Need opinions on a bad deal with Tim Bowles of Arboreals of the Rainforest!!!

[John Hedger]

This whole thing is a tragedy and I hear that he and a couple of his friends are enjoying every second of it.

That's wonderful Matt. I'll remember to call on Tim the next time I want to buy emeralds from someone with a junior high school mentality.

JHedger

 

[Ghi Reptiles]

Hey Hedge,

I just recalled another recent transaction Tim pulled off. He talked to me and asked my advice about the following:

He put a Basin up for sale and had a guy call up and buy it. The guy said he was sending funds and did right away. Tim got another call the next day I believe from someone else that wanted to paypal the funds right away. Tim asked me what he should do and I told him he had to wait for the guys money through the mail since he was the first to say he was paying for the animal and Tim agreed to sell it to him. Tim said what if it doesn't show and I suggested to give him a grace period. Tim said if he didn't have the money by the following tuesday he would sell the animal to the guy using paypal. Well I subsequently found out from Tim that he let the guy have it paying with paypal right away and what do you know the other guys money showed up that tuesday! Tim gave the poor guy the option to buy another animal and he did. The guy got shafted in the first place and that was wrong especially after my lenghty conversation with Tim about what is good business sense.

On another note...when I bought the New Locale female from Tim he still owed me $1,300.00 for a Male 'basin' I sold him. Tim repeatedly asked to buy this animal from me and I always told him that I was going to keep it. After I offered him a 'dark phase' male that he turned down because it was too much money he asked for this (Rico Walder) male again. It is an amazing animal and I felt bad so I said ok. Tim said he knew what I paid for the animal and he wanted it for cost. I ended up selling this wonderful animal to Tim for my cost (after I included shipping). Long story short....not only am I out this breeder size male basin but he never finished paying me for it since I got the shaft on the New Locale female! Here it is...I give Tim an animal at COST that I wanted to keep and what did I get in return....zilch. What a business!

 

[TimCoplan]

ETB...WHens tim getting back?

Has anyone been able to get in touch with Tim? When is he supposed to get back? How is the snake doing?

 

[Randy Bennett]

Sick new locale

I just heard from Matt about about the sick new locale
snake and I'm sure he will be on here shortly to post an update.
In the meantime, if you have bought a snake from Tim Bowles
within the last year.GET IT OUT
OF YOUR SNAKEROOM AND AS FAR REMOVED FROM YOUR COLLECTION
AS POSSIBLE.THAT SNAKE IS FAR SICKER THAN ANYONE THOUGHT.I'm sure Matt will be on here soon,
but in the meantime,quarenteen
any animal that came from Tim's
place immediatly!

 

[MSRHINOVIPER]

HEY MATT,
What is going on with her. It sounds bad. Please let us know. I havent been on much this weekend so i was trying to get caught up on everything and I seen this last post. It doesnt sound to good. I hope everything will be ok for you.


Shawn

 

[MSRHINOVIPER]

Hey Tim I see you are on here why dont you reply to all this!!!
Cant hide forever!

 

[Arboreals of the Rainforest]

Nice twisting King Lerer

He put a Basin up for sale and had a guy call up and buy it. The guy said he was sending funds and did right away. Tim got another call the next day I believe from someone else that wanted to paypal the funds right away. Tim asked me what he should do and I told him he had to wait for the guys money through the mail since he was the first to say he was paying for the animal and Tim agreed to sell it to him. Tim said what if it doesn't show and I suggested to give him a grace period. Tim said if he didn't have the money by the following tuesday he would sell the animal to the guy using paypal. Well I subsequently found out from Tim that he let the guy have it paying with paypal right away and what do you know the other guys money showed up that tuesday! Tim gave the poor guy the option to buy another animal and he did. The guy got shafted in the first place and that was wrong especially after my lenghty conversation with Tim about what is good business sense.

Nice try King Lerer, but both guys knew my policy up front.

The paypal guy is the guy you told me not to sell it to becuase you didnt like him. You had a beef with him and wanted me to screw him out of the animal. He was made aware of this as well.

