NERD supports Voids and plays with them

[DaveyFig]

What was there to gain by allowing hands on with hots?

That is a great question. IF all of those other animals mentioned were used in the show already, what could possibly added by showing the voids? Do you think anyone that attendended would have cared that there were not representatives of the venomous world being handed around for show and tell?
How many voids were used? How many cobras do you have to have loose in the grass to teach about cobras?
I think a better teaching tool would be to leave them in their enclosures and feed them, but I guess it depends on what you are trying to teach.
If you are trying to show that herps aren't slimy evil things, then of course you have to let kids play with them.

 

[Gary O]

Ok sense NERD is not going to reply(That is their choice) I have a few questions for all members

1) What would you have done if you walked up to a show like this

2) When you found out it was NERD would it have changed the way you would have handled it?

3) Would you allow your child to pet a "Void"?

 

[Rockford]

Ok sense NERD is not going to reply(That is their choice) I have a few questions for all members

1) What would you have done if you walked up to a show like this

2) When you found out it was NERD would it have changed the way you would have handled it?

3) Would you allow your child to pet a "Void"?

My answers:

1) I would have asked who the hell was in charge and asked them if they were on drugs. I probably would have told them to pack it up or the authorities would be on there way but that's all this hobby needs is bad publicity. In fact a reporter could be writing up a hobby mutilating story as we type. Anyone think of that???

2)Hell no.....I have never bought anything from them and never will. A name only goes so far.

3)Hell no.......My child would not even be allowed in my snakeroom with hots unless fully supervised. My child would never be allowed to pet a hot. I don't care if the snakes head was missing. It's a bad lesson.

I would like to apologize to all for going off-topic and acting like a 3 year old arguing with the other "kids". It is really hard to resist but it seems the real topic is still getting bypassed with a few people wondering if they were condoning the these horrendous actions. Get over it. Karen has explained it pretty well, written in English for everyone to understand.

It also seems no matter how much we think this is wrong you will always have voiders thinking that NERD did nothing wrong and this is where the real problem lies. You can argue with these people till the cows come home and they just won't get it.

PLEASE DO NOT SUPPORT VOIDERS IN ANYWAY.......It is truly bad for our hobby. It promotes hot keeping without proper handling. Accidents will truly arise from the increased mishandling of these poor creatures. I don't know about you but I like keeping my snakes and the legislative threat needs more accidents and more idiotic publicity to get all fired up.......the threat doesn't need anymore fuel.


bthacker

 

[JuliusSqueezer]

If you are trying to show that herps aren't slimy evil things, then of course you have to let kids play with them.

Hardly seems to be the case when Kevin was teasing a cobra into striking with a barely out of strike range finger for the spectators to OOO an AHHH over.

 

[DaveyFig]

You just had to pic the one part of my post where I was being sarcastic didnt you?Oh well.
I will say here that there is NEVER a reason that a child should be put in a position to interact with a venomous reptile,educational or not ( I say venomous ,cause I can!The species and subspecific descriptions of the animals state that they are venomous, and cutting body parts out doesn't change their nomenclature)

 

[JuliusSqueezer]

You just had to pic the one part of my post where I was being sarcastic didnt you?Oh well.
I will say here that there is NEVER a reason that a child should be put in a position to interact with a venomous reptile,educational or not ( I say venomous ,cause I can!The species and subspecific descriptions of the animals state that they are venomous, and cutting body parts out doesn't change their nomenclature)

LOL Sorry man...the sarcasm was noted and snickered at. I meant to just quote the first phrase..." If you are trying to show that herps aren't slimy evil things," and actually...some nearsighted NERD groupies might actually think that's the case lol...I cringed after I hit enter but there is no editing these posts

 

[SPJ]

1) What would you have done if you walked up to a show like this
I would have been furious and probably would have had an embarressed wife from the scene I would have caused letting everyone know that this type of display is unacceptable.

2) When you found out it was NERD would it have changed the way you would have handled it?
Yes. I would have made a BIGGER scene because they "should" know better.

3) Would you allow your child to pet a "Void"?
HELL NO!
I have non vens that I won't allow my kids to touch.
Only a moron would be so reckless with a void.

 

[DaveyFig]

1) What would you have done if you walked up to a show like this

I would have taken pictures with my camera phone, like the guy in the pink shirt. I betcha he told everyone he sent the pics to that they were venomoids too. I am sure he didn't just say "Rattlesnake" or "COBRA", as he was "educated" by NERD, and would have been able to convey everything that they told him about the animals they were using.
Honestly, I probably would have raised a stink, using tact of course, that would have led to some name calling, at which point I would have to find other ways to send my message.

