Mites and filth are free with Ray Goushaw Herpetological Breeding Research

[shrap]

Regardless, if they are fact, I still think he ought to get some lice-bedding spray and apologize and remove this post.

Do WHAT??????

The seller sends mites to his customer WITHOUT informing him of the condition beforehand, does a crappy job of packaging, does not communicate shipping and the BUYER owes an apology?

Wow, some people never cease to amaze me. You are either a very good friend of Ray's or one of the biggest trolls I have ever seen. And definately somone I would ever do business with.

 

[pch101]

"Regardless, if they are fact, I still think he ought to get some lice-bedding spray and apologize and remove this post."

I agree that he probably should get some lice-bedding or some other treatment for mites now. However, the post cannot be removed. Once here, it is here for good.

"Jim: Your introduction in your last post was a bit offensive, so I do not wish to communicate with you on the matter and you also utilized my words of the smell of the poop to convey that my thought are that the buyers deal was not significant to him. "

Ok, I understood the first part of the first sentence (Jim was mean, so you do not want to talk with him anymore), but in the world are you trying to say in the last part of that sentence?

"I believe the buyer had a dealing with mites and overreacted and should do what he can to remove this post as it can be misconstrued by anyone, especially you, who have misconstrued my words.
__________________
Dan "

I do not see how his post is an overraction in regard to having mites sent to him, and again, there is no way he can remove that post...

 

[pch101]

My second paragraph should have said: but, what in the world...

 

[Mike Greathouse]

Again, I said that "mites are common and can be treated with lice-bedding spray." I did not say that I think "how common you feel mites are within our industry."

Dan,
Are we splitting hairs here. When you stated "mites are common" could that not be construed by any reasonable individual to mean that you believe "mites are common within our industry" Or is it somewhere outside of our industry where you believe these these mites exist?

I also disagree with the statement:

I suggest that since mites are the most common ailment with snakes

I don't believe that mites are the most common ailment with snakes. What are you basing this on - you're own experience? Many people keep snakes for years without any mite problems . Certainly someone purchasing an animal from a respected breeder, such as Ray Goushaw should not expect them within the shipment.

And this speculation you refer to is a counter to everyone believing the buyers words and repeating his words without having yet heard from the seller.

Yes, you're correct - we absolutely need to hear from Ray. But there is nothing that Ray can possibly say to discount the pictures provided of the shoddy packaging job shown here.

I firmly believe that Ray is an honest breeder and would never have allowed a shipment to go out like this had he been present. Unfortunately, this does not change the fact that in his absence, this shipment did go out and the buyer has every right to be upset.

I am not trying to argue minor points with you Dan. I feel that when it's all said and done, we are on the same side. I just don't understand you're take on this one.

I suggest we all just let it rest until Ray has the opportunity to set everything straight, as I'm sure he will.

 

[RyanT]

I always think it's funny when people throw around the "I would never do business with you" threat. I bet at least 90% of the time that's completely pointless to point out. How do you even know if that person deals with animals you have any interest in and if you would ever even have a reason to communicate on a "business" level? Sounds like an attention grabbing, false-sense-of-power trip.

 

[shrap]

I always think it's funny when people throw around the "I would never do business with you" threat. I bet at least 90% of the time that's completely pointless to point out. How do you even know if that person deals with animals you have any interest in and if you would ever even have a reason to communicate on a "business" level? Sounds like an attention grabbing, false-sense-of-power trip.

Yep you got me dude. I don't say stuff becasuse that is how I feel, I just like the attention and sense of power it gives me, lol.

 

[Dan Scolaro]

Shrap: I have not done business with the seller and do not know him except from viewing many of his helpful and considerate posts on other forum to help people he does not even know, so your accussations are wrongfully insulting. And I am not a reptile business person, however a hobbiest for 30 years. Your statements are based soley on the words of the buyer, and like many others, you have not weighed the other side of the story before condeming the seller.

pch101: I used the term big whoop to describe that the snake may have pooped in the bag and it not that too uncommon. Jim misconscrewed in his post to use those same words as if I thought this transaction was not a big deal. And as to the mites, there are tens of thousands of shipments that go in transit each week. If every shipment that had mites was posted on this forum, there would not be sufficient space to handle so many complaints.

