"mike" BD ad on Kingsnake.com

[D Dragon]

I don't want to sit here and a B--- buster, more or less to help keep everyone else from getting burned! I got in contact with mike to purchase a sunburst dragon on kingsnake. The pic of the dragon was of a very nice looking bright yellow dragon. I sent him his money for shipping and for the dragon. what i got in the mail was a plain gray everyday dragon. I immediately wrote back nd inquired about this, I was told not to worry this was common and his color would return in a couple of days when he got more comfortable. WRONG one month later and a few sheds I still have a common dragon. I asked for a refund, I was told he would refund the 75 for the dragon but not the 50 for shipping, I would also have to pay an additional 50 for shipping the dragon back, BREAK TIME, lets do math= 50+75=125 if you return 75 you will be -50 now add another 50 (to ship back) you end up with -100 dollars and no dragon, I dint see that happening. I was also told by "Mike" If I sent the dragon back for more than 75 he would accept it, he'd let it die then return it to me and then i would be out of luck. The dragon is very healthy and a great pet, I would rather keep it and give it a great life than to let this man kill it. I also found out that he is a third party person in this deal and has never even seen the beardie. any how please be careful of this individual so your hard earned money isn't wasted like mine was.

 

[kmurphy]

Is this the guy?

http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=51&de=429147

It is pretty hard to stay away from someone with only a first name. You must have a full name since he shipped you a BD. How about an email address? Also do you have an email exchange - post them if you have them. Email him and let him know you posted here.

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

You definitely are on shaky ground.

Chris

Not trying to be a smartass here but, given the text of the ad I don't think you have left yourself a lot of ground to complain. The text is shown below:

Whole Sale colorful bearded dragon SALE!
Continental USA
Posted by Mike (Contact Me!) on July 31, 2006 at 19:29:17
Registered PetHobbyist User since 2006-03-17
View Ads (5) | This Category Only (4)
Send this ad to a friend! Click Here!


Click on thumbnails to view fullsize in a new window

Way too many dragons and not enough space requires whole sale prices!!

These dragons are anywhere from 5-9 inches. please specify what you would like and prefer. They are a cross between a sunburst (Dragon Den) male and a sunfire/hypo red cross female. Prices are as follows Please email with questions or other offers.
1 dragon $75+ shipping
5 dragons $100+ shipping
10 dragons $175+ shipping
15 dragons $250+ shipping (6 inches or mixed sizes only)
20 dragons $325 +shipping (6 inches or mixed sizes only)

Nipped dragons also for sale.
same prices minus $5 per dragon.
Pictures are examples of dragons from these clutches.

nowhere in the ad does he state that all of the clutchmates look like the pics. He is wholesaling the animals at normals price if you buy 10 or more. Unless he specifically told you that the animal you were receiving was bright yellow, there is not much room here for a real complaint.

My suggestion....see if he will pop you back $25 to square things. In all honesty, if you were looking for a stellar dragon based on that ad your hopes were a bit unrealistic. He is selling them in groups for $17.50 each. That should have been a big red flag.

I'm curious...why would you have not bought a group of 5 for the additional $25? That would have given you a selection to choose from and 4 animals to move cheaply to offset the cost of the one you kept.

BTW...the pics look like they have been retouched to make the ones shown look more yellow. That is just my opinion of course but I look at a lot of pics.

 

[D Dragon]

Sorry I forgot a few things. The ad was for one sunburst dragon it was about a month ago. It has been removed. These ads were not placed until a latter date. The pic in my ad had the same look to them but I'm no pic expert. I'm trying to figure out how to post the e-mails. The funny thing is when I spoke to this guy he acted like he had great bloodlines and even told of others bloodlines who he had breed with. he had me convinced. now i cant get any replies.

 

[D Dragon]

Yes I understand what your saying. Im not paying for you to ship it back to me.