The guy you say I screwed was sooooooooo unhappy he not only picked out another animal as a replacement he actually bought a second one from me.

Keep twisting lies King Lerer.

And as for your now pukingdark phase male you contacted me about before you went to buy it and offered it to me at cost because you wanted the others. (A grossly inflated $5000 cost tag) By the way you also told me you only paid $9500 for the trio of black granites. You screwed me out of that one becuase you saw bigger dollar signs in Tony Nicoli.

What we agreed to was that I would pay cost not the bloated $5000 that you tried to rape me for. You said you had to think it over because you knew your buddy Tony Nicoli wanted it badly. Before getting back to me you screwed me out of that animal and sold it to Tony for the real cost and a baby basin.

Great business ethics King Lere.


Nice twisting King Lerer.

 

[Sybella]

So, what's the news on the poor sick girl? After Randy's post, I'm on the edge of my seat.

 

[MSRHINOVIPER]

Me too! Well I am glad to see Tim has finally come out now maybe we can get his side on this. Since it has been going on for so long with out him.
Shawn

 

[Arboreals of the Rainforest]

Just for Jim.

Jim Scharphorn
Tree Boa For Life



Group: 100% Corallus
Posts: 531
Joined: Sep. 2002 Posted: July 05 2003,14:31


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
At the moment I do not have a pot to piss in.LOL ( not funny )

Quote
If you can put down a small deposit, I will wait.


Quote
I would like to have her but after buying the pair of basins I am tapped, and do not see any funds till around the end of aug.

Quote
Hey Jim,
I have no idea what she weighs. I only have micro scales for neos. Nothing that goes that heavy.

She will most likely breed this fall but the next for sure. I wouldnt hesitate trying her this season.

It's amazing how many folks want everything that I am not selling. I have been bombarded with emails asking for things on my site.

If you want her give me yell. I will saver her for you.


Quote
Tim, any offers yet on the female ? how much does she weigh do you know ? I remember her but cant remember how big she is. I am starting to shop for a female to breed this fall to my male.


--------------
What a life, hanging in the tree tops.

www.coolcrittersbylj.com


Jim Scharphorn

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Seems you knew before you got her that she might not be ready to go this season.


Remember these emails Jim. Well over 2 weeks prior to you getting her. With nothing more than your word in a written contractual agreement to either pay or work it off.

Lets not forget to mention that you actually saw and held her while you were at my house.

Long before you asked to buy it.

Kind of hard to misrepresent what you saw in person now isn't it Jim?

 

[Sybella]

Can we get back on track with the snake deal with Matt, please?

 

[Ghi Reptiles]

Great to see you here Tim, I guess your lawyers lifted the gag order LOL! I would keep them if I were you there are a lot of customers that are unsatisified with you right now. Now to your post that is full of BS:

"The paypal guy is the guy you told me not to sell it to becuase you didnt like him. You had a beef with him and wanted me to screw him out of the animal. He was made aware of this as well."

I actually told you not to sell the animal to 'Dan' who is a friend of mine...because it was bad business ethics to have someone send money and then in turn sell the same animal to someone else. We went over it and you said you wouldn't screw the guy and you would wait for his check until tuesday...then you sold it to Dan before tuesday. NICE ETHICS!

"The guy you say I screwed was sooooooooo unhappy he not only picked out another animal as a replacement he actually bought a second one from me."

Well when he reads my next vet report i'll bet he wishes he didn't buy any.

"And as for your now pukingdark phase male you contacted me about before you went to buy it and offered it to me at cost because you wanted the others. (A grossly inflated $5000 cost tag) By the way you also told me you only paid $9500 for the trio of black granites. You screwed me out of that one becuase you saw bigger dollar signs in Tony Nicoli."

Yes I did feed the animal waaaaay too big a meal and I paid dearly for it. BUt still nothing compared to the next vet report. The $9,500.00 tag you are giving the black emeralds is a bold faced lie by you but look at the company you keep.