Mike: Well I have a large collection and treated hundreds if not thousands of snakes for heath problems for over 30 years, however once or twice a year I see mites here or there more often then I see other ailments. Just my experiences and I cannot speak for others.

 

[shrap]

Dan,

I have not condemned the seller, argued against him or came to any conclussions on this deal. I have only argued against your view points on this matter. Nothing else.

 

[Dan Scolaro]

Shrap:

You said and I quote:

"The seller sends mites to his customer WITHOUT informing him of the condition beforehand, does a crappy job of packaging, does not communicate shipping".

That is what is called "condeming the seller." any which way you look at it.

And of course the seller did not know the snake had mites and to think or convey otherwise is absurd and misleading. How do you know how it was packed? From what the buyer said? Ha, that is a one sided story. There could be a million other ways this happened bad but lets not guess. How do you know if the box was kicked or not? The seller gave the airbill number. What there anything else to provide? No. So what is the beef here. I see no meat in this product of accussations.

Now everyone is entitled to their point of view on the matter. Personally, I have received snakes with mites and washed them off and gave a little spray of lice-bedding spray and went on with life and never even bothered the seller with such a trivial matter. Now that's "my perspective" and I have the right to feel that way about it, so condeming me for my views is useless if not funny.

 

[shrap]

Again Dan,

I was responding to YOU SAYING,

Regardless, if they are fact, I still think he ought to get some lice-bedding spray and apologize and remove this post.

The key there being that I disagree with you if you believe the buyer is in the wrong even if he is presenting the facts correctly. If he is presenting the facts correctly then the seller screwed up. But according to your post is does not matter even if the buyer is correct in his facts. To me it does matter.

See the difference, Dan?

 

[critical bill]

I wonder if Ryan ever married Amber Schindler. She was the gal he almost sold an animal to and decided she deserved a "good gal" post on the BOI. Ya got some good replies to that one eh Ryan?

Yep you got me dude. I don't say stuff becasuse that is how I feel, I just like the attention and sense of power it gives me, lol.

 

[Dan Scolaro]

Shrap:

Well, you can analyze what you said anyway you wish, and as long as you desire, however your statement before was about him not me.

And I understand that you feel differently about it, and knew that the nanosecond I read your first post, so no need to remind me of it as if I have no memory.

I am content to believe that mites are not such a significant issue to make a public display post about the incident, especially in-light that the seller offered a refund. People do not agree with me and that is fine. However, are these same people who do not agree willing to submit that they have seen thousands of transactions and would resist from crapping their pants if they saw mites? Hum.

Now go out a purchase another snake from someone else and tell em you discovered mites. They may allude to tell you how to treat them vice offering an immediate refund. Looks to me from what the buyer said that the seller went beyond the normal practices of this business to satisfy a customer and as such is not deserving of this thread.

Just my view on the subject. No bashing required or requested if you do not agree. Just have a feeling that the seller is a good man that had an unfortunate occurrence not deserving of this public scrutiny.

 

[shrap]

Shrap: Well, you can analyze what you said anyway you wish, and as long as you desire, however your statement before was about him not me.

Uhhhhhh, no. My statement was a DIRECT rebuttal to YOU about YOUR opinion in YOUR post. Period. I damn well know WHO I was directing my statement to and about. Which was YOU and YOUR opinion.

 

[Zoo Supply]

You guys are off on .....

another tangent.

Can anyone argue that animals should be sent as healthy as possible? NO
Can anyone argue that the "right" thing to do after a screwup is to offer a refund? NO
can anyone argue that the animals should be treated for parasites before simply based on the thought that it is good business and health practices? NO, Look at IBD, one of the main vectors is mites, why would we even think of bringing a mite infested animal into a collection at all....even with quarantine, something like IBD can still be a factor.


Once again, you guys all get off the main point of this post.
A customer got an animal that wasn't shipped right and it wasn't to their satisfaction.

