Neil Gubitz=Good Guy

[Seamus Haley]

A phenotypically "normal" amarali would have more dorsal saddles than this animals is showing, of that there is no question.

In fact, the only phenotypically "normal" subspecies which would display a similar appearance would be constrictor BUT, a Boa constrictor constrictor also would "normally" have saddles which were less saddle-shaped and more rectangular. Boa constrictor ortonii has a similar number of dorsal marks, but the appearance is such that it can generally be ruled out with only a cursory visual inspection.

Phenotypical abberencies do crop up all over the place, even without subspecific intergraditation. The color and markings of a species are never really set in stone...

Scale counts are though.

How many of the following does this animal have; ventral plates, midbody scale rows, caudual plates, circum-orbitals, supra-labials, inter-oculars, lori-labial rows?

Neil, if you're not sure what those are and need some diagrams explaining where on the snake these scale groupings are and how to best go about counting them, I might be able to locate some diagrams and scan them in, or possibly even find a few online.

Ben, I don't think anyone is questioning your credibility or the validity of the animals you sold Neil... I think they are questioning Neil's general ethics. Most people likely feel, as I do, that he's not really above switching animals around on unsuspecting buyers.

 

[Neil Gubitz]

Seamus.... That is the EXACT animal that Ben sold me, but, your opinions mean a great deal to me.... not!!

Neil

 

[Vince]

this post is dead, really who in there right mind is going to buy from this guy, come on.

 

[Seamus Haley]

Way to completely avoid the issue of the scale count Neil.

Regardless of who produced them for a moment...

If you buy an animal, then turn around and sell it, 100% of the responsibility for accurate representation becomes yours and yours alone. If you find that it has been misrepresented, you can always go back to whoever you obtained it from and have it out with them, but this does not lessen your culpability for selling (or trying to sell) a misrepresented animal.

If it really comes down to it, you *should* know enough about the animald you choose to deal in to avoid mistakes of this nature. They seem kinda frequent, don't you think? A typo here, a mistake in the wording there... Basically, the repeated and unchanging tendency for these to crop up in your ads leaves only two explainations... Either you know that it's inaccurate and do it deliberately to mislead the buyer OR it's entirely an innocent mistake every time and you're just dumber than dirt when it comes to realizing that a morph and hybrid aren't the same thing or that your amarali doesn't look anything like all the other "kids" on the playground (classifieds). Take your pick Neil- fraudulent or stupid; which do you want to be known as?

 

[John Apple]

maybe TOO much credit but

I think Neil is an intelligent person that KNOWs exactly what he is doing.



As does a used car salesman

 

[The BoidSmith]

John.... I really appreciate you saying that.... you're absolutely correct, though.... I just can't keep my mouth shut, and it gets me in trouble A LOT.... but, hey, what are you gonna do???

Neil,

Your last question in that quote of yours can be answered with just one word: CHANGE. By your own admission, you state you are helpless and not able to change. If you put a sincere effort into it I believe you can. Yes, it will take time, and yes it means acceptance of some things and letting go of others.

Now, once you feel you have started to change don't proclaim the "new Neil". "It's for you to know and for the rest to find out". And believe me, people will find out eventually. It might take months, 1, 2, 5 years, who knows! But the time will go by anyways so why not giving it a try? Only YOU can choose to be exactly where you are today or in a completely different position.

.... Rich and Jerry Tressler have told me MANY TIMES to just stay quiet, but I just never have sense enough to listen to good advice.... one of my downfalls, I guess....

Follow the advice of those that care about you. Even those that are antagonistic with your thoughts do so because deep enough they care. Even if maybe not openly about you, they care about what happens to other people, and thus they have trouble accepting your behavior. If we thought you were a non-entity (just to use your words) we probably would not spend the time trying.

Enjoy your weekend guys!

 

[KNOBTAIL]

ALVARO, your thread makes alot of sense

but unfortunately i Neils case, as well as possibly some others, things have a way of getting out of hand. This particular thread is one example.

Originally, it was a good guy post. Here we are 15 pages later discussing the virtues on how Neil has to deal with his past experiences. This is my gripe , that not only pertains to Neil but to other members of this site.

If some one wants to post an inquiry about Neil, as an example, there is a voluminous amount of information that could be provided the inquirer. No problem with that!
If someone needs to complain about a difficutly with Neil , their is no problem with that as well

But if someone wants to post a "good guy post" about a transaction with Neil, that should be the end of it. But we both know that within minutes, the treads will begin. That should not happen on this forum. Then as we have witnessed, what ends up is a bashing ceremony that continues until we are all sick of it.