Im not refering to you refunding 75 dollars for the dragon and the shipping. Its for you to pay the shipping to get the dragon back and then refund me my 75 dolalrs back.

[email protected] wrote: I'll be home tuesday, so you can send him on monday. I am only refunding your $75 because I am not losing money on selling you a dragon regardless. It is your choice to send it back. If it is for more than $75, I will not accept the shipment, it will be sent back, the dragon will be most likely be dead, and you will be out of options then.

Mike





Yes sir Ill be more than happy to make sure someones home I certainly dont want him to die. Its running around 100 degress around here is that to warm? Ill ship him to you cod. if i pay shipping ill have payed 100 dolars in shipping to only get back 75. If youll let me know what day is good for you ill make the arangements.

[email protected] wrote:
Before you ship the dragon, you need to inform me so I can verify that somoene will be home to receive the package.


Mike,

I've had your dragon now since the 12th of July, he has shed twice now with no color change. This truly upsets me because this isn't right. I've contacted two widely known breeders who's names I will not release due to their requests, who state that he is not going to change his colors, and that I should go ahead and take your offer on a refund.So I am writing you for a refund on the sunburst dragon that I purchased from you on July 11, 2006. If you will please contact me so we can make arrangements. The dragon is still in perfect health and is eating well. in fact he has probably grown a bit. I appreciate your time and concern with this. and again Thank you


Sincerely,
Chris EdmondsI understand. He is a yellow morph. We picked out the yellowest dragon we had left, in fact you may have gotten the exact one from the pic since you specified so much that color was important to you. After we packed him up , I reopened the packaging and he had already lost his color within minutes of him being taken out of the cage and put in the container. As I have said before, this is common and it takes some time for it to come back. The option is on the table for a refund. An exchange would prove pointless, since the other dragons are of the same heritage and you got one of the yellowest we had. Have you ever bought dragons online before? My suggestion for next time is that rather than buy off kingsnake, go to Dragon's Den online and shell out $300 and you will have the same quality dragon as our parents. When you receive your dragon, he will look gray, just like ours did but after a few weeks he will color up and by the time he is an adult he will be bright yellow just like ours. This is only a hobby of ours which is why we sell them for cheap on kingsnake. Sorry if you are unhappy but I don't know what else to tell you

Mike


Mike

I dont mean to upset you in any way i just was really looking forward to getting a nice and yellow dragon just like the one in your photo on kingsnake. they apear to be the same age but totaly diffrent colors. He has even already shed. I am surly convenced that you have very healthy reptiles. we just saved our money for a yellow morph and we realy looking forward to getting one. I would be more than grateful to exchange him for one just like the pic. except by the time I ship him back I would have already spend a hundred dollars just on shipping and we dont have that kind of money right now. I know you mean well I just dont know exactly what to do.

[email protected] wrote:
Hi Sir

I'm not sure what you would like me to say or do at this point. Its only been a few days since you have gotten the dragons. If you want, you can send the dragon back and we will refund your money. The pictures are not necessary, since I know what I sent you.

Mike




Im going to try and send you 2 pictures the one that is alone is the one you sent me, the pair are mine, the one on the left was born yellow with orange stripes. the color isnt as clear on him as normal because his was taken early this morning, the sunburst was taken last night. Do you see the difrence? I sure wasn't expecting him to look so normal.

[email protected] wrote: Hey Chris

Just got home. That is very common for dragons to lose their color while being shipped. I shared your same concern when I got mine from Dragons Den. I even called Kevin (the owner) and asked which dragon was the sunburst and which was the german giant because I couldn't tell. I was very worried but after a few weeks it became extremely obvious which was the sunburst. I would 100% expect the same for you. If in a few weeks you are still unhappy, we can discuss it again but trust me, this is very common and you should see the color in the dragon once it begins to start eating and heats up and get comfortable in its new surroundings.

