"mike" BD ad on Kingsnake.com

[D Dragon]

Sorry I meant refund not reward

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

My whole reasoning for starting this thread was not to get into a money war! Of coarse I would like my money back, I got ripped off, who wouldn't want the satisfaction of a reward and the chance to further seek out what I was originally looking for. A Yellow Dragon. I just wanted everyone interested in buying a bearded dragon to be aware of this scam artist lurking on kingsnake and who knows where else, waiting for you to send your hard earned money into an empty pit. I don't know about the rest of everyone else but I work hard for my money(firefighter/EMT=low pay) and 75 dollars might not seem like a lot to you but by the time I saved up 75 dollars plus the 50 to ship the dragon my reptile money was gone. So god forbid I actually believed I found a good deal of a highly colored yellow dragon for 75 dollars. And all this about the ad for the lot of dragons for 100, This was not placed on kingsnake until after I bought my "common" dragon. The ad was for a sunburst dragon (dragons Den bloodline) for 75 dollars.

Chris

No one is saying that you are not entitled to some adjustment on this. It would be much easier to throw out a quantified idea of how much if the original ad were available and there was proof either way on the number and type of pics, if any you received. Unfortunately, neither of you can supply that. A refund was offerred that made no sense for you. At my suggestion the seller has agreed to refund 1/3 of the purchase price and let you keep the healthy juvie you received. Do I hold him blameless in this?...absolutely not. But he has shown some measure of good faith in these two offers and it is up to you at this point to take one or walk away with no measure of having reached a somewhat equitable solution.

It is what it is at this point.

 

[Lucille]

At worst this is a "shades of gray" situation

There appears to be a difference of opinion here. And THAT's the value of the BOI. Future buyers can come to their own conclusions about this seller.

I got ripped off ..... I just wanted everyone interested in buying a bearded dragon to be aware of this scam artist lurking on kingsnake and who knows where else, waiting for you to send your hard earned money into an empty pit.

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

There appears to be a difference of opinion here. And THAT's the value of the BOI. Future buyers can come to their own conclusions about this seller.

Fair enough.

 

[dragonman22]

Ive done nothing but try and remedy this problem from the very beginning and I can do nothing more. I refuse to lose money because this man is cheap. The offer for a full refund upon arrival of the dragon still stands and I can do nothing more.

The reason why 1 dragon I listed for $75 and 5 for $100 is to entice people to buy more than one since I have very limited space and wanted to sell them in quantities. The time period between the two posts was also along the lines of 3-4 weeks. The next clutches were coming and I had extra dragons. All that means is that someone was going to get a good deal on ten dragons. Its called "wholesale." Not to mention all the dragons from that clutch were sold already.

Everyone just assumes I'm some scumbag trying to rip this guy off. That couldn't be farther from the truth. His demands are just unreasonable. The man sorted through a list of dragons for sale for prices ranging from $75-300 and chose to be cheap. If he wanted a "BREEDERS QUALITY" dragon then it's ridiculous to expect to pay anything less than $300. These dragons are exactly what they are advertised to be. Even in the pictures that he's provided it's obvious that these are not "normal dragons." These dragons have great genetics and are being sold at pet'store prices and he has the nerve to complain. The best are the people agreeing with this man! You sell him a dragon you think is worth $75 and we'll see how happy he is! He got exactly what he payed for! To go out of your way and slander me on his website is a disgrace. He needs to grow up and stop expecting for things to be given out for free in life.

Finally, to address the conspiracy theories. I owe nobody money. I have a total of 4 adult bearded dragons which I can easily afford. I would never need anyone to lend me money for my hobby. I don't middle man, my dragons bang out in my house thank you very much. If you're that interested, I'll make you a home video. I don't middle man dragons like some kind of ghetto drug dealer. My reptile room is stocked with up to date equipment and home built cages. To accuse me of middle-maning bearded dragons is an insult and I;m very curious to find out where this information came from. Feel free to post it because I'm positive you have a case of mistaken identity.

