired old saying  <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>
This thread is something
Everybody has a set of ethics that we all follow for OUR OWN GOOD, and yes it is in our best interest to make our customers happy and to keep ourselves satisfied in the same sentence.
I got to agree with Ritchie on this one wholeheartedly
I can understand the giving of the WORD but also there are insinuating circumstances[ like maybe getting a snake cheaper elsewhere] or an act of God. A gentlemens agreement?? cmon man.
But why is this thread here , well in Neil's eye he was jilted ,lost sale , lost time and time is money[maybe a bit of over-reacting also]
Why did Ritchie respond the way he did??? two words...........................FREE COUNTRY.
freedom to as he said to change his mind
 
Just when I was starting to feel good.

This post is here because Neil wants us to know that this individual, for no other reason than greed, went back on his word. There are alot of reasons why someone needs to back out of a deal. With proper communication most things can be understood and worked out. None of this happened with this individual.
 
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">your scenario has nothing to do with keeping your word when all things are even! You had special circumstances.... I could understand, and appreciate that,</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>Well I am glad you see what I am trying to say.
Trust me though...I do see your point.  And it is a pain to have someone back out.  But it is part of the business.  It is something I will have to live with.
 
Ritchie.... I guess what started me out REALLY thinking about MY word as Black and White, was about a year ago, I called Fredo of Xtreme Reptiles and ordered a dozen baby balls at his price.... later the next day.... just by coincidence, I had a friend of mine call me asking me to take HIS baby balls for about HALF what Fredo was charging me (which was a very good price to begin with), I called Fredo and left a message that I was going to back out of the deal because I found them cheaper somewhere else.... about an hour later, Fredo called me and basically (and correctly)  read me the riot act! And HE WAS RIGHT for doing so! He ALWAYS sends me hundreds of dollars worth of animals on MY WORD that he will get a check for them.... all I get from Fredo, are the animals and a BILL.... in other words, I'm TRUSTED! And I highly value that trust.... well, I ended up buying Fredo's, too.... I just cost-justified all of them together and it STILL came out to be a great price.... they all sold eventually, anyway.... but, since that point in time.... I've been like a radically reformed smoker.... my word is my word.... I will NOT go back on it! Period! But, as you say.... that's just me....
....Neil
 
I missed it again!  Everytime I have some work you to do, you guys unfairly have a HUGE debate in a brief period of time!

Well, having people back out on deals is just the cost of doing business, I'm afraid.  I sell insurance to over-the-road trucking companies.  I have had lots of "Ok, you've got the lowest price; come on down and write us up" speeches over the years, only to show up just as the other agent is having MY sale sign on HIS application!  I hate it, but the fact is it happens.  The old saying about the world of business is true.  The bottom line IS the bottom line.

Now, from a buyer's perspective, this is exactly why I refuse to say "SOLD" unless I am certain I am willing to buy.  A disaster may keep me from following through with my intentions, but a better deal coming along will not.  From the seller's perspective, this is why I require a 25% deposit in order to hold any animal.  I will not take an animal off of an advertisement until it's paid for.  If others ask about an animal that already has a deposit placed on it, that is what they are told.  If the depositor fails to follow through, he will lose his deposit and the next person on the list will then be contacted.

It's a shame that people are so often quick to say "sold" when they should really be saying "maybe."  However, that is the way it is, and I foresee little to no change anytime soon.

P.S. Dave, I really don't care if Neil is known to be spitting up split pea soup as his head rotates 360 degrees, while sitting on his levitating bed!  Do you really think that YOU ought to be the one to point out his failings?  Let someone else point out Neil's shortcoming as they make themselves visable.  Please?  The last thing we need is a revival of old things left behind.

<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>
 
I would like to point out two things her.

1) The scarlet king snake deal was me, In April of this year Neil told me not to sell any of the kings to anyone but him he promised me that he would buy each and everyone at $3 a inch. He gave me "his word" then backed out on it with no reason. It never upset me me it only took 5 minutes to sell them else where. I was only pointing out that he should not be upset at someone for doing what he himself does or has done in the past.


2) Neil you said

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">On Tesday morning, I got an email from him asking me to call him on the phone so we could discuss the purchase of my Dumeril's monitor.... we spent about 1/2 hour on the phone, and eventually agreed on a trade/cash deal.... </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

In the first post here.


