Bad Guy Mike Matson of Mike's Phat Frog is a scammer !!

[hhmoore]

I hate using a tablet sometimes - seems I frequently don't catch its corrections until after I submit the post. It's easy enough to figure them out in this case, though.

 

[hhmoore]

Listen here rick. You bring my daughter into this again and we will get personal. You really do not want to piss off a person that you don't know.


Your a 5 6" little troll. I know what you look like and we will have our day in person and we will see how much of a man you are then.

Had I read a few more posts, I could have spared the effort effort of posting that warning...you pushed your luck too far, Mr Matson. Threats are simply not tolerated here.

 

[EdwardK]

They were all healthy with photo proof !!

A simple point of fact, the photos do not prove or disprove that the animals were in fact healthy or free of parasites. It only confirms that the animals appeared to be healthy and were alive when shipped. It cannot be assumed that they were in fact free of parasites. This is a claim that cannot be supported or denied by either party when pictures are the only source of proof. The only animals you can be 100% sure don't have parasites are those that are necropsied and have histopathology as proof.

A second point of fact, the back and forth over quaratine and vet certificate needs some points of clarification as well. Most of the common pathogens of frogs are microbes that are commonly found in the environment and the bodies of the frogs as well as virtually all other pet amphibians and even fish and reptiles. Consequently these are typically referred to as "opportunistic" and can cause disease whenever the animal is stressed which could as an example be due to changes in husbandry regime, temperature exposure, breeding, shipping and other factors. Additionally there are more than 20 different bacteria that have been attributed to cause "red leg". "Red leg" in and of itself is nothing more than a symptom as it is also occurs with infection by some viruses....
As a result, a quarantine does not guarantee that an animal is in fact healthy, nor does conducting fecals guarantee that an animal is in fact free of parasites, it only demonstrates that no parasites were detected at that time. As a result there is a greater chance to catch a pathogen or parasite before it can infect the collection provided that parasite or pathogen isn't already active in the collection.

The only tests you can utilize with a good chance of clearing an animal or animals are PCR tests for specific organisms like chytrid or ranaviruses.
So the claims that new enclosure are required etc are really without merit when the bigger picture is considered.

Now those points does not excuse Mike from upholding his end of the deal and it certainly does not excuse this many pages of back and forth between the two parties. Neither side is acting like a person who I would consider reputable enough to purchase from or to whom I would sell animals as a result of this thread.

Ed
Ed Kowalski

 

[EdwardK]

As a result there is a greater chance to catch a pathogen or parasite before it can infect the collection provided that parasite or pathogen isn't already active in the collection.

Should have read as As a result with quarantine there is a greater chance to catch a pathogen or parasite......

Ed
Ed Kowalski

 

[juliasara]

He said he already got rid of the enclosures, it's been a fee months, so I don't find that hard to believe. I never said he needed new enclosures because of disease, I said it because he no longer has them. I also agree I really don't think I would feel comfortable doing business with either party but I still firmly believe that no matter what Mike still owes rick the $2250 he agreed to pay him.

 

[4FineFrogs]

I just know from personal experience I will never again do business of any kind with Mike Matson and associates, for exactly those reasons why he was banned (yet again).

 

[Black Adder]

Its about time this farce was ended, nice job Mods!
The only thing this whole thread has done is to ensure that virtually NOBODY will ever do ANY business with Mike or Rick again.
That on its own is a small mercy!

 

[4FineFrogs]

*Just to be clear, when I said "and associates" I was referring to associates of Mike; I was not referring to Rick (I don't have Geks).

 

[Fangthane]

The only thing this whole thread has done is to ensure that virtually NOBODY will ever do ANY business with Mike or Rick again.

If only we lived in such a utopia. Were the masses truly interested in only dealing with those who've consistently shown integrity in all of their dealings, Mike's previous threads should have been more than enough to convince any sensible person to avoid him. Sadly, most people only truly care about their own little piece of the pie.

An alarming percentage of those who will read this thread simply won't care about anything other than what they might stand to gain by dealing with him, as has clearly been shown by those who've chosen to stand up in support of his actions. There are some people--Rick included--who actually seem to gravitate toward the shadier crowd. I'm sure he knew just what Ariel and Mike were all about before he decided to hop into bed with them, yet he had no problem with those associations until they negatively affected his own bottom line.

Fakebook also supplies a steady stream of dupes who will never know what kind of person he really is--at least, not until it's too late. This thread isn't likely to make a whole lot of difference in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Lucille]

A suggestion for both: Lose the extra testosterone. A year from now when people read this thread, they won't be caught up in the current drama, they will be looking to do business.
They will want to see good stuff about shipping, packing, and how the deal went. Factual bad stuff about how the deal went may have a negative impact on their purchase plans. The extraneous posturing is just going to weigh against each of you.
Pen your replies from that perspective.

The game is on rick. I'll see you in court you little cockroach

I hope it felt good to pen that reply because you will be paying for it for years in terms of lost biz, IMHO.

 

[Black Adder]

Sorry if I sounded like the eternal optimist but I suppose you are right Dan
What it SHOULD do is warn sensible people to steer clear but yes greed seems to get the better of even the best of people nowadays
Moreover a sad reflection of the society we now live in.....