Their are alot people who for whatever reason do not like Neil, the way he conducts his business, his advertising methods or possibly his existence. Some of these threads can get quite nasty, and have nothing to do with herps, the BOI, or anything else other than inflame a situation that has already gone out of control.

I am not suggesting that members dont get involved if their is something to get involved about, but I think it sets a dangerous precedent when a simple good guy post turns into a nightmare.
I dont see the benefit in advising a person who was satisfied with a transaction with Neil or anyone else, that Neil is a scumbag or some of the other names that were attributed to him.

It is this kind of treatment that I am concerned about . Their should be some checks and balances between someones right to post a healthy experience without third party interfence unless we are dealing with out and out theft.
I honestly believe the webmaster should set some ground rules on replys that pertain to good guy posts so we dont become so repetitive every time Neils name comes up in a post. Also, I think in fairness to everyone concerned, if you have had a problem with Neil or anyone else, postings are welcomed and your experience is always appreciated, but if you have never dealt with Neil, never purchased from Neil, then one has to wonder why are you here!

 

[sputnik]

I think that it is not unusual of these threads to end up way off topic after 3 or 4 pages.

You tend to end up with the usual sarcastic remarks. Which usually means they have nothing else to do. Or two or more people who do not like each other end up slinging back and fourth on the same thread. It's very predictable and makes you wonder, do I ever want to buy from some of these people if they act like this?

You get the usual "I have been in this industry for x amount of years" so I know better then you and your below me and my post is RIGHT.

In the case of this thread it has all these ingredients. You could say this is way off topic too, but where do you express it so all on this thread can view it?

I do think enough truths have emerged from this for people to realize who they can trust and who they cannot trust when a problem with an animal happens!!!

 

[robin d.]

ok first off...i
if people would stick with the rules as to post dealings with a person to an existing thread , it would be nice...
when people post bad guy experiences, some people come on posting good guy thread added to it... whats the difference in posting in reference to a post.... good or bad???
if you ask me... i personally dont like neils existance... with his lack luster background, misrepresented, mislabled, missexed and misleading ads and aniimals, i find it hard to believe anything from him. i
n my eyes he is in the same catagory as all of the other "bad guys" out ther ....mislable here.. fib there, exageration of the truth, not telling the whole thruth .......little thing here.. it all adds up... leing is leing no matter how big or small aint nothing worse than a liar.
regardless of a good or bad guy post people need to be aware of what kind person he is and what his past and current mis dealings have been plain and simple

 

[KNOBTAIL]

ROBIN, it seems to make sense to me

that if you post your experiences after a good guy post or a bad guy post, that you should do so. I agree with you 100%, under the following conditon..............that you have some experience with whom the post is about. No problem their!

But I question some of the people who are posting and have never had any experience with Neil, never purchased from him, never spoke to him, but have joined a bandwagon on a
herpinquisition. This is where I have a problem.

By all means if you had some difficulties with Neil that involves the selling or trading of herps, or even some shady advertising, its to your benefit to let everyone know. But I think we both know that does not seem to merit out with some of the threads that been posted. I am referring specifically to some nasty posts by Chris Eaton. I dont know who he is or why that kind of a post has even been allowed to stay on this thread. This individual I doubt has purchased anything from Neil, or may not even know Neil, but even he does, this kind of slander has no place on the BOI or any other site. Their is nothing constructive, nor pleasant even in an uncomplimentary way about his posts.

My response I feel is necessary because if we continue down this path, every post whether good or bad will be subject to the same lunacy that has occured here.

 

[Wilomn]

Jerry, in regards to your friend neil, there are two ways to change how ALL threads about him eventually come to the point of people talking about how BAD a guy he is.

#1 He could embrace honesty for a change and quit all the mis-leading, mis-representing, mis-sexing, mis-naming and outright LYING about much of what he sell. Were he to do that NO ONE would have anything to say about how he does business.

#2 He could get out of the business entirely.

Short of one of these two things happening nothing will change here on the BOI in regards to your friend neil.

Many times those of us who have a bit of experiance both with the school of life and its hard lessons and reptiles see a pattern that many without that hardearned experiance would miss. I do not think it is wrong or out of line to bring a persons character or past BAD dealings to light. Afterall if he, meaning neil in this particular instance, did not have the reputation he so well deserves by his own actions, then none of this would be necessary.

