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Need opinions on a bad deal with Tim Bowles of Arboreals of the Rainforest!!!

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Ok...I have read this WHOLE post, and I think it is appalling that anyone would so blatently scam someone. I am terribly sorry for you ,Matt, but I am even more sorry for that poor snake. It breaks my heart to see her that way.

I have seen many bad reptile cases in the few years I have worked for a vet, and I always feel ANGRY when I see them. Most often the problems arise from husbandry issues, but this case case goes beyond that. It is just flat out animal abuse!

Tim should definitely give a full refund including shipping to Matt. In my opinion, he should also reimburse Matt for the vet bills.

Hey Rob, Thanks for the input. I am not going to totaly screw Tim out of his money but maybe I will wait to pay for it until it is big enough to breed ? What do you think of that ? anyone ?
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I think you should also keep a running $$ total of every food item you have to feed her to get her up to breeding size. That should be deducted from the amount you pay Tim. You could even figure the cost of housing her for 2 years without any babies being produced and no way to recoup your expenses for those 2 years. OOOPS...I guess Tim wouldn't get very much out of that $600, would he?

If it's at Tim's house again I wouldn't plan for a big turnout.
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You aren't kidding about that one. I don't care if I was his neighbor, I certainly wouldn't show up!
 
A novel Idea

Its just a thought, and I do understand how NORMALLY this would be frowned on, but why doesnt the gentleman (Jim I think...lol...long post) send the 600$ he "owes" tim to Matt as a partial refund on behalf of Tim.

I know this is not a standard pratice, and I can see where the precident set by it could be frowned upon, but hell. If Jim(?) feels he owes tim that money, well, we all feel Tim owes Matt that money, soo why not.

Just my opinion

Mickey Hinkle
The Lizard King Reptiles
 
I love your idea, too.

It may not go over so well if Matt and Tim actually make it to court, though.
 
You know in my hast I didnt even think about the whole court issue.

Let me ask you this Matt, are you going to follow through with a lawsuit. If soo, then I doubt the idea would work, but if you honestly dont think you would, man it is an idea.

Mickey Hinkle
 
hmmmm

I've been reading with interest, as I had been hoping to see (any day now) that the seller in this fiasco has had a change of heart and decided to set things right, but alas, I fear that isn't going to happen.

I just wanted to comment on the most recent "suggestion" that Jim should send Matt the $600 for his troubles. Two wrongs will never add up to make a right. If Jim has issues with the animal he received from Tim, then it is his responsibility to deal with Tim, NOT Matt.... regardless if Tim said nasty things about Jim or not.

Unfortunately, Matt received one of the worst looking basket cases I've ever seen any have the unmitigated gall to put into a box and ship to someone else. Matt's "deal" and Jim's "deal" have nothing to do with the other. What good could possibly come from another thread on this board of how Jim took an animal and didn't pay for it? Do you believe a judge would look favorably on this as "justice"???? I can see how someone could see this as some form of payback, but it is not right nor will it ever be right for someone to take from someone because of some perceived wrong to a third party.

If Jim entered into a "contract" of sorts with Tim for this snake, he has many options available to him. He can offer to pay a reduced amount of money based on the failure of Tim to produce an animal as agreed upon. He can send the animal back, or he can keep it and pay the agreed price.... other than a couple of variations on these three options (accepting another animal for a reduced price, partial credit... bla bla bla, you get my drift) but THEFT isn't an option. If Jim keeps the animal and does not compensate Tim to Tim's satisfaction, he will be just as liable for what he has done as Tim appears to be for what he has done.....

As I said, two wrongs cannot possibly make a right.... Grandmaw was right....

Tom Townsend
 
I know, as I said it was just a novel idea. And I agree that a judge wouldnt look favorabley if he were to accept the payment owed tim, as a partial refund, as they are unrelated cases.

But I just had to toss it out there, couldnt help myself. Besides, how often do we really believe the situations end up in court, from either party. And like you said this is one of the worst deals I have ever seen too. Maybe a little self justice is in order.

I used to run a business and I do understand how wrong it is to suggest this option, but as a person, as a herper, I dont want to see tim get that money. Call it vengance.

