NERD supports Voids and plays with them

[crazycorn]

ENOUGH name calling, it will detract from this thread and its meaning ultimately taking it to HELL, plus I can't stand name calling.

 

[crazycorn]

I have PM'ed NERD about question and I hope to see the answer publicly as that is for what I asked. Sadly I doubt I will get the answer.......

 

[Jim O]

I have PM'ed NERD about question and I hope to see the answer publicly as that is for what I asked. Sadly I doubt I will get the answer.......

You might get a quicker response from an e-mail David.

 

[crazycorn]

LOL I think my email is getting enough of a work out with the topic reply notices.

 

[Jim O]

LOL I think my email is getting enough of a work out with the topic reply notices.

Turn them off. LOL.

 

[SPJ]

I have read thru this whole thing and find a real problem with the fact that NERD did the WORST type of educational presentation possible and jeopardized innocent people.

Void or not, you should ALWAYS treat a gabby, cobra, rattler, etc. as a hot!

Freehandling and letting kids pet them in WRONG.

The age of the poster should not be an issue. It seems to me that for being 16, he has more sense than Kevin who is much older.

Does NERD support voids. Based upon the fact that they are showing them off to kids and being reckless with them, I would say they do.

They got them as rescues and BOUGHT others. Personnally, I think NERD specifically went out looking to buy voids to use in a display like this.

Between Kevins arrogance to the "little guys" as vendors at shows, the unethical crossing of the woma x carpet, and now the totally irresponsible display of these animals in public, I am getting really tired of how they are conducting themselves.

Forget about who posted the pics and the age of the people responding in the thread and focus on what the pictures show.

They show NERD putting on a display using potentially dangerous animals with NO safety precautions. Hell one pic shows a cobra being provoked into striking at a person.

Where is the barrier between the animal and the public?
Where are the pics of the proper handling techniques?
Where is the statement from NERD that they never should have allowed spectator contact with these animals?

Forget about the name of the business that did this. If it wasn't "NERD", this display would be condemned by a lot more people.

 

[sirenofthestorm]

Sooo will someone who represents NERD please tell me whether or not everyone who handled, touched, or was otherwise within striking distance of the voids were on their way to being apprenticed in hots with several hundred hours of work under their belts?

NERD, you're around, please respond.

 

[JuliusSqueezer]

I don't get this whole "rescue" thing. Apparently a mutant ball python mill, factory, whatever you want to call it... is the ideal place to send unwanted venomoids to? They sure get a lot lol...How many voids have you guys ever seen up for rescue/adoption? What moronic agency would hand them over to someone who has no regard for safety of even children? Since I know for fact that Kara openly admitted at one point that they had a "vet" perform the void surgeries for NERD ...I'm gonna call BS on this whole "rescue" claim. I'd also love to see the credentials of this so called vet. No self respecting vet who wishes to not be sued over a botched surgery resulting in an envenomation would touch this procedure with a 10 foot mamba.

 

[Karen Hulvey]

In every other thread where someone is pictured freehandling a hot people jump down the person's throat. Yet in this one, the poster needs to provide proof. Like the pictures aren't proof.

Where is everyone's outrage at the way venomous animals were presented? Instead everyone is stuck on the fact that someone reposted pictures posted on a free website.

Post #3

Personly I think that its their choice to do that.
I wouldnt buy one and I dont agree with it but I dont think that makes their snakes worth anyless and I dont think anyone has the right to tell them what to do. I mean for christ sakes look what all the hot keepers already have to deal with. Hot or not its their choice. Isnt useing someones pictures without permission against the law? I dont really know just curious your not saying its your but still. No Offense Please. Just my thoughts.

Condoning it or not?
Post #4

David, Do you want to give us some context on these photos?
And yes, they are copyright and since you copied them without permission that is a no-no.

Condoning it or not? A second post against the thread starter and not against the proper people.
Post #5

Don't quote me, because I'm not 100% sure, but I think I heard/read that all of NERD's void are/were rescues.

Condoning it or not? So what if they are rescues? That has nothing to do with the fact that "NERD supports voids and plays with them". It's right there in living color.
Post #6

Yes, I second that. Context please!
So far you have stated you’re a picture thief. Now prove your statement that they support Voids and the context of the pictures you have stolen.
Thanks in advance.

