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mitch behm aka behmfamily aka mitchell s. behm illegally selling snakes

I live in California and this is one of my favorite species.
First Note:

I think it is absolutely ridiculous that they can not be commercially bred or sold. Captive propagation of the species would reduce the wild take by those interested in keeping them, and a lot of people are interested in this species.

Second note:
I believe even ridiculous laws need to be followed. They should be changed, but they also need to be followed.

-=-
Now - some notes on native species.

With a permit, you may breed up to three non-commercial species. Breeding stock has to be legally obtained, which means either you are gifted the stock from a legal source or you legally collected it yourself.

There is is cumulative limit of 30 specimens that includes captive bred. It might also include wild caught for commercial species too, I need to get that clarified. IE - because I do have 4 wild caught Cal Kings, it is possible that I am only allowed to have 26 non commercial specimens (as the 4 wild caught cal kings are non commercial even though their young can be commercially sold).

No more than bag limit may be from the wild. Any in excess of bag limit must be captive bred under permit.

For example, I have six California Alligator Lizards. Bag limit is 2. I am allowed to possess more than 2 only because I have a permit and it is a species I'm specifically breeding in that permit, and only 2 were taken from the wild.

If I decide to stop breeding, I am required to reduce it down to possession of 2, as even though the additional specimens are captive bred, I am only allowed to have more than 2 because I have a permit to breed and it is a species I am breeding.

Limit is per person, not per household.
IE - last year, I gifted four alligator lizards to my little brothers. Two to one and two to another. Receipts indicating gift including address were passed on to Fish & Game. Now that those brothers have two, even though they are captive bred, they can not possess any additional until they get breeding permits themselves. Commercial is a bit different - I gifted a captive bred kingsnake to one of my little brothers, he can still collect 4 from the wild even though he doesn't have a permit to breed. He's not going to collect any, but he could.

F&G makes no distinction between captive hatched/born and captive bred. IE if you use your single bag limit on zonata to collect a gravid female zonata, the hatchlings are captive bred as far as the state is concerned, and can be used in a captive breeding project.

If you collect a gravid specimen and you do not have a breeding permit, you have 45 days to reduce yourself down to bag limit. You can get a breeding permit after the fact though and the 45 day thing then no longer applies - if you are approved for the permit. That's what I did with my Alligator Lizards. F&G knows that four of mine are captive hatched and that I did not have a permit when they hatched, but since I was granted a permit before the 45 days was up - I was allowed to keep them as captive produced specimens that are part of my breeding project for the species.

I do not work for F&G and nothing I've said here should be considered official. I have asked questions, and read the regs, and what I wrote is my understanding.
 
I did not know any species other than kings, gophers and rosys were covered under the captive propogation permits.

Do you actually have it in writing that you are allowed to keep the alligator lizards and zonata in the numbers you mentioned? That would be cool. I have no desire personally to work with zons but I do have a fondness for the alligator lizards. Do you have a particular person at FandG with whom you could put me in contact so that I could explore this further? PM me if you like.

thanks
 
Mitch, I was reluctant to state anything about the raid at your place because of Peta's involvement but man those are some sickening videos and photos coming out of your place.

Since you were on here yesterday, I don't suppose you would care to address what is going on?
 
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