2) When you found out it was NERD would it have changed the way you would have handled it?
Yeah, I probably would have taken them in the front of the building, rather than off to the side for their public beating, so that more people could see me make my point.

3) Would you allow your child to pet a "Void"?
I would never allow my daughter near a venomous snake, even if all the other little girls were doing it.

 

[IanV]

Quote:
Originally Posted by IanV
The pictures were removed from the website by the original poster. It does not look like any mod or admin removed them.


Are you a moderator or an administrator of that forum? If not please explain how you know they were not removed by a moderator or administrator seeing that if you are neither you can't view the logs for the site. Or do you have a crystal ball you can tell such things with?

Yes I am. Some of us get the full details before flying off the handle Brian.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IanV
But, if the parents were there and knew that the snakes were voided, and then OK'd it, that is more of the parents problem than NERDS.


And would you be willing to bet these parents don't know the fact that a venomoid can in some cases regenerate and become venomous again. I bet not. They were quite possible not as informed as you think they were.

And, quite possible, they were much more informed than you think they were.

Ian - stop apologizing for NERD...

Patrick, it is neither my place nor my duty to apologize for NERD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IanV
But I guess I am just an arse kisser, groupie and everything else applied to members of the NERD and BCF forums.


You said it I didn't. And we will leave it at that.

And the members of TRR are the ONLY ones on the net who are not groupies, I guess I finally figured it out.

1) What would you have done if you walked up to a show like this

Pulled whoever was in charge aside and figured out why they were using hots that close to kids.

2) When you found out it was NERD would it have changed the way you would have handled it?

No

3) Would you allow your child to pet a "Void"?

No, but I do not have children.

 

[SPJ]

Ian how can you still justify the crap they pulled?

I didn't specifically name people in the pics but in this case I will.

Do you think it is OK for Kevin to purposely provoke a cobra into striking?

Do you think it is OK for him to put two on the ground facing each other with the public right next to them?

Do you think it is OK to allow kids to pet potentially dangerous animals like these?

Do you think it is OK to just lie down next to these snakes and play with them? How fast can you react when you are lying down if something goes wrong?

You mean to tell me that Kevin or anyone else told the spectators to come on over and pet these cobras since they are venemoids but oh, by the way, even though they have been altered they still have large fangs that can cause a painful bite and there is a chance for infection and they may not be voids after all since they surgery may have been botched and there is a chance of regenration.

BS. I don't believe for a minute that any parent who was FULLY informed of the risks of freehandling a void would have allowed their children to pet them.

Get over yourself and admit that no explanation can justify the reckless display that NERD put on.

 

[CaptainSlackass]

And the members of TRR are the ONLY ones on the net who are not groupies, I guess I finally figured it out.

That's not fair, Ian. Most of the posters to this thread are members of many forums. I see that most are paid members of this forum for instance. If you'll look over at my profile at BCF you'll find that I've had more posts over there than I show at TRR. This isn't about cliques and it isn't about condoning anything. It isn't about stealing pictures and it isn't about taking sides. All of that stuff is just a distraction from the real issue.

This is about an industry leader that unfortunatley made a very bad move here. Do they do this sort of thing all the time? They have a good name, one of the best in the industry, and yet they've set a really horrible example here. I personally have always liked the folks at NERD. I've always enjoyed Kara's posts, and I've never had any issues with them at all. If this is typical behaviour for them, my opinion will change drastically. So will a lot of other people's opinions change. That's what we're all waiting to hear. What the Hell were they thinking?

Kara, if you're reading this, please let us know where you guys really stand on this. If you think it's no big deal, then tell us so. This is America, you're entitled to do what you want - but there's a whole lot of former and future customers of yours out here that want to know who exactly they've been supporting all these years. Is that asking too much?

I'm probably not going to be all that popular at BCF now. That's unfortunate, because I think by and large theres a really good bunch of people over there. But I've never been one to back down from something I believe in just because it might make me unpopular.

 

[SPJ]

One more question Ian since you seem to know so much about this spectacle.

Who was the underwriter for this day of lunacy?

I spend more on my liability insurance for presentations than I do for my house and new cars with full coverage and I don't display hots in public.