Condoning it or not? Parading venomous animals out within a few feet of the public, void or not, is "supporting voids and playing with them."
Post #9

David: We all have our opinions on voids. Myself, I am against them. HOWEVER, you reprinted pix that were removed from a site without permission, and admit to it; that is not a good thing to do. Further, we have no context to form an opinion. Even the folks who are anti void will by and large find a place in their heart to accept one in a rescue circumstance.

Condoning it or not? What's with all the context to form an opinion crap? Not one single person asked the dude who decided to wear his rattlesnake as a bracelet what kind of context he did it in.
Post #14

Perhaps if YOU do not even know the context in which they were originally posted, it wasn't such a good idea to post them here and add your own thoughts to them......which COULD be far from the truth.
I have strong feelings against voids myself, but I don't think I would have made a post like this without knowing for CERTAIN what those pictures were all about.

Condoning it or not?
Post #15

Don't you think it is up to YOU to prove your claims? You come on here and accuse people of very specific things but have no proof of those things, only assumptions, and then tell other people to go and find out for themselves whether you assumptions and accusations are true?
In the future you should really try to get the details and facts BEFORE you accuse people of things.

Condoning it or not?
Post #25

David, did it ever cross your mind to contact NERD and perhaps ask them if the pictures in question are theirs? And then maybe ask for an explanation of what everyone is seeing in those pictures?
I think that would have been a better first step. Then once you received your answer you would have been able to make a post here with context and facts to back up your statements. Your opinions would have been received better too.

Condoning it or not?
Post #44

David, the bashing you are taking is your own doing. I am not happy with what I see in the pictures either but the plain fact is you can't make accusations without a factual basis.
What do you call someone who takes something that belongs to someone else without permission?

Barely condemning it. It is this post, #44 and Page 9 before anyone decides not to condone freehandling hots. David's accusations were 100% right. Where's David's apology? NERD DID PLAY WITH HOTS. It's right there.

I must have viewed a different set of pictures because here's my take on them:
A Gaboon viper inches from a person's knee.
A woman holding a very large albino cobra with two hands.
Kevin with a cobra with its mouth open only about 5 inches from his finger.
Kevin holding a cobra inches from his face with his finger on the cobra's head.
Kevin holding a very large rattlesnake with people all around.
Kevin with two cobras hooded on the ground about 8' from a man, two children & a woman calmly sitting on the ground.
Kevin on the ground with a cobra hooded in front of him with a child about 5' away and bystanders all around.
And then the kicker, 3 adults and 2 kids petting a cobra held by Kevin.

It looks like a good time was had by all at NERD's "Venomous Playday".

 

[bcfos]

Very well said Karen. Well said indeed. Does anyone know the venomous laws in New England? Reason being if it is a permit required they would have to have one being a cobra even if it is a void is still classified as a cobra and would be a permit required snake. I highly doubt fish and game would turn ove a confiscated snake which is classified by law as venomous to anyone. Most cases they destroy such animals so they can get some press so the public can see how they are saving the public from such dangers..

 

[Rebel Dragons]

Nice twist Karen.

To answer your question. No, I do not condemn it. Nor do I condone it. I don't approve of it but that is simply because I don't feel I know enough about it to do either.

As I stated earlier. I don't approve of pythons or constrictors being around small children either. Simply because I don't trust the animal enough.

 

[Jim O]

Karen,

Let me make this simple for you. You have seen my posts many times and as I have said to others, I do not do subtle. Because I failed to condemn, do not take that as condoning. I was simply not prepared to condemn NERD as having anything to do with the pictured activity until context or verification was offered. I never said it was OK. Honestly, I do not know Kevin from Kara from Justin from Andy or any of the others except as voices on the telephone. It really is hard to know faces that way.