Mike


I wasnt sure if my message from kingsnake got sent or not. I got your dragon this morning he looks very healthy except he has no color at all. he looks like a common not like the one in you ad on kingsnake.com. hes been in his new home for an hour or so and hasnt changed any shades. I was thinking he was going to be bright yellow or at least yellow tinted. but again hes very healthy. look forward to hearing from you soon, Thanks, Chris

[email protected] wrote: Hey Chris

Just sent out the beardie. Should arrive tomorrow by 10:30 am...the tracking number is 791045479964 and we used Fed Ex. Please don't hesitate to ask if you have any questions or concerns about the beardie or anything at all. Thanks again and enjoy!!

mike


I just sent the payment via pay pal, wow what a pain in the rear! anyhow a male would be great. thanks again
also could you overnight it to be here on weds? I'm working at the fd for 24hrs on tue.
[email protected] wrote: Hi

If you have a preference in sex let us know as we can try and do out best. As for payment, we usually deal with paypal. Our paypal user name is [email protected] If you prefer something else such as a money order or a check, let us know and we will send you the address. We will also need your name and home address. Again it is $125 for one sunburst. And you are right, the yellow really works well for dragons especially when they get full sized and fired up, it can be quite a site to see. Thanks again

Mike


Thanks, I guess any sex is fine as long as they are healthy. well ive got the money together today. so ill order one first thing in the am. ill be home the next day. please just let me know how to send the money. thanks again, im really looking forward to getting a new dragon. ive always wanted a citruis or a sunburst. i think the yellow really compliments a beardie.

[email protected] wrote: Well the dragons are about 7 inches in length so we can try and sex them but it is only our best guess since they are still relatively young. To be absolutely sure of a dragon's sex they need to be around 6 months in age and our dragons are only about 2 months. Please let us know on Friday what you would like so we can put it off to the side for you. We always try and keep our best dragons for our online customers. Thanks again
mike


Yes Sir I'm still interested. I'll have to make an order on Fri when I get paid. Are your dragons sexed? I plan on breeding this one with a german jiant so the larger the better. I want to produce the bigest healthiest dragons possible. Thanks again for your time

These are the e-mails i still have, I looked in my mail and it doesnt have the pics. I dont know how to find them. But when I get off in the morning I will take some new ones and post them.

 

[Lucille]

nowhere in the ad does he state that all of the clutchmates look like the pics. He is wholesaling the animals at normals price if you buy 10 or more. Unless he specifically told you that the animal you were receiving was bright yellow, there is not much room here for a real complaint.



BTW...the pics look like they have been retouched to make the ones shown look more yellow. That is just my opinion of course but I look at a lot of pics.

Sorry, I disagree. If as you say the ad said: Whole Sale colorful bearded dragon SALE; and had a pic of a bright yellow dragon, it looks like an express warranty by description has been made; here according to the UCC 2-313:
Any description of the goods which is made part of the basis of the bargain creates an express warranty that the goods shall conform to the description. Any sample or model which is made part of the basis of the bargain creates an express warranty that the whole of the goods shall conform to the sample or model.

Here, a bright yellow dragon was pictured; and it seems to me that was to entice people into buying the dragons and that they would not receive normals, but rather dragons conforming to the picture provided.

If most in the clutch were 'normal' looking, wouldn't a better practice have been to show normal pix and have a few people pleasantly surprised?

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

Sorry, I disagree. If as you say the ad said: Whole Sale colorful bearded dragon SALE; and had a pic of a bright yellow dragon, it looks like an express warranty by description has been made; here according to the UCC 2-313:
Any description of the goods which is made part of the basis of the bargain creates an express warranty that the goods shall conform to the description. Any sample or model which is made part of the basis of the bargain creates an express warranty that the whole of the goods shall conform to the sample or model.

Here, a bright yellow dragon was pictured; and it seems to me that was to entice people into buying the dragons and that they would not receive normals, but rather dragons conforming to the picture provided.