Mickey Hinkle
 
Hey Guys,

The 'New Locale' female is still hanging in there but is not looking that good. I checked on her yesterday and she went through a very bad shed (big suprise huh?) and seems to be having a rough time of it. We (the vets and myself) have hope that she is the 'one in a million' animal that can survive and get through this ordeal. Everytime I think about putting her down I have the thought of, what if she could have made it and I killed her, so it is pretty tough to make the decision. I had this animal for a long time before I sold her to Tim Bowles and I had interaction with her almost every day and that makes it even harder.

I will keep everyone uo to date on her progress as much as possible!

Thanks for the continued interest on this matter!
 
Sorry but I feel I need to reply to the idea of Jim sending me money that he is suppose to pay to Tim. In this case I also am a firm believer of two wrongs don't make a right. I know it was mentioned in jest but I feel Tim owes me a refund and that is something he will have to pay directly to me and not through anyone else. This is the most horrific deal I have ever been involved with and I am just blown away to be on the receiving end of it. Thanks for the thought though and Jim good luck on your end!

By the way Jim.....Tim is back from vacation have you contacted him about the size of the snake yet and what if anything he will do about it? Please keep us informed.
 
Hey Matt, I am glad to see you are giving her a chance. I hope she does pull through this for your sake and hers. She has held on this long so maybe just maybe she will make it. I hope your are doing something about all this. There is no use in Tim getting by with this. That was cruel what he has done to her and there is nosence in it either. He needs to pay for what he has done to you and her. I hope you get him good! Just keep letting us know how she is doing. I know I cant wait to get home everyday just to see if you have posted anything about her. I am waiting on the day you say she is doing great and is going to make it. I hope that day comes soon. Good luck and keep in touch.

Shawn
 
Thanks Tom! Tim still has yet to return a phonecall or e-mail about this situation. Man it's unreal that someone would want to go out like this! He seemed like such a good friend too. I guess I should have known by some of the company he was keeping that there was a possibility this would happen. I sometimes wonder if there were maybe 1 or 2 more involved with him on this one. I'll find out sooner or later I guess.
 
Well Matt you know how it is, If you hang out with the bad you are going to be bad. Hopefully he will come clean soon. But the way it is looking he is not going to do that.
How is the girl doing today?
 
So sad

I have followed this thread from the beginning also and have nothing significant to add except to let you know Matt, that I have been holding your girl warmly in my thoughts and prayers.

I am happy that she is hanging in there, and hoping like everyone else that she does make it through this ordeal. Less than two months ago I had one of my dogs on deaths doorstep for over a week and he's just now getting back to his almost old self again. It was not a fun life experience to go through. Had I paid normal vet expenses we would have easily exceeded 6K in medical costs. His survival would have easily been worth that 10 times over to me.

In your last post you stated that before you sold her to Tim that you had nearly daily interaction with this girl...... anybody can think whatever they want about this personal observation of mine, but..... I firmly believe that "loved" animals exhibit the will to live and do indeed pull through some miraculous recoveries that have no other explanation. I'm hoping this girl falls into that category so that we can all celebrate along side you.

and..... I also believe in Karma...... Tim will be paying dearly somehow, somewhere, sometime for his very sad actions in this situation. For every action... a reaction.... right?! :)

Cathy Maynard
 
I have not herd from Tim, I think he said he was going on vaction for a couple weeks and today it has been a week and a half. I thought I would here from him after he read all this but maybe not. I think he thinks that if he stays out of it it will all blow away after time. LOL LOL LOL
 
I think Tim is not going to get a hold of anyone right now. He knows he has done wrong. He needs to make it right for both of you. Just dont hold your breath though. Hate to see something happen to yaw.
Matt how is the girl today? Hope she is doing better.
Good luck to both of you!


Shawn
 
Hey Jim,

Nothing so far that I would send out and feel comfortable doing so. I wouldn't want to be put in the same class as Tim so I will wait until I am absolutely sure of the animal I pick for you. This whole thing is a tragedy and I hear that he and a couple of his friends are enjoying every second of it. And I wouldn't expect to hear from Tim anytime soon! I would make sure you talk to Tim anout him covering the vet bills to check the animal and maybe he could give you a break on the price due to his 'misjudgement' on her size. Good luck!

Shawn,

She is sort of stable today with no big change except her skin is very wrinkley, a bit more than a couple of days ago.
 
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