I fail to see how asking for context of the photos (ie was this a NERD event and were these really NERD people) can be construed by any reasonable person as condoning anything. Being told to go find it myself by the original poster because he evidently did not even know caused this thread to go where it went. And as for David, I have been forthright in complimenting his good posts, not just in criticizing the bad ones. As I said, I don't do subtle. I think that he knows where he stands with me at present. And as I said, I think that he has learned to spend an extra bit of time getting his ducks in a row before making an accusation, even if that accusation is later proved to be true. It is the nature of human beings, after all, to ask questions. I believe that's called intellectual curiosity. And giving honest and complete answers is a function of integrity.

 

[Gary O]

I would really like to get NERDS reply to this. I am not sure why they have not replied to some of the questions here.

I do have a few and in no way is this to start a war

1)Why do you have kids touching hots?

2)Why do kids need to be in striking range of hots?

3)Why did these snakes need to be freehandled to show them to people?

4)Is this the first time this has happened?

5)Will this be the last time this happens?

I am not trying to tell you how to run things but you have to admint this was not the best choice. I have to say I can make a list a mile long why voids are bad and rant about it for days. But to tell you the truth. The Void thing is a second issue to the fact public were touching and in striking range of HOTS.

But as stated here many times if this was any joe blow free handling hots people would have slammed him for days. And to tell you the truth slamming them does nothing. Education does everything. Maybe NERD needs to be educated. Just becuase they are a big dog in the breeding world does not mean they know everything. Everyone has there stregths and weak points. if I came up on that in person I would have thrown a fit and pulled Kevin to the side and asked him what the hell he was thinking. JMHO

 

[JuliusSqueezer]

To answer your question of context however late it may be...again...Yes it was a NERD event held at NERD by NERD featuring NERD Owner and employees. Now where do you stand? Do you think NERD represented these animals to the public in a way that sheds a good light on reptile keeping as a whole or even any part of it?

 

[Jim O]

To answer your question of context however late it may be...again...Yes it was a NERD event held at NERD by NERD featuring NERD Owner and employees. Now where do you stand? Do you think NERD represented these animals to the public in a way that sheds a good light on reptile keeping as a whole or even any part of it?

I know the context. It has been made clear to me. And my opinion, if not made forcefully enough to satisfy some of you could not be clearer. I am very disturbed by those photos. Kevin should know better or should have known better. I hope that he reads this and heeds this.

I am also rather concerned about an answer to David's question with respect to not knowing the origin of the animals. If these were animals of unknown origin then this was even more of a dumbass move.

As I said, I don't do subtle. Could I make this any clearer for anyone?

 

[Jim O]

I believe that I made all this clear in a post this morning. But if there's anywhere where anyone can show that I approved of this activity (aside from Karen's convoluted "You condone it by not condeming it" long after I had indeed condemned it) I would be interested to know where it is.

 

[JuliusSqueezer]

Just trying to clear away the contextual dead horse that was mucking up the thread Now lets resume the NERD bashing please ...I have to say though, I doubt any of this will change the way they act....just what they publish photographic evidence of. They are an extremely self righteous bunch.

 

[Rockford]

Hey folks.....Let's stay on the real issue here and get some of the answer's that Gary is asking.

This thread really isn't about Jim back peddling. It's about how this sort of activity(the careless handling of Hots or Voids) can affect our hobby as a whole. It isn't just a Void issue, it's an issue where I may not be able to keep my Boas or responsibly kept Hots in the near future because of other's actions.

After mowing my lawn and cleaning out my garage I got to thinking and I am pretty pissed off by NERD's actions. I hope that people realize how serious this crap is.

bthacker

 

[Jim O]

Does anyone know the venomous laws in New England? Reason being if it is a permit required they would have to have one being a cobra even if it is a void is still classified as a cobra and would be a permit required snake.

Well Mr. Rhodes Scholar, they vary from state to state and last time I checked "New England" was not a state.

Best as I can determine, for New Hamshire (yes New Hampshire is a state and is where NERD is):

Native Venomous: Permit required

Exotic Venomous: Permit required

Protected Native Venomous: Permit required

Timber Rattlesnake (Crotalus horridus)



New Hampshire Fish and Game Department

2 Hazen Drive

Concord, NH 03301

So yes Virginia, a permit is required in New Hampshire.

 

[Jim O]

This thread really isn't about Jim back peddling.

That's good because I haven't. But if you can find where I have, show me. I'm not holding my breath. Wake me up when it's over...