"What we agreed to was that I would pay cost not the bloated $5000 that you tried to rape me for. You said you had to think it over because you knew your buddy Tony Nicoli wanted it badly. Before getting back to me you screwed me out of that animal and sold it to Tony for the real cost and a baby basin."

We actually never agreed to anything. You said I should give him to you at cost and I said no. Just like you said I should give you the Rico Walder male at cost and I graciously did......big mistake by me! Look what I got in return as partial payment.....a dead snake!

 

[Ghi Reptiles]

LAB RESULTS!

Here you go Tim! WARNING! EVERYONE PLEASE READ THIS!

The snake tested positive for PARAMIXO VIRUS Tim! Do you have any idea what that is? It is probably the most horrific disease this animal could have had. It is definately one of the deadliest diseases and ABSOLUTELY THE MOST CONTAGEOUS! Even more contageous than IBD! There is the possibility Tim that your entire collection had/has it seeing how contageous it is!

I STRONGLY URGE ANYONE WHO HAS PURCHASED A SNAKE FROM TIM BOWLES OF ARBOREALS OF THE RAINFOREST TO EITHER GET THE ANIMAL PURCHASED FROM TIM AWAY FROM YOUR COLLECTION OR IF IT IS IN QUARANTINE TO KEEP IT THERE AND CONTACT YOUR VET AND HAVE A PARAMIXO TEST DONE IMMEDIATELY! YES TIM EVEN YOU SHOULD HAVE THE REST OF YOUR ANIMALS CHECKED!

The virus can be contracted through fliuds from the mouth, fecal matter, urates, blood, feeding tongs, water bowls, handling, substrate, and the scariest of all airborn if the animal sneezes or coughs! Read up on the virus it is 100% fatal and has been known to wipe out entire collections in zoos and in the private sector.

Is this why you were selling your collection Tim? Now that you are here and have read all of this.....do you still think all of this occured during shipping as you and your wife told me on the phone? Do you still feel that a full refund including vet bills in not due to me? You endangered my entire collection...is that what you wanted?

I am VERY serious about the potential danger of people loosing their entire collections so take the proper precautions guys!

 

[Blackwater Reptiles]

OPMV (A cut and paste from Dr. Elliott Jacobsen's research on the virus)

I wanted to share a little information about how bad this is with the folks who may not be familiar with the virus. I received some animals about three years ago that were infected. The virus spreads rapidly and kills almost as fast as it spreads. My condolences on the loss of such a fine animal.


OPHIDIAN PARAMYXOVIRUS (OPMV)
History: Historically, gram-negative microorganisms including Pseudomonas spp., Providencia spp., Proteus spp., Salmonella spp., Aeromonas hydrophila and Escherichia coli have been the most commonly isolated bacteria from the respiratory tract of reptiles with clinical signs of pneumonia. Prior to 1976, relatively few viral infections of reptiles had been reported, and virtually nothing was known about viral infections of the respiratory tract of reptiles. In 1972, a respiratory epizootic spread through a collection of fer-de-lance (Bothrops atrox) at a serpentarium in Switzerland. Initially Pseudomonas and Aeromonas were isolated from the respiratory tract of dead snakes and the disease was originally thought to be bacterial in origin. Eventually a virus with morphological and biochemical properties of certain myxoviruses was isolated4 and was tentatively placed in the paramyxovirus subgroup.2
Since its first description, ophidian paramyxovirus (OPMV) has surfaced as an extremely important pathogen of viperid snakes. In 1979 the first outbreak was reported in a private collection in the United States, and since that time numerous outbreaks have been seen in collections of viperid snakes in the United States and Mexico. A similar virus has been isolated from a black mamba (Dendroospis polylepis) and multiple species of rat snakes including corn snakes (Elapha guttata), beauty snakes (E. taeniurus), Moelendorff's rat snakes (E. moellendorffi), and tiger rat snakes (Spilotes pullaties). In the Federal Republic of Germany, myxovirus-like agents were recently recovered from a red-tailed rat snake (Elaphe oxycephala), diamond python (Morelia orgus) and rhinoceros viper (Bitis nosicornis).
Host: All viperid species should be considered susceptible to infection. There also have been reports of infection in colubrid, boid, and elapid snakes. Those species reported to be infected are listed.