 

[snared99]

I have ordered hundreds of pacmans from mike in the past months, and have had little issues, and what has arose he has had no issues fixing it. There was a issue were a order of 120 frogs was unable to be filled 50% due to a employees screw up with tads.

To make up for this mistake, mike sent a shipment of over 40 animals for free, to make up for the delay. Mike has always had excellent communication with me, always is set to pick up the phone and chat. He is a good guy in my book, and wont hesitate to work with him in the future

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Yeah!!

And it doesn't matter that he keeps making up names and starting new accounts or if he has problems with anyone else.


It's OK that he used

User Names

heatherm
heathersreptiles
HersNhisssReptiles
LadyReptile
reptilemike01
willow star
mattsreptiles
[email protected]
mikesmammals


Names on account

Heather Martin
michael devins
Fran Callan
James Androess
And of course is own name on several blatantly bypassing his ban.


Threads
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=184291
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=240282
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=284892
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152330
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=158659
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=200747

It doesn't matter that he used two false aliases to make up a thread about a individual here
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=280595

or threatened other members.

It doesn't matter how many other users he has threatened, how many aliases he has used, how many rules he breaks on this site, or anything really.

As long as he takes care of me, THE HELL with anyone else!

 

[DanSB]

Has Mike delivered sick animals and refused to make it right? Has Mike knowingly harmed or abused any of his animals? Has Mike maliciously taken in frogs and refused to pay after receiving them? Has he taken money and not shipped? Regardless of the impressions others are getting I just don't see it when reading through here.

He broke the rules here and as such was banned. This is the right thing to do.

He acted very unprofessionally when insulted (and it is clear he was insulted professionally and personally which was not called for). I will never hire him to represent me in a professional manner. I would be buying amphibians that eat worms and think their shed is a delicacy.

I personally think he has quite a bit of honesty and integrity (just my opinion from meeting him once, reading this thread and a few others so I'm still willing to admit I'm wrong if something comes up). The problem ofcourse being an excess of testosterone and an inability to take insults professionally.

I'm not convinced these make him morally reprehensible to the point doing business with him would make me a dupe, a sucker, or otherwise a bad person.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

He acted very unprofessionally when insulted (and it is clear he was insulted professionally and personally which was not called for). I will never hire him to represent me in a professional manner. I would be buying amphibians that eat worms and think their shed is a delicacy.

I personally think he has quite a bit of honesty and integrity (just my opinion from meeting him once, reading this thread and a few others so I'm still willing to admit I'm wrong if something comes up). The problem ofcourse being an excess of testosterone and an inability to take insults professionally.

I'm not convinced these make him morally reprehensible to the point doing business with him would make me a dupe, a sucker, or otherwise a bad person.

As far as that point, I would consider making up a thread about a person also in the same business and using a couple of aliases to harm that person's business reprehensible.

Some people think it's a good business strategy to create an alias then give themselves positive feedback with that alias on a business review site. Some of us think that it's unethical.

I would also state creating a classified ad with one alias in the classified forum and then respond to that ad with another alias pretending to sell to yourself also questionable.

I guess we could all look at that as just violating the rules of this site.

 

[Fangthane]

I personally think he has quite a bit of honesty and integrity

If you've actually taken the time to read the links in the post directly above yours, and are still willing to continue to stand behind Mike, I guess we'll just have to take it as meaning that your own moral compass is as far off as his. You may find that there's a--saddeningly small--percentage of people who will read your endorsements and decide you may be covered in the same fleas as the dog you've lain with. Or maybe I'm just overly idealistic.

Think on this: If someone can't even be counted on to use their own identity while conducting business, how far should they really be trusted in any type of business setting? If they have a documented history of dishonest, illegal, by-any-means-necessary practices, what possible context do you have to see them as a habitually do-right kind of person? It's really as simple as that. Sure, you may deal with him and be lucky enough to have pleasant transactions. It's the documented history justifying the big, hanging what-if that should be more than enough to make anyone steer clear. I think that those who continually strive to do the right thing are much more worthy of patronage.

 

[DanSB]

Dan, Dennis,

I admittedly did not read the threads linked above. I saw the newest one was from 2011 and assumed with nothing between there is a good chance they no longer represent his current business or activities.

I am a bit of an optimist and like to give people the benefit of the doubt that they have improved over time.

Hopefully the worst I can be accused of is being an optimist. And my endorsements having to do with character and service level maybe should be looked at skeptically. I am far too forgiving and nice there.

I am a sob when it comes to animal health and quality though...

I will read through some of the older posts and reevaluate my position. Also to be 100% honest Mike is the only breeder that will sell to the public I could even find that has any kind of variety for PAC Mans and or Giant African Bullfrogs...

 

[4FineFrogs]

I would rather deal with someone with proven ethics and business practices, who has rightly earned the trust of both purchasers and sellers, than throw blinders on to the bald faced facts just because a breeder/broker/whatever has a greater variety of stock in whatever specie...

 

[snakesareawesome]

So we've got two guys fighting over a beginner's species of frog that are common as dirt... ya I lost interest before I hit the end of page 1.

 

[Lucille]

So we've got two guys fighting over a beginner's species of frog that are common as dirt... ya I lost interest before I hit the end of page 1.

What a dreadful, elitist comment. Whether someone's actions are right or wrong should not depend on the price tag of the critter