Then you said

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Ritchie.... are you OK, man?? You keep mixing apples and oranges?? This guy didn't lose a paycheck?.... he didn't burn down his house?.... he actually gave me his word, and then went out and bought another snake! </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Now I'm not trying to split hairs here but are we talking about a snake or monitor here?

Did the guy just change his mind about a monitor and got a snake instead?

Did he give you any reason for the change of heart?


Darin, I only point out a "fact" that had everything to do with the topic at hand. I am sorry if it upset you in anyway. I do believe that even I have the right to Freedom of speech. So this was uncalled for,


</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">P.S. Dave, I really don't care if Neil is known to be spitting up split pea soup as his head rotates 360 degrees, while sitting on his levitating bed!  Do you really think that YOU ought to be the one to point out his failings?  Let someone else point out Neil's shortcoming as they make themselves visable.  Please?  The last thing we need is a revival of old things left behind.

</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
 
Dave,

You are granted the Freedom of Speech via the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States.  As such, the government of the Untied States is precluded from telling you what you can say (in most instances) or where you can say it.

I, on the other hand, am a simple citizen and am not precluded from acting toward you in any way via the Constitution.  I have every right to tell you that you should leave Neil out of everything you post, and if you are too simple to see the wisdom of that advice, by all means...post away, my friend!  You won't hurt my feelings in the least.

<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>
 
Darin, You are right it is getting late. But I have only post with Neil's name one other time (since he has been back) and that was to welcome back. I will only post his name if it concerns the thread in which I post it, Just like this one.
 
Certainly this has evolved (devolved?) into an ethics issue, and this has been addressed several times over the life of the BOI.

Personally, I am siding with Neil.

Matter of fact, right before the Tinley Park show, I had someone email me an order form, credit card and all, saying they wanted a particular animal I had displayed a photograph of.  So of course, that animal stayed at home while we packed up for the show.  That weekend, I checked my email while in Chicago and got an email from this person saying she had changed her mind because she found one cheaper closer to home.  Of course, I told her exactly what I thought about what she had pulled.  Whether or not this is common practice in any business relationship is irrelevant to me.  And to be quite honest, there is just no way in hell I would even give her the slightest consideration if she approaches me about another order in the future.  As a seller, I can certainly turn away prospective customers that I do not wish their business, and I will do that in circumstances such as this.  This person's word now means absolutely nothing to me.

Anyone, put yourself in this scenario. Joe Blow, whom has publicly stated that he does not consider himself bound by his own words when he says he will definitely, positively, on his mother's grave, buy that animal, tells you that he definitely wants that piebald blood python you are selling.  He will be overnighting the check to you in the morning.  In the meantime, someone else calls you an hour later and says they want that very same animal, and is prepared to give you a credit card right then and there to seal the deal.  What do you do?

Would Joe Blow have any right at all to be pissed that you sold that animal to someone else even though he promised on a stack of bibles that he was sending that check?  Would you, knowing what you did about his attitude about his own word, be bound to take him at his word, knowing it meant nothing to him?  Who is at greatest risk here in this transaction?

Is that the way we want to be doing business?  Basically no one's word will be worth the breath it took to make the sounds?  That is what some people are suggesting here on one side of the argument.  If it is fair for a buyer to back out of a deal no matter how strongly the committment was made to follow through, then the seller will also not be bound to any deal made.  Is that what you would want?  No seller's word will be worth anything and neither will any buyer's?

Doesn't the word TRUST mean anything to anyone?  That is what some people are suggesting that we just throw out the window.

Personally, I feel that if someone values their own word so little, then it is valueless to me as well.  And as far as I am concerned, when I hang up the phone after hearing someone like that place an order for something from me, I will consider the conversation as never having taken place at all.  That animal is still for sale. IF certified funds show up and IF I still have the animal he is interested in, then I will certainly sell it to him.  But I won't lose a moment's sleep wondering if that money is going to be showing up or not.

Bear in mind that a reputation can make you or break you in any business.  Having the strength of character and resolve to stand behind your words, TO THE BEST OF YOUR ABILITY, is what separates the men from the boys in any business.

IMHO
 
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">He will be overnighting the check to you in the morning.  In the meantime, someone else calls you an hour later and says they want that very same animal, and is prepared to give you a credit card right then and there to seal the deal.  What do you do?</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

That's exactly why I happened to agree with Neil's policy. No money no sale, no down payment no animal, etc.

Now, if it is my decision to take the chance with and individual and go against my better judgement, then I should know I am taking a risk.