Distribution: Worldwide in zoological and private collections including United States, Mexico, Argentina, and Germany.

Ages Affected: Both juveniles and adults. There are no reports of infection in neonates.

EtiologicAgent: Members of the virus family Paramyxoviridae contain single-stranded RNA, are 100 to 200 nm in diameter, are enveloped, and have a molecular weight of 5,000,000 x to
8 ,000,000 daltons. Virus replication occurs mainly in the cytoplasm with maturation by budding from the cell membrane. The family includes the 4 genera: 1) Paramyxovirus ( parainfluenza); 2) Morbillivirus (measles-distemper-rinderpest group); 3) Pneumovirus (respiratory syncytial virus and pneumonia virus of mice); 4)Rubulavirus (mumps). Fer-de-lance virus (FDLV), isolated from lance-headed vipers which died during the outbreak in Switzerland, was found to have ultrastructural properties similar to the myxoviruses (ortho- para- and meta-; Clark et al, 1979).Virions were pleomorphic, ranging from spheroidal to filamentous and budded from plasma membranes. The size of released particles ranged from 146 to 321 nm in diameter, depending upon the host cell system and the cell culture incubation temperature. That FDLV is a paramyxovirus was indicated by demonstrating it possessed a single-stranded RNA genome and had a sedimentation value of 50S. Clark and Lunger (1981) found that FDLV was serologically distinct from mammalian and avian paramyxoviruses. A similar virus isolated from an ottoman viper (Vipera xanthina xanthina) was related to parainfluenza. Protein patterns of an isolate of a myxovirus from a gaboon viper in Germany showed best correlation with that of respiratory syncytial virus proteins (Ahne and Neubert, 1989). Recent studies with isolates from a Neotropical rattlesnake (Crotalus durissus), Auba Island rattlesnake (Crotalus unicolor) and Bush viper Atheris sp.) revealed the presence of 6 major proteins, and were considered analagous to those of mammalian paramyxoviruses (Richter et al, 1996). Attempts to establish the antigenic relatedness of the 3 isolates to a wide variety of avian and mammalian paramyxoviruses was unsuccessful. The Neotropical virus and bush viper virus have been deposited as VR-1408 and VR-1409 at American Type Culture Collection (ATCC)

Clinical Signs: In the original epizootic involving fer-de-lance , clinical signs lasted 5 to 12 days and progressed through 4 stages. During stage 1 there was a loss of muscle tone, with affected snakes exhibitinga "stretched out" linear posture with the head slightly elevated. During stage 2, which lasted 1 to 2 days, snakes showed abnormal activity. Affected snakes crawled about restlessly and kept their mouths partially opened. Their tongues were incompletely withdrawn into the sheathes and their pupils were extremely dilated. Stage 3 was seen from several hours to one day preceding death. The mouth was kept completely open and the snakes expelled a purulent material from the glottis. Stage 4 was seen from several minutes to one hour preceding death. The mouth was kept fully opened, the pupils were dilated, and animals were excessively active.
In an epizootic involving rock rattlesnakes (Crotalus lepidus), a new breeder male was introduced into an established collection without being quarantined. Ultimately this snake was in contact with 8 other rock rattlesnakes, 7 of which died. On day 3 following introduction the new snake developed head tremors and loss of equilibrium (Figure 1); it died on day 14. Over the next 2 1/2 months, 4 females and 3 males died after manifesting clinical signs. Only one rattlesnake remained healthy and survived.

In those snakes seen in the terminal stages of the disease, immediately preceding death, these animals generally manifest a convulsive behavior. This should not be confused with primary central nervous system disease described in rock rattlesnakes. These are agonal signs and are rather non-specific. Snakes may twist around, become flaccid and quiet for a period of time, and initiate these death-throws all over again.