It is also suspicious that SEVERAL times a first time poster has come here and instead of adding on to an existing thread about your friend niel they have started up a new one about him. Come to think of it the same thing used to happen to upchuck back when they were still buddies with neil. Do you see a pattern here Jerry?

If you want folks to follow the rules it needs to be ALL the rules not just the ones that make your friends look better than they actually are. I am not saying this to smack you in the face, I'm really trying as you are to keep it from getting so personal between us, but just to make a point from the other side of the fence.

Wes Pollock

 

[Chris Eaton]

just a quick note ....

Ok heres the deal. No I never bought anything from Neil. I belive that makes me smart. The reason I posted here was because I, like apparently dozens of other people here on the BOI are tired of reading about how Neil ripped someone off, how Neil mislables ads, how Neil constantly lies, cheats and scams and STILL he has this little core of supporters who say "Don't worry Neil, You're the ,man Neil, Don't listen to all these people Neil, you're ok." That is the joke Jerry Tresser. Neil is an embarassment to this hobby, and ANY of his supporters are also embarassments.

Now people like Jerry are thinking, "How could Chris say these things about Neil if he never bought anything from him??" I don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows. Now people like Jerry have to think to themselves, "Has my support of Neil costs me even one customer???" Well I know for a fact it has. I dont breed anything, I don't sell anything, and I usually don't post anything. I have over 30 animals and although its a small collection compared to some of the people on here, I could tell you I will never buy any future ones from Neil or any of his supporters. I know other people who won't either.

I may have been harsh with some of my comments, but not overly. My main goal was to crack some jokes to bring a little levity to this thread, and I have to say, I don't give a rat's ass who likes it or who doesnt because at no point did I say anything untrue. What's funny is that the majority of people agree with me, I know the majority of people laughed at my little wise ass comments, and I know the majority of the people on here would like to see Neil gone. If these comments were taken the wrong way I apologize and never for one second did I mean to offend any of the honest people or legitimate businesses on this board. But ya know what? The majority of the legitiamte and honest people on this board agree with me. Thank you for your time.

 

[KNOBTAIL]

Wes, first of all, I really could not consider

Neil a friend, so lets stop the sarcasim. I have spoken to him once for about 5 minutes at a show. I have never spoken to him on the phone, and my only connection with Neil has been when he has emailed me, and in those instances their business related. Anything that pertains to the BOI has always been "keep your mouth shut". Thats it! he reasons are quite evident. Anytime he may respond , he gets into a deeper problem. My advise has always been to move on, and keep away from the BOI. Apparently he has chosen not to do so. I dont mind however if you consider him an aquaintance. I put you in that catagory as well.

If you read my post I am sure you will agree that we have a problem here. Nowhere have I attempted to justify anything Neil may have done or not done. My concern is with regard to any post that ends up in this direction. If for nothing else, I think we both can come to the same conclusion that fueling a heated situation like this just brings out the worst in people, many of whom for their own reasons feel it is necessary whether they know Neil or not, to become so personal in their attacks, that you begin to wonder what attracts these characters to these posts.

 

[KNOBTAIL]

Mr Eaton, thanks for responding, and

clarifying your position. If I am to understand this correctly, you dont know Neil, you have never purchased anythng from Neil, your just complaining about Neil because you feel its necessary considering that Neil has ripped dozens of people off and you felt it was your obligation to chime in. That seems to be the crux of your post.

You also acknowledge that some of your comments were harsh and that to crack some jokes would bring some levity to this thread.

I specifically mentioned you in my thread because you are the worst example of what I was referring to . Your posts are an embarresment to this forum. I dont find them amuzing, but rather distasteful. They have no merit, and certainly by your own words, you have gone out of your way to just lower yourself to the point where even if Neil was wrong , your approach would be something to stay away from. Its slanderous, and borders on libel, and you have no proof of anything that you mentioned other that what other people have written about.

I dont think the majority of the people laughed at your "smart ass remarks" as you think they have. But I do think that when a thread of this nature arises on the BOI and a person like yourself provides the kind of post that you did earlier, then we all have a problem! Personally, I hope you go away, but I doubt that would happen, not because of your feelings about Neil, but because their is no room for the kind of dialogue that you seem to bring to this forum. This now has nothing to do with Neil. Its a behavoral problem that I think you have, an unhealthy one, at that. I am even surprised that the webmaster did not delete your two previous posts because they are caustic , certainly non productive and baseless considering that you dont even have any first hand experience other that what you have heard or read.

