Bad Guy Mike Matson of Mike's Phat Frog is a scammer !!

[tcp2]

Finally, a logical, well out post on the whole subject. Yeloowtang hits the whole crazy nail on the head. Why can this not go away? Everyone involved needs to take a deep breath and end this. Mike is doing the best he can to make this right. I have dealt with Mike in the past with no problems. There may even be some confusion over the past dealings alluded to in some of the posts. His son is named Mike. Some of the bad past deals could easily have been done by his son and blamed on Mike. I have had major problems with his son , but I am not on here blaming Mike and threatening him to try and get the money back. Separate person, separate issue. The money offered originally for the frogs is never going to happen. Take back the remaining frogs and get as whole as possible on the deal. I have had lots of purchases and sales go South, and this is not the way to solve them. The longer this goes on, the worse everyone involved looks. Somehow this nightmare needs to end.

 

[312Herps]

Notice it's the people who "don't have a bias" , but are seemingly siding with Mike who are just saying to take the frogs back and are mostly people who have less than 20-30 posts , mostly new accounts probably no trader rating ... Hmmm Ironic

and the people who see that Mike is wrong and are telling him so are people who are well established on the forum , have trader rating and Karma and have been here longer than this thread has been up.

Mike is and will continue to be trash , if you decide to do business with him , good luck. I don't want Mike's frogs nor do I care for his half witted threats, I just know situations like this make me lose confidence in this hobby and it's patrons to uphold the honesty of what's right and wrong in this hobby. Thanks for immense amount of support from REAL personalities in the industry not fake accounts that have been messaging me about Mike and showing support. That's why you remain pillars in this industry. If you reread this post you'll realize I conceded with getting the money from Mike early in this post because I knew he was scamming me. I'd even be willing to take $1,125 HALF OF WHAT HE OWES if he sent it this week via paypal or direct deposit , how's that for "all he cares about it the money" since Mike says they aren't worth $100 each (even though I know and he knows there were frogs in there worth $200-300 being 300+ grams) let's say they're worth $50 each which is what Mike prices froglets. Keep in mind I bought these frogs from Mike almost a year ago raised them and sold him back HIS FROGS ! So $1,150 what now Mike ? ... let's hear the excuses.

 

[yeloowtang]

I hear you Rick and that did cross my mind, but i didn't bother to mention it simply because there's no way to prove this ?? all speculations.. one would think that Mike would have only purchased the 4 big ones to breed them since he had ne use for the smaller ones ??

and one could also say you don't want them back because you knew some were sick or could be sick... but again, all speculations..

maybe they (4) just didn't ship well ??

I think you should just take the frogs back, i would hate for you to lose the animals and the $$ too.. you seemed to trust him enough to send the frogs before getting the $$$ and you had purchased from him before.. unless it's really to late to just step back, try to talk to mike about an understanding for the $$ probably too late now..
but you should just take the animals and sell them, forget about all this stress and move on..

let this BOI do it's job for future

but don't lose out on all fronts..

how many BOI post have we all read in the past, be it breeding loans or sales gone bad.. i think the breeding lones are the worst, some will never get their snakes back either sold or right out stolen.

you at least have the chance to get them back..

 

[yeloowtang]

and for the reccord Rick, it's because i don't have a trader rating here that it means i don't understand.. been dealing with reptiles for almost 15 years now, i'm in Canada and this site is mostly US base.. great info here and many good lessons to be learned..

the reason why you should just take them back is so you don't lose everything..

if not too late , it would be great to make amends with Mike, but if getting $$ back is not possible, don;t lose it all

 

[yeloowtang]

meant to say it's NOT because i don't have a rating here

sorry about that

 

[serpentgirl23]

The way I see it, this is a messy situation that could have been handled better on both ends.

The frogs should not have been shipped before some sort of payment was made. Also, imo, if the buyer couldn't afford them, he probably shouldn't have even attempted to buy them (especially if he was behind already in rent/other things as he said) or at the very least should have made some sort of payment towards them given it has been months (that would probably mean selling off other things) if he had the intention of keeping them. At this point, I am thinking probably not, because if he was serious about keeping them, he would have found a way to pay his debt or at least some fraction of it.

I would have leaned more towards the Mike if he had wanted to ship the animals back within 24/48hrs heck perhaps even 7days of receiving them or something along those lines, especially if they had come in sick as he had mentioned. Even more so with some sort of vet bill/diagnosis (forgive me if I missed that post/evidence). But 2-3months later is just a bit ridiculous imo.