In many of the outbreaks on OPMV infection, minimal or no clinical signs are noted by the keeper/owner. Often snakes will be found dead in their cage early in the morning, having died the night before. Many of thse snakes appear to be in good health with good weight and normal behavior prior to death. Clinical signs can be subtle or non-specific such as off feed for one to two weeks.Although clinical signs in the earlier stages of the disease are often subtle, abnormal respiratory sounds are audible when ill snakes are manually restrained. If the oral cavity is examined, exudate may be seen within the glottal opeing. Some snakes die with blood expelled from the glottis and filling the oral cavitly (Figure2). In a group of Siamese cobras (Naja naja kaouthia), the major consistent clinical signs was polyuria (increased urination). These snakes became ill during a die-off of rattlesnakes in the same room; paramyxovirus was isolated from dead rattlesnakes.

Pathology: It is the respiratory system that appears to be targeted by OPMV infections. Gross changes ranged from diffuse hemorrhage of the lung and air sac system to diffuse to focal accumulations of caaseous necrotic cellular debris (Figure 3). Other organs which may be involved on a gross level are the pancreas and liver. Pancreatic hyperplasia is not uncommonly encountered in infected crotalid snakes. The authors have seen this quite commonly in timber rattlesnakes, Crotalus horridus. In the liver, areas of necrosis and formation of multifocal firm nodules (granulomas) may be seen.

The lung of normal snakes consists of relatively thin septae which are lined by capillaries and alveolar type I and Type II cells (Figure 4). Histologic examination of lung tissue from snakes which have died of OPMV infection revealed a moderate to profuse amount of cellular debris and exudate filling both the major and minor passageways (Figure 5; Figure 6; Figure 7). Macrophages and gram-negative microorganisms are often seen within this material. Alveolar type II cells lining the primitive alveoli undergo hypertrophy, hyperplasia, and metaplasia. Characteristically, hyperplastic epithelial cells completely proliferate over capillary beds with normally are at the surface of the primitive alveoli. Often these epithelial cells are vacuolated. Intracytoplasmic inclusions are occasionally seen within these cells. The pulmonary septa are often thickened with edema fluid and infiltrated with mixed inflammatory cells including macrophages, lymphocytes, and plasma cells; giant cells are occasionally seen. Well-organized granulomas are rarely seen.
Microscopically, in those cases having an enlarged pancreas, there is hyperplasia of acinar cells and terminal ductile epithelium. This is considered by the authors to be a direct result of the virus, similar to the epithelial proliferation seen in the respiratory tract.

In the liver, lesions range from areas of caseation necrosis to granuloma formation. By special staining, gram-negative microorganisms are often demonstrated in these lesions. A variety of bacterial organisms have been isolated from these lesions with Pseudomonas spp. being the most common isolates. Bacterial organisms can invade the liver either from showering of bacteria from the gastrointestinal tract or from secondary bacterial invaders in the respiratory tract. Paramyxoviruses in mammals are known to have immunosuppressive effects and most likely results in a compromised immune system in snakes. Thus it is not surprising that these snakes often succumb to secondary bacterial pathogens.

Occasionally, OPMV infection may be manifested as an encephalitis. In a rock rattlesnake, demyelination and some degeneration of axon fibers with moderate ballooning of axon sheaths were seen in the brainstem and upper spinal cord (Figure 8). However, signs of central nervous system disease are not typically seen. When seen in a boa or python, consider inclusion body disease in the differential.


Transmission and Epidemiology: According to reports in the literature and our recent experience with epizootics in private collections, once snakes start dying of OPMV infection, the mortality within a collection generally progresses fairly rapidly and peaks at about one month following initial deaths. It then declines through 2-3 months. In each epizootic we have investigated, although several species may comprise the collection, the virus seems to target a particular species. In some die-offs, the disease may result in the death of a large number of snakes over a more prolonged period time.