The real lesson to be learned form this is that some people will never be happy. Pay $300 for a "breeders quality dragon" and its too expensive or not up to par, pay $75 for a colorful pet dragon and now I'm ripping people off and being ridiculed by bitter women on some website when they just make assumption instead of doing the time to consider both sides equally. The reason that all the well educated people on this website aren't bitter towards me is because most of them sell dragons for what they are worth. They wouldn't give you one of their brightest yellow dragons for $75. They also must have some understanding that it's impossible to have all bright yellow dragons. The dragon sent had the most yellow coloring of all the dragons left. Thats a fact. The dragons pictured might have been sold, but these were siblings with similar coloring. I can't keep every dragon that isn't breeders quality, WHICH IS WHY THEY ARE ALL SOLD FOR $75 EACH. Some people got great deals, and some got what they payed for. The dragons sold were most certainly not "normals" and to say they are from one picture provided by the buyer is clearly bias. Obviously some people have been ripped off buy dragons online but I truly believe I've been conducting sound business. If the man payed $150-$300 I'd agree that he got ripped off, but the fact of the matter is that I sold the dragon for what it is worth. I've done everything in my power to try and make him happy.

I just want to thank those people who have taken the time consider my side instead of joining the witch hunt. Theres no witch here, sorry to disappoint, just a hobbyist whose getting a bad rap from a penny pincher with too much time on their hands. I never know someone would do all this over $75 but I'm sure its not over yet. Gnite!

 

[dragonman22]

One more thing, maybe this man needs a lesson in good dragon keeping. Vitamins, UV lighting, heat etc. I had the dragon and that picture posted is how they look when they are cold and also begin to lose color when not given a close enough UV source. I'm going to take more pics tomm of my dragons, babies and adults, and you'll see exactly where your dragon came from and then this can be ended. Any suggestions on how to take a better picture for you guys would be great. I don't try to make them fuzzy, they'd probably sell better if they weren't. gnite!

 

[D Dragon]

>Hi
>
>I attached two pics of the parents. The pure sunbursts we had up earlier this summer are all gone. The mother we acutally sold to someone down in maryland so we no longer have pure yellows right now(we regret it now, since people loved those). The father is the bright yellow dragon and he is from dragon's den. The mother we got off someone on kingsnake. We were told she is a sandfire/hypo red cross. She lacks distinctive color, but her babies do show some orange/red coloring so we assume she is atleast partially sandfire/ hypo red. What %, I can't answer since we did not buy her from a breeder directly. The father is the same for the pure yellows vs the sandfire cross, so that is why they look similar but the pure sunbursts were much brighter in their yellow coloring. If you look at the ad, the 3rd pic is a good example of how these are not as yellow but do show some orange and red color instead. I'm about as honest a seller as they come so as to not have any unhappy buyers. We are not professional breeders but we have had bearded dragons as pets for over a year now. We also have had in the past many different reptiles and snakes so we are not total amatuers either. As for a warranty, we guarantee the dragons arrive alive and healthy. If they do not, we ask for you to ship it back (as proof) and we will send you another one or refund your money, whichever you prefer. 3 days after you receive the shipment, they are then your responsibility and we no longer feel responsible, which Im sure you understand. We ofcourse are always willing to answer questions and help if any problem does arise. We'll let me know what you think and if you are interested because I have gotten a bunch of emails about these dragons so I do not know how much longer I will have a large quantity available.
>
>Mike

Hey mike, this look familiar? This was a respose to a "friend" for the current add on kingsnake. PURE YELLOW/ HUH i THOUGHT JUST A MINUTE AGO THESE WERE PET STORE QUALITY, NO GOOD, BOTTOM OF THE BARREL, PENNY PINCHER DRAGONS?

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

When I had an issues with color when I first got into Dragons, I was very disappointed by a breeder & the "Snow" he sent me. I understand that babies are difficult to tell what they're going to look like when full grown (particularily the "Snow" lines), so I was patient with the breeder (and he with me) while I waited a month to see if he would lighten up.

When I was not pleased with the outcome, the breeder immediately offered a full refund & the opportunity to keep the dragon (whom by that time I had become very attached to). I did decline the offer (I felt guilty keeping him & receiving a full refund), but did request a discount on a future purchase. I received an amazing deal from him on a pair of Red-Orange dragons, whom have colored up amazingly. I will be dealing with this breeder again. He was more concerned with ME being happy, then loseing the money on the sale.