If I were Rick, I would be hesitant in wanting them back given who knows what has happened to them while in Mikes' care. IF Rick were willing to have them returned there is a high risk of something possibly happening to the animals in shipment, having to quarantine the animals (for gosh knows how long), paying for any medical bills/vet care, potentially buying new enclosures, and there is a possibility that some may not make it and/or put the rest of his animals/collection at risk. That is a gamble I personally I would not want to take at this point.

 

[yeloowtang]

all valid points Stephanie and i fully agree with all of them..

but at this point, Rick is most likely not getting $$ for the frogs

put yourself in that situation, would you rather lose the $$ and the animals or at least get the animals back

I would rather se Rick not lose on both fronts.. I know how he must feel and it sucks.. but at least he has a chance of getting them back, many other lose it all.

I've had my share of odd dealings in the past, people backing out of a purchase, people wanting to return an animal because they couldn't care for it. having to return a deposit when it was clear it was non-refundable but they cry they have no $$ for food or rent !! only to see them post something else they got on facebook and to dumb to realized they friended me ??

but in the end i feel there's a diference between being right and doing the right thing.
i've had people come back months later and buy for more $$ because they appreciated me returning the deposit at that time ..

who knows , maybe Rick can send Mike one last PM and try to find an understading ?? nothing is impossible

i just hope Rick doesn't lose it all..

 

[juliasara]

I agree that it would be interesting to know why Mike wanted to pay more for the frogs ?? but in no way do I see Mike as a scammer or a thief


Do we know for sure he was really paying more for the frogs or was that just another one of Mikes attempts to make himself look like a good guy? I know nothing about frogs and what they are worth plus we have never seen all of the frogs so when I see proof that he was really paying more then they were worth I'll believe that.

 

[serpentgirl23]

I also agree with your points Stephane. I guess am also thinking that perhaps he could have wanted to fund another project or something (all speculation of course) with that money. Now he would have to postpone that and potentially have to pour more resources into something he thought was sold in order to sell it again. I guess/think I would be upset too. I hope this gets worked out soon.

 

[juliasara]

That first paragraph is supposed to be a quote. I'm not sure why it didn't work.

 

[jrsexotics]

I will address why I offered to pay more for those frogs. Many that know me and raise frogs for me know that the following is true.

I produced the frogs that rick sent me. I always pay more for my own stock back. It's a way of saying thank you for holding onto these animals and offering them back to me 1st before anyone else.

As far as what has died. The original male in the pic and 3 juvie size frogs.

Rick you can post on here all day long. It only helps me.

You have dealt all of your cards. Now it is time to deal mine.

Your x girl Stephanie and a few others also will deal there cards too.

Only a matter of time brother

 

[Kristi23]

I find it funny that so many are blaming the OP for sending animals to an established business/breeder before getting paid. I've only done wholesale twice, but I had to send the geckos first and then got paid after the animals were received. I do agree that they should have been at least partly paid for before shipping and it's sad that no one can be trusted anymore.

Neither person has looked great in their postings, but Mike has come across looking way worse in my opinion. I would never deal with him now and would not recommend him to others.

To me, it's not just about the money. If I was in the situation and I knew someone had some sick animals, I would not take them back. Also, if Rick really did get rid of the enclosures because he had the sale (which has been over a month now), why should he have to go spend more money because someone failed to pay for what they bought?

In most cases, I would say take the animals back and call it a day. But I feel this is a little different. The whole thing sounds weird to begin with and I wouldn't trust Mike at all at this point.

And Mike, maybe you should try to work things out instead of having it your way or no way. You are the one who didn't pay for animals you had shipped to you. You are in the wrong and should be trying to do the right thing. It would do a lot for your reputation which is dropping with every post you make.

 

[jrsexotics]

I did everything that I could. Rick didn't want to wait 2-3 weeks longer for payment. So, because of that the animals can go back.



This isn't a debate. The 100s of customers that buy from me and the larger commercial wholesalers that deal with me know me...

Rick personally attacked me and now he will be dealt with thru an attorney

I find it funny that so many are blaming the OP for sending animals to an established business/breeder before getting paid. I've only done wholesale twice, but I had to send the geckos first and then got paid after the animals were received. I do agree that they should have been at least partly paid for before shipping and it's sad that no one can be trusted anymore.