Although OPMV infections have occurred throughout the year, in many cases, epizootics have been experienced from January to May. Replication of the vitrus in vitro has been demonstrated to be temperature-dependent with an optimum temperature for growth at 30°C and a range of temperature for growth of 23°C to 32°C. Thus, possibly a latent infection may become activated if snakes are kept at suboptimal environmental temperatures. This may account for many of the epizootics occurring during cooler times of the year or following hibernation.

Transmission most likely occurs by virus being expelled into the air as droplets from the respiratory system. Virus gaining access to water bowls and pools of water may persist for considerable periods of time. Transmission of virus via the digestive tract through feces is also a possibility. Although transovarian or transuterine transmission has not been firmly established, this may also be involved in the spread of the virus.

The natural host for OPMV is unknown. Since rat snakes have been found to harbor a similar agent, possibly a non-viperid snake could be the source of infection. Although we have isolated this virus from recently imported snakes, there have been no isolates from snakes in the field. Snakes are an extremely mobile group of animals in the pet and zoo trade and this probably has accounted for this virus being introduced into many species of naive snakes.


Diagnosis: Presumptive diagnosis of OPMV infection can be made upon finding characteristic light microscopic changes in lung. Since lesions in the lungs can be segmented, sections of cranial, mid, and caudal lung should be examined. Recently, an avidin-biotin immunoperoxidase staining technique (Figure 9) for demonstration of viral antigen in lung tissue has been used (Homer et al, 1995). An immunofluorescent rechnique also has been used (Figure 10). Since long term storage of tissue in 10% neutral buffered formalin seems to adversely affect staining of antigen, tissues should be transferred to 70% ethanol after 48 hours of fixation in formalins. Specific diagnosis will depend upon isolation of the virus in cell culture and ultrastructural characterization.

OMPV has been isolated in a wide variety of cell types of reptilian and mammalian origin including gecko embryo, rattlesnake fibroma, rattlesnake spleen, viper heart, and baby hamster kidney cells. We typically use either viper heart cells (Figure 11) or Vero cells. OPMV will result in giant cell formation in cultured cells (Figure 12). By electron microscopy, virus can be seen budding from the cytplasmic membrane of infected cells (Figure13). Virus will also replicate in snake eggs and chicken eggs. Replication in vitro (and presumably in vivo) is temperature-dependent with the highest titers achieved at incubation temperatures of approximately 23°C to 32 °C. The upper temperature limit for virus replication was in all cases less than 37°C.

A hemagglutination-inhibition test (Figure 14) has been developed to determine the presence of specific antibodies to OPMV in plasma/sera of exposed snakes. Blood samples are easily obtainable by cardiac puncture. See submission of samples below.

As in mammals, a positive titer is simply indicative of exposure to OPMV. Based upon a single sample, it would be impossible to make a statement about presence of virus and shedding status. If 2 samples are obtained form the same animal at a 2-4 week interval, and a rising titer can be demonstrated, this would be supportive evidence for recent OPMV infection.

Submission of Samples: Protocol for collection of blood and address for shipment of samples.

Control: There is no specific treatment for snakes showing clinical signs of OPMV infection. Since most affected snakes die with severe gram-negative respiratory tract infections, treating ill snakes with appropriate antibiotics is indicated. 2 months should lapse follwoing the last death from OPMV before introducing new animals. The aminoglycosides, gentamin and amikacin, in combination with a cephalosporin such as ceftazadime, are the drugs of choice. Cages of ill snakes should be cleaned and completely disinfected with a solution of 0.15% sodium hypochlorite. Chlorox is 5.25% sodium hypochlorite; a 1:33 dilution can be used. Cages should remain empty for at least 2 weeks before introduction new animals. Additionally, as a rule, new snakes should not be introduced into a colony of snakes in which there is active OPMV infection. Minimally, 2 months should lapse following the last death from OPMV before introducing new animals. Needless to say, ill snakes should be removed from the collection and placed in a quarantine room.
Currently, there is no vaccine available for protecting snakes against OPMV. We have recently developed a killed vaccine utilizing two different adjuvants and have completed a one-year study in naive western diamondback rattlesnakes. Although there was an antibody response to vaccination, the response was both variable and transient between the various experimental groups. Over the next year a modified live vaccine will be evaluated.