For whatever reason the webmaster reinstated Neil. Some were happy, some were not, but it was his choice. We as members have to abide by that ruling, but that does not give you the right to second guess who you think your supporters are or are not.

 

[Neil Gubitz]

Jerry.... As you are always telling me, I think you're fighting a losing battle.... ALL the people that are "dissing" me on this site have NEVER done business with me, have NEVER spoken to me in person, and have NEVER sold me anything....

I have NEVER ripped off ANYONE.... the whole THREE people (in 6 years) that got bad animals from me, were made good on, and the "errors" in my ads (once pointed out) have all been immediately fixed.... look, not everyone is going to like everyone, it's a fact of life.... I can live with that.... all these dissenters are showing, is their adolescence.... if they say something often enough, they start to believe it.... I know I've never ripped anybody off, and I know I've never lied to a customer, and (except for the three people that I had a small problem with) have all been very satisfied with my customer service and the animals they've received, so, just let it go and let them say whatever they want.... what they say is certainly not going to "get me out of the business"??.... I'm here to stay whether they like it or not, so why bother with them??.... I'm finally taking your advice and staying silent when they diss me....

If you've noticed, there are only about a half-dozen or so people that keep coming onto every one of my posts and saying the same things over and over again.... big deal??? Most of my customers have seen it time and time again, and they just laugh and continue buying from me, with the same great results....

Jerry.... just let it go.... if Rich wants to put a stop to it, he has the capability to do so.... obviously, he hasn't found the desire to do so yet.... and as we've always said.... it's his site to do what he wants with it.... if he wants to let it digress to the level it has, that's his decision to make, not ours.... I've gotten another 3 demerits because of some of the things I've said on this thread, but, I can promise you one thing.... I won't get any more.... I'm done spitting into the wind....

Neil

 

[John Apple]

The reason the same people come out here and post about you Neil is because of you....as intelligent as you are...you don't understand that YOU are a product of your actions , words and way you try sympathy [Ive gotten another three demerits]
never bought from Neil
talked to Neil maybe a dozen or so times [e-mail]
seen some of his ads here and there
formed my own opinion of Neil
and I will voice it
Neil's words
if he wants to let it digress to the level it has, that's his decision to make, not ours.... I've gotten another 3 demerits because of some of the things I've said on this thread

The site is not digressing and we all deserve our demerits when we get them, sympathy worked once for you Neil and I don't think you can feed that snake any more

 

[Stardust]

Jerry,
Your words are exactly what I have been thinking but could not put into words like you did.
I will read the BOI but will not give a yay or nay anymore because of all the feedback and how it goes down hill very fast from some that have nothing better to do with their time.
I do not believe you are talking solely about Neil and his threads as you are in all threads this happens to.
Thank you for writing what I was thinking.

 

[Hues1]

I have NEVER ripped off ANYONE.... the whole THREE people (in 6 years) that got bad animals from me, were made good on, and the "errors" in my ads (once pointed out) have all been immediately fixed.... QUOTE]

I've personally tried to stay out of this thread...but according to your own words above...Neil, you can remember every bad deal or every customer you've taken cared of....well you forgot one !

How about me Neil ? or am I just one of many that you did manage to forget about ?

I might not condone the fact that there are people here "bashing" Neil for what ever reasons apparent to them, but I ABSOLUTELY DONT CONDONE the fact that You made the above statement.

I gave you every opportunity to make right with me in one way or other.....by allowing you to re-earn my business and you did nothing more but to mislead and disappoint me at every turn. I like many other people who have not spoken up....was one of your "supporters" in the past.

Why did I wait til now to say anything ?...because I at one point of time was very vocal about you being honest and reputable...but after all thats occured, I now find myself kind of embarassed that I was vocal and did support you.

I can sit here no longer and have you try to tell the rest of us that you've only had "3" bad deals and made right on all of them....because thats NOT true.

May it be a coincidence that your ads were just "errors" ? or is it a bonafide pattern of operation ? I now tend to believe the latter.

Am I in fact the only other person you've had a problem with in the "last 6 years" ? or are there more which have not spoken up? Once again I tend to believe the latter.