I realize not everyone will treat their customers in the way I was treated, but it's something to consider when you are worried about your reputation. More people are prone to pass on negative information about a business (which is obviously seen on the BOI if you compare "good guy" & "bad guy" posts) then positive.

I must say however, that little hatchling that was received does not show a hint of yellow. The breeder picture also looks doctored (speaking from experience as a Graphic Designer & "computer geek"), but that also could be from odd lighting in the enclosure which would create a more yellow hue.

 

[D Dragon]

iM SORRY IT WAS PURE SUNBURST, NOT JUST YELLOW

 

[ravensgait]

Chris seems a number of people here have confused your deal with that current add.

Lucille you seem to be one of them that is well confused ...

I have to agree that there doesn't seem to be any real bad guy in this deal and without the original add???

Mike you really need to put more info in your adds and make them clear. If your willing to refund the 25 bucks to settle this I hope Chris will accept that and let this issue go. Good luck guys..Randy

 

[D Dragon]

You know what I'm over this, Mike keep your money, I don't need it. All I wanted was a sunburst dragon, If I wanted money I would have kept mine in the first place. My suggestion to you is to take that 25 dollars and put in the offering plate this sunday, because people like you need all the help you can get! It would prove pointless for me to sit here and call you the stuff id like to,not to mention the fact id just move down to your level! In one of your previous posts you stated dealing with guy makes me want to quit all together, I hope its true, then no one else will get screwed. As far as for everyone else, no matter what your opinion is or who's side you have chosen, THANK YOU. It is great to know there are other people out there that care this much about reptiles and their owners. Later

 

[Lucille]

Why are you on the BOI, Lucille? I can only imagine what you might be "collecting".

I am here because the very purpose of the BOI is so people can recount their experiences both good and bad; and then the next person has more information to go by. If post when they feel they have been a victim of an unfair business practice, others can recount their own experiences.

Usually as I can see in this case, it was my stupidity to respond to the ad in the first place.

.

Well, perhaps so. But I do not think, by implication, that all people who respond to ads should be so described; this buyer to me has a genuine issue and he should be welcomed to have his day here in the BOI.

There were genuine differences of opinion on the incident and resolution here; the very process of developing different perspectives here serves to educate readers so that many of them can take away the experience of all involved and hopefully use what they have read to help them when they in turn look to make purchases.

 

[kmurphy]

I believe the buyer and seller have left the building.
IMO there's no sense in rehashing posts which will only serve to take away from what has been a somewhat informative BOI thread.

 

[dragonman22]

Hey Chris, if i said the things I want to I'd probably be in jail so your empty threats are pointless. You played very well on the sympathies of people on this site. So you know I'm not quitting, I'm just going to avoid poor people like yourself who are trying to get things in life for free. YOU NEED TO GET A JOB THAT PAYS MONEY SO YOU CAN STOP BEING SO CHEAP!! ANDDD STOP WORKING JOBS THAT REQUIRE NOTHING MORE THAN NO LIFE AND THE OBVIOUS CONCLUSION THAT OTHER LIVES ARE MORE IMPORTANT/VALUABLE THAN YOUR OWN!!! Watching TV all day waiting for an old lady to fall down the stairs or a kitchen fire to get out of hand while watching TV with other emts/firefighters isn't exactly "hard work" so don't portray yourself as "Mr. Blue collar.", or me as ripping off "hard earned" money, you sit there and wait!!!!! or realize that poor people don't live in the same houses as rich people for a reason!!!! HELL, GO TO COLLEGE!!! I'm sure you haven't from your obvious ignorance. Then $100 wont seem like your all your money and you'll realize that to the rest of the world, its chump change and buys you exactly what you got: an addition to your hobby, not a lifetime investment!! Or at least I hope $100 isn't a lifetime investment for a 29 year old "man." In fact you got a good deal which is why it's so amazing that you have a following of penny pincher's and 18 year old girls who haven't had a date their entire lives, that back you up blindly, only because they too feel as though they deserve the best in life but only want to work and pay for mediocre things, stop complaining, get a real job, and then your whole life wont be worrying about how you can buy your next $100 disappointment!! GROW UP! Unless you think petco deserves to be sued for "ripping" people off because they don't sell "breeders quality" bearded dragon morphs for $75, then you need to grow up and realize that you must work for the things you want, not expect free gifts or to cry until you get your way. I'm not a conspiracy theorist like yourself, but if I was mine would be that the pictures you've been using aren't the dragon you received, or are taken under the worst possible conditions in order to prove your point.... whatever the case, i pity the dragon i sent you because you'll prob be to cheap to feed and take care of him properly. I'll pray for him, Friday night and Saturday morning....not sunday! Honestly Chris you need to pull you lip over your empty head and swallow. Lucille good luck meeting a man. All others... I'm done, Thanks, goodbye!!!