Current and Future Research:
1. Sequencing of conserved genes to look at phylogenetic relationships between various isolates.
2. Tranmission and pathogenesis studies.
3. Development of an immunofluorescent assay.
4. Comparison of viral proteins using Western Blots.



References:

For Further Information Contact:

Dr. Elliott Jacobson
Box 100126
Department of Small Animal Clinical Sciences
College of Veterinary Medicine
University of Florida
Gainesville, Florida 32610
E-Mail: [email protected]

Dr. Bruce Homer
Box 100145
Department of Pathobiology
College of Veterinary Medicine
University of Florida
Gainesville, Florida 32610
E-Mail: [email protected]

 

[Ghi Reptiles]

I just had to point out one of the greatest lies ever!

And as for your now pukingdark phase male you contacted me about before you went to buy it and offered it to me at cost because you wanted the others.

Impossible.....I didn't get off the phone with the seller until about 11:00pm or 11:30pm the first evening and left my house at 7:00am the next mnorning and had no idea what the guy had. So how could I offer you a dark phase male at my cost when I never knew it existed until I got to his house? I actually first called you when I got home and sent pics to you then so you didn't even know it existed until the afternoon, after I got home. Think before you post!

 

[Urban Jungles]

!

Dam, just when you thoughout this couldn't get worse...

Anyone with animals that were possibly exposed to this should really consider getting the animals tested, namely those originiating from the collection in question. This kind of infection could potentially wipe out an entire collection...nothing to be fooled with. Especially if you keep one of them pricey treeboa collections out there.

It's almost like herp-terrorism. Was this intended biological warfare? I really hope not. No matter how much disdain there is, it's never grounds for an attack of that nature. Sad thing is, Tim you are ironically following the path of that renown Puker salesman scumbag we all love to hate, the very one you were so vocal about...

I'm incredibly disappointed more than anything else. That is, next to the outcome of that poor animal...

It's really sad to see such actions come from two people that were once friends.

 

[robin d.]

All i have to say is......

Matt you have been extremely professional though out all of this and first and foremost to you was the snakes health. I applaud you, it is ashame this is what this deal has come to, the death of a beautiful animal caused from SOMEONE ELSES neglect. you know tim is going to say that he got the animal from you and blah blah that must be where it came from.... ummmm no way it spreads and kills to quickly therefor it muct be in Tim's collection. i would be led to believ tim knew something was up in his collection, hence selling off the whole thing before they die. maybe he didnt know it was paramixo or however you spell it but he knew something was running rampant though there. hm, maybe he did know . if thats the case seems like more evidence for you matt... contact his vet or some in his eara see what you can dig up.
tim all i have to say for you is...
you in my opinion are the top candidate for the pro-abortion coalitions poster child of the year
and buddy you are basically,"up sh!t creek without a paddle"


sorry all 9except tim) but this just sickens me

 

[Rob BryertonRKK]

I'm very sorry she lost her battle. What a horrible way to die. Although it is very sad you and your Vet did the right thing by caring for her till the very end. I know how hard it is.
I hope there aren't any others but after all this I'm not sure there won't be.
Blackwater thanks for posting the info. Very Scary.
Matt I'm very sorry.
Sincerely, Rob

 

[DISCERN]

great quote Robin! also....

Here is what I find funny. Since Tim has gotten back on here...he has yet to say anything about the main issue of this thread, which is the poor snake he sold to Matt.

Please do what is right Tim and refund Matt his money!

Billy Fraser

 

[Ghi Reptiles]

Yeah you guys are right....Tim hasn't posted an appology or answered any questions, all he has done is continue to make himself look bad with a post full of BS.

Thanks for all of the support here guys!