Bad Guy Nathan Tow-Arnett TERRIBLE

[bobtard]

You're making yourself look pretty awesome, Nathan.

 

[akonitony]

You're making yourself look pretty awesome, Nathan.

Hey, at least he stands behind himself with his b'ness...

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Ed Clark the gecko was not DOA not sure where you read that ? and FYI Long Term Captive means I bought the gecko as a fresh import several months ago and she has been in my care for that duration of time, while purchasing a recently caught animal from the wild is called a Fresh Import, just to clarify those terms for you.

Hmm, dosing a animal with panacur and keeping it alive for couple months is playing extremely lose with term LTC. Frankly, I think it is abuse to the designation and downright deceitful. Just to clarify those terms for you from the perspective of many.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

*lose

loose

 

[Nathan Tow-Arnett]

Dennis Hultman yes your right to the extent it's borderline LTC but what would you classify her under? With sikorae because of the high mortality rate of new imports a sikorae kept longer than 6 months is considered by some a fair amount of time or at least borderline when referring to sikorae as LTC. I mean I could have said the exact months I had her instead and I will in the future if it is something you and others think is deceitful. What I got from what Ed Clark was saying was how I got her and turned around sold her right away, where that was not the case. She was dosed twice and thrived in the months there after and I have no doubt that if I would have kept her she would live on for many years.

Akonitony - what is b'ness? Honestly I'm not catching what that means?

 

[Nathan Tow-Arnett]

Dennis I completely agree using the term LTC is hard to gauge being everyone has their own opinion what LTC means. For animals that are hardy species anything under 2 years I would not consider a LTC, but others might. Fragile species about a year and especially more I would consider LTC, again other would not. Also I suppose some people would differ in what LTC means to them given the species. I used the term only to give a perspective that she had been captive for some time, not to try to be deceitful. In the future I will try and be more precise on the time frame.

 

[Lucille]

Seller:

It seems you are playing both sides of the field when you underscore that this lizard is so delicate that a flash from a camera could send it spiralling towards its demise, yet with no qualms you stuffed it in a box in 40 degree weather and sent it USPS, which is notorious for taking longer than expected especially during the holiday season.

Add to that your fast and loose play with LTC nomenclature, and the result is someone who is outstanding at playing spin doctor, but a poor seller of reptiles. I would not buy anything from you.

 

[Nathan Tow-Arnett]

Lucille - the buyer added stress upon a stressed animal he acknowledged seemed stressed. Adding stress upon any stressed animal I'm sure you can agree would not be advisable and when you add the stress of handling and picture taking upon a stressed sikorae yes that is a remedy for disaster. The buyer should have tried to minimize her stress and not take pictures right away. If he thought she was ok enough to handle the stress of taking pictures but died several days later, wouldn't that say even more so shipping wasn't the problem?

Sikorae are not so delicate they can't be shipped in 40 degree weather even with 2 day shipping without thriving afterwards. Yes they are more stressed than overnight shipping but with proper care and regard to minimizing stress they rebound just fine.

I hope that makes things more clear for you.

 

[Lucille]

Lucille - the buyer added stress upon a stressed animal he acknowledged seemed stressed. Adding stress upon any stressed animal I'm sure you can agree would not be advisable and when you add the stress of handling and picture taking upon a stressed sikorae yes that is a remedy for disaster. The buyer should have tried to minimize her stress and not take pictures right away. If he thought she was ok enough to handle the stress of taking pictures but died several days later, wouldn't that say even more so shipping wasn't the problem?

Sikorae are not so delicate they can't be shipped in 40 degree weather even with 2 day shipping without thriving afterwards. Yes they are more stressed than overnight shipping but with proper care and regard to minimizing stress they rebound just fine.

I hope that makes things more clear for you.

It is crystal clear that you are offering up a plate full of hot steaming BS. No thanks.

 

[Nathan Tow-Arnett]

Lucille sorry you couldn't comprehend. You must not work with sikorae?

 

[Nathan Tow-Arnett]

Just some points I saw in his rant and I'm not grabbing at straws like he claims just pointing out facts.

Lotusracer said "From your accounts, death in transit does seem to follow you quite a bit closer. With that much experience in death, one might learn better with that experience." Yeah it's called not using heat packs and always get animals hold for pickup. He must have forgot when I said that earlier? I have had more animals replaced by sellers because of heat packs and a couple I had to replace myself from a roasted reptile. Heat packs are a gamble in my opinion. I have received many reptiles over the years in 40 to 50 degree weather and have had more DOA from heat packs than without heat packs.

Lotusracer said "Everything that comes in gets checked for mites." So instead of quarantining her letting her get ajusted to her new surroundings, he checked for mites the day of? Thoroughly checking for mites on a sikorae under those flaps of skin is some intense handling they don't particularity like. Or I bet he just didn't check her THAT well right?

Lotusracer said 'handling'+'quickly'+'death' leads to a gross misstatement about animals that can make it from the wild through the import chain, retail market, and into your homes. Suggests to me that a two-day trip could be fatal." Handling a stressed sikorae can quickly lead to death, yes, and he claims she was stressed but still chose to inspect for mites the day of and take pictures. He must not be aware stressed sikorae sit still like she is in his photo, especially since sikorae don't sit like that during the day.

Lotusracer said "Many happy reptiles here including uroplatus. It's amazing, all of them happy and healthy" As if he would say otherwise???