PS. don't talk to be about donating money on sundays to me, I probably donate more in a week than you do all year Mr. cheap/poor EMT!!! Keep clipping those coupons!!!

PPS. Try starting in community college if you're thinking of combating your stupidity. I don't want you suing a state school for being too expensive when the same classes were sold at comm college for less.....That is your theory right?

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

Hey Chris, if i said the things I want to I'd probably be in jail so your empty threats are pointless. You played very well on the sympathies of people on this site. So you know I'm not quitting, I'm just going to avoid poor people like yourself who are trying to get things in life for free. YOU NEED TO GET A JOB THAT PAYS MONEY SO YOU CAN STOP BEING SO CHEAP!! ANDDD STOP WORKING JOBS THAT REQUIRE NOTHING MORE THAN NO LIFE AND THE OBVIOUS CONCLUSION THAT OTHER LIVES ARE MORE IMPORTANT/VALUABLE THAN YOUR OWN!!! Watching TV all day waiting for an old lady to fall down the stairs or a kitchen fire to get out of hand while watching TV with other emts/firefighters isn't exactly "hard work" so don't portray yourself as "Mr. Blue collar.", or me as ripping off "hard earned" money, you sit there and wait!!!!! or realize that poor people don't live in the same houses as rich people for a reason!!!! HELL, GO TO COLLEGE!!! I'm sure you haven't from your obvious ignorance. Then $100 wont seem like your all your money and you'll realize that to the rest of the world, its chump change and buys you exactly what you got: an addition to your hobby, not a lifetime investment!! Or at least I hope $100 isn't a lifetime investment for a 29 year old "man." In fact you got a good deal which is why it's so amazing that you have a following of penny pincher's and 18 year old girls who haven't had a date their entire lives, that back you up blindly, only because they too feel as though they deserve the best in life but only want to work and pay for mediocre things, stop complaining, get a real job, and then your whole life wont be worrying about how you can buy your next $100 disappointment!! GROW UP! Unless you think petco deserves to be sued for "ripping" people off because they don't sell "breeders quality" bearded dragon morphs for $75, then you need to grow up and realize that you must work for the things you want, not expect free gifts or to cry until you get your way. I'm not a conspiracy theorist like yourself, but if I was mine would be that the pictures you've been using aren't the dragon you received, or are taken under the worst possible conditions in order to prove your point.... whatever the case, i pity the dragon i sent you because you'll prob be to cheap to feed and take care of him properly. I'll pray for him, Friday night and Saturday morning....not sunday! Honestly Chris you need to pull you lip over your empty head and swallow. Lucille good luck meeting a man. All others... I'm done, Thanks, goodbye!!!


PS. don't talk to be about donating money on sundays to me, I probably donate more in a week than you do all year Mr. cheap/poor EMT!!! Keep clipping those coupons!!!

PPS. Try starting in community college if you're thinking of combating your stupidity. I don't want you suing a state school for being too expensive when the same classes were sold at comm college for less.....That is your theory right?

Well.....it's nice to see we have ended this thread on a couple of articulate professional, mature posts from both buyer and seller. Based on the last back and forth exchange between them, this thread has just dropped below my "I could give a crap" minimum level.

See ya folks!!!