We had agreed in countless ocassions that communication is the key. You may want to take the time and go back to the old BOI and check what was said about this subject on the thread about "deadbeat buyers". Communication is the key.

In both Rich's and Neil's examples the prospective client contacted them before the set deadline telling them they were not interested in closing the deal. If they would have left them both hanging without any communication then I would agree with what was said.

As part of your business practices you may choose not to do business with that individual anymore, spread the word that he is an immoral or unethical person, or request prepayment before holding an animal for him in the future. But remember you will also be judged by how you treat your customers.
 
Well said Rich. Now, I also know that we're talking about cash sales and Daniel you state that Neil has a good policy (which I agree with). But, he and Rich went against their better judgement and they took the risk. This may very well be so. So, let me run something that JUST recently happened to me and let me know how you would then handle it.

I had a party contact me on a trade deal. This party already backed out on 2 different cash and trade/cash deals. Now his reason was a family situation and I gladly let him out of the deals with no ill will. We'll we made the agreement. Because I was now a little cautious, I asked that he email me stating that this deal is SOLID and when he would ship. He did. Now, at this time I have a past customer come in and was ready to Pay me THAT day. I turned down his offer because I gave my word on the deal. I could of used the cash MUCH more than trade, but we are talking about keeping your word. Well, this person once again backs out and I lose close to $4,000 CASH (No the amount of money doesnt make a difference. A person not honoring their word should be viewed in a cautuous light. Be it a $25 or a $4,000 sale. It makes no difference).

What would you consider a fair way to handle trade or trade/cash offers ? There's not much you can do but make a judgement call on their personality and hope they won't leave you hanging. When they back out of that deal its no different then someone backing out of a cash deal. You're using their animals a part or full cash payment. I dont think too many people will like a deposit on a straight trade deal. So, what's the soluation ?

I also disagree with a statement that said we cant pick our customers, but we can chose who to buy from. Thats not the case and thats why everyone's word (be it buyer or seller) should carry some weight on their honesty. I will and have refused sales, if I dont feel comfortable with the buying process with a person. So, just because you have money doesnt always mean you can buy from whomever you want.

Joe Dembinski
 
Seems pretty simple. I myself am waiting for a m.o.  If it shows so be it. If not oh well. I'm sorry but if i made a deal and before i can send money a family cash flow takes that money you can call me all the names in the book but you better believe i'm taking care of family. If you don't understand that tuff. I will contact you asap of course but i won't lose sleep. I've had to back out of a few deals after things were set. I emailed the people promptly and apologized. They seemed to understand like a normal human being would. If the sale of animals means sooo much to a person then don't say ok. Ask for a nonrefundable deposit and if they don't want the animal after all they lose their deposit simple. I don't understand the big life and death "Your word is your honor" comments. Sell the animal to who ever has cash, credit card , or m.o. in hand if you can't handle someone backing out of the deal then decline the sale.  By the way, if i make a deal for hmm, a monitor and then see one younger, better temper, cleaner looking, cost less, or what ever the reason I will let you know the situation and make purchase.  Sorry so long but i wanted to try and say my peace  as i see this as one of those backand forth for ever threads over something so simple......  <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>
 
I still say, make a policy and stick with it--that way, you dont feel taken advantage of.

As for taking someone's word on a "done sale"...sorry, maybe I'm cynical, but if I dont know the person, I'm not going to take their word.  I'll hold an animal for them, but I wont be surprised if it doesnt pan out.  And I realize that it is my choice to hold it for them or not.  If they back out, I dont feel burned--it was my choice.  

I've had tons of people back out on deals, I'm used to it.  And I dont hold it against them--I'm with Ritchie here--things come up, they changed their mind--their right as a consumer.

If one sale makes or breaks you, you better have a policy like Neil's and stick to it.  Make a policy that works for your type of business--Neil's works for his, mine works for mine.  For example, I have the luxury of breeding 99% of what I sell, so if I dont make the sale right away, I get to charge more for the animal as it gets older--for that reason holds and losing sales is not a big deal.  Although, when I have shows coming up, I tend to make sure all animals are paid in full (or I have a non-refundable deposit) before the show and let the customers know why.  Most are understanding.

I definitely understand the other point of view and frustration as well, and it stinks that we cannot trust people's word when it comes to sales, but that is probably just the nature of a consumer society.

Anyways, just couldnt resist adding to the thread.

Dana
 
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