Lotusracer said "The seller is supposed to ship to the addresses specified by the buyer; you didn't even do that." Lotusracer gave me two shipping addresses and I told him which of his addresses I shipped too. Lying now to better your argument I see

Lotusracer said " I don't actively handle my animals and the handling they DO receive is on par with what any other keeper does to maintain their animals." So your implying all keepers that get an animal that has been in two day transit take pictures of it right away with obvious sign of stress like you claim?




Lotusracer you never said she wasn't healthy when you received her, but now you do? Changing story now?

Died several days later, but now shortly thereafter and soon after? Changing story again

I have shipped and received two day shipping in 40 & 50 degree to myself and friends. No problems here, not sure what experience others have had or are you going off of theory?

Lotusracer USPS is an incompetent courrier? So have I just had a great streak of luck until now? If only I could have this luck at casino! Except I don't gamble, maybe I should???

Of course lotusracer you claims it to be only temperature related because if you didn't and admitted you made any mistake you wouldn't have an argument.

 

[jmwboas]

Nathan, Can I please ship you a sikorea the exact way you shipped this one? If it dies I will keep your money and ignore the situation for a few days. And then attempt to blame you for your recently imported sikorea dying. Sound good Bub?

Try putting yourself in the buyer's shoes with every transaction. If you wouldn't like it done to you, they probably won't either.

Needless to say, If I start working with sikorea I won't be dealing with you. I can deal with any hiccups during a transaction(even dead animals, missexed, you name it) as long as the CUSTOMER SERVICE is on par. Things happen in transit and what not, but you still failed the buyer.

 

[Lucille]

Lucille sorry you couldn't comprehend. You must not work with sikorae?

Dude don't even go there. I do not have to have special knowledge to know that days in a tiny box with no heat tips the scale over a flat second of a picture flash.

 

[Nathan Tow-Arnett]

Lucille you might want to read everything I said. It's apparent you didn't

 

[Nathan Tow-Arnett]

jmwboas she's not a recently imported sikorae to where I wasn't aware for a length of time the health of her. Now maybe I pay more attention to detail and have studied them closer than the average keeper, but yes if you shipped me a sikorae and I could see problems I made that didn't help her situation and she wasn't dead within 24 to even lets say 48 hours, I wouldn't be contacting you asking for my money back. I have shipped sikorae to friends and to myself at other addresses with two day shipping in the conditions to see what would happen and thus far I haven't had any problems and that's cold weather to cold weather. So of course I didn't show concern, all my sikorae used as test subjects thrived just fine after. Now why does the buyer have a problem when she was shipped from cold to warm several days later? Now I can see where the buyer is trying to say this is what caused her demise and yes it is possible but where I see crucial mistakes he made doesn't warrant him a refund and being she died days after being shipped. Way back in the day when I first started working with sikorae I made many the mistakes the buyer did and they definitely played a part why the sikorae died and that was with perfect overnight shipping, I wasn't trying to get a refund, I learned from my mistakes since there was much detailed information out on them yet. Now he is oblivious to his mistakes and is for certain it was the shipping, but from my point of view it's not 100% evident it was solely shipping, not even close.

 

[jmwboas]

Its funny how you say you have shipped them in those same conditions to "friends and yourself at another address". Are these friends willing to come here and verify these shipping results? I noticed you never stated shipping them to a BUYER that was 100% happy with those results. It sounds as if you have done alot of these shipping trials, Do you have any proof to back these claims that everything works out 100% of the time?

If Im not mistaken, you didn't ship to the agreed terms. That alone should warrant a FULL refund from you asap. I thought fedex was supposed to be used with overnight and the FACT of the matter is, it wasn't used. Am I correct on this?

 

[Nathan Tow-Arnett]

jmwboas I'm guessing you sell some of your boas? I believe I can reasonably assume you take great pride in the boas you offer for sale? Especially if your a specialized dealer and not a broad scaled imported like some but not all. I have had gotten great animals from some broad scaled importers, but back to my point, is you sell me an nice boa and days later I contact you saying it died do I get a refund without offering to send you pictures? And then later you can obviously see mistakes I made regarding the health of the boa, reassuring you I'm not warranted a refund. But even if you felt bad for me and was thinking of giving me a refund because it's only 150 bucks but you were too busy at the time and by the time you could really get a chance to talk to the person they bad mouth you on here. See the point?

 

[akonitony]

PM sent to avoid going OT

 

[Lucille]

Lucille you might want to read everything I said. It's apparent you didn't

Nice. First, it is 'Oh you don't work with those lizards'. Then, it's 'Well you didn't read everything'. You must have excuses on speed dial

Shipping a live lizard in 40*f temps without a good heat pack is normally a death sentence.

His failure to use 1 of the 2 shippers that you requested caused the death of the lizard. shipping express mail in the cold is always risky.

He failed, he owes you a full refund!

Yeah.

 

[jmwboas]

No I don't see the point. When I sell a boa, it goes into a container with my name, email and phone number on it. I can be reached at anytime by people buying my quality boas for questions, concerns, any of the sort. You can atleast spare 5mins to let them know you are tied up at the time but will be in touch. Hell you could do that while taking the browns to the super bowl nowadays, phones and laptops go everywhere, ya know?!

Also, I would have asked for pics and proof that the animal is what the OP was stating. I mean seriously, you can't say to the op, please show proof?

Now get back to my previous post. You seemed to skip over most of it. Evading, often comes after deciet.