Neither person has looked great in their postings, but Mike has come across looking way worse in my opinion. I would never deal with him now and would not recommend him to others.

To me, it's not just about the money. If I was in the situation and I knew someone had some sick animals, I would not take them back. Also, if Rick really did get rid of the enclosures because he had the sale (which has been over a month now), why should he have to go spend more money because someone failed to pay for what they bought?

In most cases, I would say take the animals back and call it a day. But I feel this is a little different. The whole thing sounds weird to begin with and I wouldn't trust Mike at all at this point.

And Mike, maybe you should try to work things out instead of having it your way or no way. You are the one who didn't pay for animals you had shipped to you. You are in the wrong and should be trying to do the right thing. It would do a lot for your reputation which is dropping with every post you make.

 

[pitontheprowl]

I did everything that I could. Rick didn't want to wait 2-3 weeks longer for payment. So, because of that the animals can go back

If you did everything you would have paid your debt that you agreed to on the time you agreed to. Thats the bottom line. I already said Rick was stupid for shipping but he evidently did it in good faith. You blew that when you failed on your end.

And remember my cards are Aces and Eights, always.

 

[jrsexotics]

If you did everything you would have paid your debt that you agreed to on the time you agreed to. Thats the bottom line. I already said Rick was stupid for shipping but he evidently did it in good faith. You blew that when you failed on your end.

And remember my cards are Aces and Eights, always.

Money doesn't grow on trees.

He could have easily taken the animals back and sold them elsewhere.

There is nothing else to it.

Everyone enjoy reading this circus act.

 

[juliasara]

The threats and excuses and blaming others just make you look even worse mike. Like I said before if I were rick the ONLY way I would take the frogs back would be if you had each one checked by a vet at your expense and the vet gave them all a clean bill of health, you paid for new enclosures for all of the frogs, paid for the time he's going to miss work to receive the frogs and some sort of compensation for having to wait another 2 months for the frogs to be out of quarentine before he can even attempt to sell them. You made a deal with rick, he shouldn't have to suffer because of your inability to keep the deal. I'm sure if you were in his shoes you would expect the same from whoever you made a deal with that couldn't keep their end of the deal up.

 

[juliasara]

Money doesn't grow on trees.

He could have easily taken the animals back and sold them elsewhere.

There is nothing else to it.

Everyone enjoy reading this circus act.

You ate the only reason this "circus" exists!!! If you had just put on your big boy pants instead of clown pants and paid what you owed him this post never would have been started.

 

[jrsexotics]

The threats and excuses and blaming others just make you look even worse mike. Like I said before if I were rick the ONLY way I would take the frogs back would be if you had each one checked by a vet at your expense and the vet gave them all a clean bill of health, you paid for new enclosures for all of the frogs, paid for the time he's going to miss work to receive the frogs and some sort of compensation for having to wait another 2 months for the frogs to be out of quarentine before he can even attempt to sell them. You made a deal with rick, he shouldn't have to suffer because of your inability to keep the deal. I'm sure if you were in his shoes you would expect the same from whoever you made a deal with that couldn't keep their end of the deal up.

Actually I am currently in his shoes with a man who bought a retic from me on payment plan. Lost his job after his deposit. I told him to take his time. That I am in no rush and to pay me when he can.

I have held the snake for over an extra month.

Rick wants to be an A hole that's ok. I don't have to deal with it. Take me to court rick. I know many people that are trying to serve you but can't seem to find you with those fake address you use as your own.

Game on

 

[jrsexotics]

Actually I am currently in his shoes with a man who bought a retic from me on payment plan. Lost his job after his deposit. I told him to take his time. That I am in no rush and to pay me when he can.

I have held the snake for over an extra month.

Rick wants to be an A hole that's ok. I don't have to deal with it. Take me to court rick. I know many people that are trying to serve you but can't seem to find you with those fake address you use as your own.

Game on

Many people have sent stuff like this to me about rick

 

[Lucille]

Game on

A suggestion for both: Lose the extra testosterone. A year from now when people read this thread, they won't be caught up in the current drama, they will be looking to do business.
They will want to see good stuff about shipping, packing, and how the deal went. Factual bad stuff about how the deal went may have a negative impact on their purchase plans. The extraneous posturing is just going to weigh against each of you.
Pen your replies from that perspective.