I made a mistake like that before, by sending a ball python baby to someone that was underweight. I was in a hurry and shipped it without giving it a thorough look over. I gave a refund and let them keep the snake because that was the right way to help fix my screwup. It didn't make the deal right, it simply eased the pain a bit.

My thought is, send the snake back, and get your refund. No one knows Ray's side of the story because he isn't here, but as long as the animal and a return falls into Ray's Terms of Service, take advantage of it. That is why it is there.

Good luck,

TOM

 

[Dan Scolaro]

Shrap:

Again. You wrote:

"The seller sends mites to his customer WITHOUT informing him of the condition beforehand, does a crappy job of packaging, does not communicate shipping"

You can look at it a million ways you want to, and your dead wrong a thousand times over - you condemed him once and now your in denial of your own words and chicken to admit the truth.

However such, you made a mistake, I pointed out that you made a mistake, and vice accepting this, you have positioned to try and condem me.

So now you have condemed two people for no good reason. Who else you have in mind?

 

[Mickey_TLK]

While I agree that shipping an animal with external parisites is definately not a GOOD THING, I think were going a bit to far in saying the importers should treat every animal for internal parisites.

I would like to ask how one expects this to be accomplished without at minnimum rising import costs and slowing the process down. At maxim this could shut down all imports.

What do you suggest the importers do, shot gun treat every animal that comes in? Should they also hold back and treat them with the proper follow up treatments, or is hitting them once with everything under the sun enough?

Blanket "shot gun" style treatments of parisites is ineffective at least, and dangerous on the other extreme. What about the risks of creating resistant "super" parisites by not properly and fully treating for parisites.

I guess Im just trying to show another side. By saying what I have I am NOT trying to minimize the fact that a snake was sent here with mites. Im just asking how far you guys expect the importers to go here.

 

[shrap]

Look at the posts, dude. It is plain and simple...... for most of us anyway. I have made it perfectly clear (for most of us anyway) what I said and who I said it to.

I also already stated that if all of the facts are true as the buyer states, THEN YES THE SELLER SCREWED UP. How is that being a chicken? That is stating exactly how I feel.... TWICE NOW.

As far as me condemning you..... no, you did that all by yourself.

 

[shrap]

Hey Mickey,

Tim wrote in the original post that is was a captive bred snake. I do not think anyone expects to get mites with a captive bred snake.

Now when seeing an ad for imports I think we all know the possibility is there, but not with captive bred. At least I don't.

 

[Mickey_TLK]

Shrap

I missed that part, but the statement I made was in responce to Daniel and Tom not to this snake in particular. Even with captive bred animals, internal parisites are a risk that HONESTLY cannot fully be ruled out in 99% out of the animals sold. Heck take the lowly bearded dragon. They naturally harbor coccidea but in large amounts it becomes an issue.

Again sending a snake with any external parisites is obviously BAD for business and not something ANYONE would like to recieve. I myself have had mites sent to my business 7-10 times this season by some of the biggest names allong with smaller private breeders. Every time it happens Im PISSED and it definately ruins a day (or two or three depending on the situation).

Do I believe that Ray has things to answer for here, yes. Do I believe its acceptable to ship an animal with obvious parisites NO. As for the shipping box, as someone who has made TONS of homeade shipping boxes, Im definately not going to fry him on that one. Heck I almost miss my rigged boxes at times (generally when Im trying to find one or two extra inches in the standard boxes...LOL). I dont think a box has to be pretty to be effective. That said do I like to recieve used cricket boxes as shipping boxes NO.

 

[Dennis1]

Ahem...

The Fact of the matter is the snake was sent late, infested with mites and with a CRAPPY shipping box <---- Pun Intended
But the real kicker is He left on Vacation and left the mite infested snake untill he gets back
I hope none of those mites find theyre way to the rest of the collection

So who ever wants to defend those practices i say let them!
In the very Least i will know who not to buy from
Also who can i talk to about getting one of those lil smileys to dig a hole
It would be perfect for this thread