Wait, were they NOT insured for this? Surely they had a massive bond for the day or upped their existing coverage but wait, what insurance company is going to cover them when they purposely allow kids to touch cobras?

You premiums do NOT make a distinction between venemoids and fully hot snakes.

 

[Rockford]

Hey folks:

Arguing with Ian would be like arguing with your neighbor's dog. It's impossible.
Anyone remember the Snakesnare?http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65471&page=11&pp=5

I am guilty of it but let's stay on track and find out what NERD is going to say or do.

bthacker

 

[Rockford]

Captainslackass....What is BCF? Is that another forum?

 

[CaptainSlackass]

BCF = Bob Clark's Forum.

 

[IanV]

That's not fair, Ian.

No, it's not. I am a member of many of the same forums as you, and I know you from the BCF and I have no problems with you in the least. I however was not the one that started throwing the names groupy around (well, maybe on this thread but not on TRR).

Ian how can you still justify the crap they pulled?

I don't believe I have justified anything in this matter, and I have gone out and spoken against it, even though Kara is a great friend of mine.

I don't buy the regeneration talk, and I don't buy the talk that two large fangs will lead to more infection. A bite from a snake hurts, and you risk infection. Hell, I had a rat bite my thumb and that got infected and I ended up paying $600 dollars in medical bills and almost ended up in the hospital with a staph infection. Had I been as careless with a python bite, I would have had the same problem, possibly worse.

Get over yourself and admit that no explanation can justify the reckless display that NERD put on.

I don't seem to be the one here that is mad that people don't do exactly what I want them to.

 

[CaptainSlackass]

The folks at BCF and Nerd have always been pretty tight. I've never been to Nerd's forum, but I know that Kara is a very prominent member of BCF, and is very popular there.

 

[CaptainSlackass]

I don't buy the regeneration talk, and I don't buy the talk that two large fangs will lead to more infection.

If the surgery was a simple duct ligation, then YES they can regenerate. If the entire glands were removed I don't think they can regenerate. The fact is that these animals were supposedly rescues. Who knows who did the surgery... who knows how well it went, who knows if it was done in a garage or at a liscenced veterinary clinic. Actually, I'll bet that NERD knows, and I'd like to hear them make some kind of a statement about all of this. The whole problem with voids is that for something that is so potentially dangerous - there are NO established safety inspections, No protocols for how it is done, and in most cases it isn't even done legally. Unless you actually watched the procedure yourself, or have documentation from an actual veterinary clinic, guaranteeing the quality of the procedure - how can you trust these guys? Especially with children...

 

[Rebel Dragons]

All the childish bull**** aside, why is this thread continuing on? It has been established that NO ONE here supports playing with voids, especially near crowds and children.

I know many of you could go on for 100 more pages beating this dead horse. And if thats what y'all plan on doing more power to ya.

NERD is not going to post a reply. If they had, it would have happen by now. And to be honest with y'all, why would they want too? No one wants to dive head first into a fire pit. And that is exactly what this thread has turned into. A bunch of troglodytes waiting for there victim to make an appearance.

It is apparent that many of you have had a grudge against NERD for quite some time. There are even a few names that can be seen on this thread for hours and hours at one time. Have a life??? Spending that time sharpening your pitchforks???

It's a beautiful Sunday afternoon go BBQ or something, no need to sit here waiting for something that is never going to happen.

 

[IanV]

If the surgery was a simple duct ligation, then YES they can regenerate.

I thought the gland were always removed, I didn't know that sometimes they do a duct ligation. So I retract the statement that I don't buy the regeneration at all.

how can you trust these guys? Especially with children...

I wouldn't trust ANY snake with children. Kids are naturally inquisitive, and want to touch anything, and do not realize that a snake could bite them faster than anyone can react.
It was a dangerous situation, lets be glad that no one got hurt. But any time children around snakes, it is a potentially dangerous situation.

NERD is not going to post a reply. If they had, it would have happen by now. And to be honest with y'all, why would they want too? No one wants to dive head first into a fire pit. And that is exactly what this thread has turned into. A bunch of troglodytes waiting for there victim to make an appearance.

You don't have to worry about hurting our feeling, tell us how you really feel
I agree, no matter what NERD says it will not make certain people happy.
Very few are actually as concerned as they make it out to be, its just another reason to go on attack at NERD.

It's a beautiful Sunday afternoon go BBQ or something,

Best thing I have heard on this thread so far. We are pulling the pig out of the imu in about an hour