If most in the clutch were 'normal' looking, wouldn't a better practice have been to show normal pix and have a few people pleasantly surprised?

I could not agree more with the statement in bold Lucille. I agree that , by my standards, the animals were not fairly represented. The language of the ad is vague though. The use of the term "colorful" is very subjective. It definitely sounds like the ad was worded that way for a reason. Discussion about the specific animal being sent was not part of the ad either.

It sounds like it is a moot point though since the thread starter has stated that the ad he purchased from was far more specific.

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

Please understand that I am not condoning anything the seller did or said in the ad....I am simply stating that the wording leaves the buyer with very little legitamate recourse.

 

[Lucille]

Please understand that I am not condoning anything the seller did or said in the ad....I am simply stating that the wording leaves the buyer with very little legitamate recourse.

An express warranty can be made by picture; I believe the buyer has recourse if his dragon is completely normal looking, because of the wording along with the picture of the bright yellow dragon provided as advertising. The UCC governs the sale of goods in every states except Louisiana; and the UCC coupled with strong consumer statutes in many states which allow recourse often without huge litigation expense, there is a growing trend to enforce consumer rights.

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

An express warranty can be made by picture; I believe the buyer has recourse if his dragon is completely normal looking, because of the wording along with the picture of the bright yellow dragon provided as advertising. The UCC governs the sale of goods in every states except Louisiana; and the UCC coupled with strong consumer statutes in many states which allow recourse often without huge litigation expense, there is a growing trend to enforce consumer rights.

We will have to agree to disagree on this one Lucille. It is most assredly not a case I would like to have to make to a small claims court.

 

[D Dragon]

Wow, I sure didn't expect there to be so many responses! I wish I still had a copy of the orig. ad I tried to go back via e-mail but it said that it had expired. The original ad i responded to was for one sunburst(dragonsden bloodline) Bearded Dragon. and in prior conversations I was told of how colorful he was and that he was the brightes yellow they had and so on so on. I don't really know how to persue this guy or even if i should. Maybe I should just settle for a healthy dragon. The thing that sucks the worst is how much we were looking forward to a yellow morphed dragon.

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

assredly = assuredly.....damn spellcheck!

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

Wow, I sure didn't expect there to be so many responses! I wish I still had a copy of the orig. ad I tried to go back via e-mail but it said that it had expired. The original ad i responded to was for one sunburst(dragonsden bloodline) Bearded Dragon. and in prior conversations I was told of how colorful he was and that he was the brightes yellow they had and so on so on. I don't really know how to persue this guy or even if i should. Maybe I should just settle for a healthy dragon. The thing that sucks the worst is how much we were looking forward to a yellow morphed dragon.

Chris

My original comments were based on the current ad. The situation would be different based on the ad you are describing. It definitely sounds like misrepresentation based on your description of the original ad. I still think requesting a partial refund is your best bet. Send him a couple of current photos with the request and see if he is inclined to be reasonable.

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

Do you have pics of the animal in question Chris? If so, post them when you have a moment.

 

[D Dragon]

Im trying to figure out how to. they are in the document folder here at work but i dont know how to get them here. it wont let me cut them and paste them on the reply box

 

[D Dragon]

When I offered to send him photos the reply was he wouldn't look at them because he knows what he sent me

 

[D Dragon]

alright best i could do for pics, im sure its the hard way, its the only way i know,
1.- go to snapfish.com
2.- email is [email protected]
3.- password is dragons
4.- go to photos, he is dynamicdragons012

 

[clarinet45]

I agree that you were misled in the ad, will all the high yellow dragons pictures and i agree that they look doctored and they are horrible pics. When buying just one, i would have asked for an individual pic.

 

[D Dragon]

Hey thanks for the pic. Im a computer moron. Well as you can see he doesnt even start to even think about being yellow

 

[kmurphy]

Just curious. With the emails and doing business with this guy. You never got his full name? I wouldn't but from anyone that wouldn't give me his name.