Just to refresh your memory Neil....here's a e-mail I sent you which I have now archived in the "Gubitz" file on my hard drive. I have all of the e-mails between you and I during the months of 10/2002 thru 12/2002 also saved on my hard drive. So dont even try to come up with a defense for this one.

P.S.
As one of your past supporters I can now honestly say that you really need to stop "talking the talk" and "start walking the walk" by admitting your faults, and doing the righ thing instead of hiding behind this fasaud of "everyone makes mistakes".

>>>Subj: Re: Message about: 1.0, cb late 01, WESTERN HOGNOSE, EATING UNSCENTED PINKIES...
Date: 12/08/2002 8:48:49 PM Eastern Standard Time
From: HUE8288
To: [email protected]



whoa...maybe I should've read all my e-mails before I responded to your e-mail dated earlier.

Neil.....
I appreciate the fact that you looked for a female "specifically" for me. But put yourself in my shoes....

1. The first time I ever thought about buying anything from you, it was a "female" hognose you posted on kingsnake about a month ago which turned out to be a MALE. And not because you admitted to listing it wrong but because I found it on your website.
2. I see another ad you have on kingsnake for a "virgin" bearded dragon adult female. I take the chance and purchase it from you. Well guess what, exactly 9 days after I receive her, she pumps out 19 fertile eggs.
3. I send you a e-mail asking you to find me a LATE 2000 hognose female to pair up with the early '01 male you have, you send me a e-mail requesting payment for a early 2001 FEMALE ( born in may or march ) along with the early '01 male which you originally tried to sell me as a female.

Excuse me for being a little leary for sending you money right away. I've been more then fair with all the contact I've had with you even though you misrepresented 2 animals so far. I gave you a 2nd. chance after the hognose incident and purchased the dragon from you. I NEVER ever made a BIG deal about the misrepresenting of both the male hog ( which thank god I never purchased ) and the "VIRGIN" female bearded dragon which laid eggs. I have always believed that people make mistakes...and thats what I thought happened with you, therefor I never JUDGED you like you're doing to me. I'm not a newbie to this hobby. I've been keeping, breeding, and selling reptiles for 10 years and owned Chameleons-N-Geckos inc.( previously Chameleons-N-Geckos.com) from May of 98 thru April of 2001.

Now if you decide to come thru and get me a LATE 2000 female hognose to go with your early '01 male. Let me know and I'll paypal $225.00 to you ASAP. Be aware that I do keep a colony of 2.8 hognoses now and do know what sizes and weights they should be at certain ages.

Alex Hue<<<

 

[Chris Eaton]

another note

Jerry, by your own words, you have never bought anything from Neil, delt with him for more than 5 minutes at a show, and maybe had a couple of emails with him. Then you tell me since I never delt with him before, I cant offer my opinion on Neil, yet you have hardly delt with him but its ok for you to offer your opinion on him?? I dont think so. I think the majority of people did take my words with a grain of salt and did laugh at them as is proven by the dozen or so emails that I have received stating as such. So before you go shooting your mouth off about being the moral watchdog on the BOI check your facts first. The only embarassments to this BOI are Neil and people like you who defend him. I never delt with Neil so I can't have an opinion? I'm sorry but i read the hundreds of pages on here regarding Neil's crappy business practices and thats what made me form my opinion. If you want to be the moral watchdog and go after people who you feel deteororate this business, start with your buddy.

 

[Neil Gubitz]

Alex.... I'm sorry, man, but I don't understand your post at all??.... I DO remember the Beardie thing, but I bought that beardie as never having seen a male in her life.... if I KNEW she was gravid, there is no way I would have sold her to you until she laid her eggs.... it just doesn't make sense??.... I would have told you if I thought she was gravid, why wouldn't I have??.... Don't you think that I would have wanted the babies for myself??.... I honestly thought she was a virgin, and I never thought she was just about to lay eggs??.... I had the same thing happen to me by a very respected dealer that everyone knows (NOT Ben Siegel).... I had a Male Meller's Chameleon die on me and wanted another one to go with my female, the wholesaler sent me a "Male", which 6 days later laid 13 eggs.... It happens to everyone, even the "big boys".... as far as the Hognose goes.... if you never bought it from me, how do you know I made a mistake in the sexing of it??.... I do remember having a hognose on KS that I listed as one sex, and on my site I made a typo and listed it as the other sex, but, when someone (maybe you) told me about the descrepency, I checked the sex and relisted it correctly in both places.... I don't see where I did you wrong at all (on purpose, anyways)???

Neil