New forum needed?

[WebSlave]

Many of you can guess why I am posting this query now.

Trying to keep the flames out of the BOI is pretty much impossible to do. Once it gets started, the flames are rather difficult to extinguish without just shutting down the entire thread, which may close it off to more constructive discussions that could be forthcoming.

What is needed here? Do people just NEED a place where they can let it all hang out and cuss and fuss? Do they need a "no holds barred" forum with an "enter at your own risk" sign on the door?

Perhaps this site just needs a forum like that. One where I can move threads that have gotten way to far out of hand. I would like the BOI to be a place where logical and constrained discussions can take place about factual material and the logical perceptions and opinions of everyone willing to participate. Perhaps if I offer a place where flames are tolerated, would this help siphon off those flames from places where they are not wanted?

In keeping with the flames frame of mind and the likely way innocent folks may feel about such a place if they wander into it, I would likely call such a forum simply "HELL". Once a thread goes off the deep end with excessive viciousness and inventive, it will be consigned to HELL where the participants can continue on their merry way and leave the BOI to heal from the excised tumor. In effect, this would be the "BOI: HELL chapter". In a way it would be both punishment and carte blanche for the participants. Punishment because the thread got banished from the BOI, yet carte blanche for them to continue with their unacceptable actions in a place set up especially for that purpose.

Of course, then there is the problem of trying to determine at which point a good thread goes bad enough to be cast into HELL, now isn't there?

So would this help, or just make no difference what so ever? Or would it actually hurt things even more?

I'm not setting up a poll for this one, as I want to hear detailed reasons for what you may think about this.

 

[gmherps]

Is there not already a forum here like that called "Sound Off"?

 

[ms_terese]

Just a couple of thoughts...

1. There are sufficient forums for venting....SOUND OFF! for one.

2. Providing a new forum for flaming will only give the impression that it's appropriate and welcome behavior. Bad idea.

3. There are at any given time only a couple of people that are in heated attack mode. Rigorous enforcement of the rules and the subsequent point assessments will either get the point across or force them into a cooling off period.

Leave it as it is. I agree that starting a thread for "feud specific" topics is probably a good idea, and putting it in the Just for Laughs forum is PERFECT!

 

[elago]

Although it may sound like a good idea,

I believe that opening up such a forum may have the effect of people just posting whatever they want indiscriminately (which would mean a lot of moving forums for you). Difference of opinion seems to have tremendous ramifications in some instances however, which may or may not cause tempers to flare, but I agree it would be nice to have the harsh words isolated in a different area. But then again, what do I know? -Eric Lago

 

[Cheryl Marchek AKA JM]

I don't think the "Sound Off" board would be a good place to move it too. Thats more for "I'm just really mad about something that has nothing to do with any of the specific topic boards".........like last year when I was so mad at an insurance company that I didn't know what to do with myself anymore. I posted on sound-off, and got some good advice on how to rationally handle my situation WITHOUT a rifle and a bell tower.

I think Sound Off should be left as it is. It serves a usefull purpose as is.

I think Webslaves idea of a "Hell" area would be good. Big warnings on the forum that it is an enter at your own risk area. The designation for when it should be moved needs to be completely dependent on Webslaves descretion. Make that part of the board description~ Whenever a thread gets to the point that Webslave is in a position of considering locking it~ instead he can move it to Hell.

Is there anyway you can leave the beginning of an informative thread in place, close it, and transfer the back end of it to "Hell" that way no one can whine that thier usefull thread was Hijacked by bickering outsiders.

 

[Sasheena]

I think everyone here has a point, so I guess I'm on a fence... but cheryl did hit the nail on the head:

Is there anyway you can leave the beginning of an informative thread in place, close it, and transfer the back end of it to "Hell" that way no one can whine that thier usefull thread was Hijacked by bickering outsiders.

This is the biggest problem I saw... I've seen some useful threads that were suddenly turned into writhing soapbox (mixed metaphor)... the first half useful, the second half indeed belonging in hell. If this would be too much work/difficult, to sort of "cut in half" the thread, I think that "hell" would not work so well. In the event that you had to cut a thread in half, i would also suggest a 24 to 48 hour lockdown on the "severed" thread so that people wouldn't reply to the "good half" with more of the bickering stuff... a sort of healing period. But that is just my thought on the subject.

I have to say that one of the biggest attractions of this site is the (generally) cleanness which you often don't find... I went to the "War Rooms" (no offense to the person who runs it, as I'm sure it serves a purpose) but I am just a bit too finicky to expose myself to so much adolescent profanity and inanity as I found there in the ONE thread I read. I would hope that the profanity guards in place here would remain in place there.

Anyway, those are my befuddled thoughts.

 

[elago]

Amen, Sasheena

I viewed the War Rooms myself for the first time and was a tad appalled, frankly the only purpose there I saw was to make a mental note of who not to deal with, the opposite end of the spectrum of course would be a "Hell" forum could be incredibly useful in the aspect of showing the character of the poster(s) involved. Heck, even good guy threads can become a full-blown fiasco nowadays, and I agree that "cutting" the thread may very well be a darn good idea. Just my .02 on the topic, Eric Lago *MS Reptilian Hobbyists*

 

[LaBete]

For what it's worth ...
I'm not a regular poster here. My opinion may not count for anything to some readers.

The two main reasons I'm not a regular poster here is that I don't have a lot of transactions under my belt to give opinions on various breeders, dealers, etc. yet, and that I do not wish to get involved in any of the long-term disputes obvious to any newbie on his or her first visit.

I would LOVE to see the BOI as sort of a reference-check bureau, very businesslike, and not a repository for flames. I am aware there is a lot of history here and have done a lot of reading through very long threads on nights when I was bored and sleepless. I am sure there are very strong feelings held by many people in relation to these disputes, but I think it devalues the BOI to bring them up again and again in unrelated threads.

If I inquire about Business X, I don't want a response about Person Y unless Person Y is or was until recently or may be in the near future involved in the ownership, management, supply, husbandry, financing, or other business of Business X. Maybe that's just me, but what I'd like to see are the "Business X sold me three whatchajiggy snakes and they were in perfect health and arrived packed flawlessly" or "Business X has owed me over $1000 in unpaid invoices for over 90 days and I'll be happy to post scans of invoices and shipping records for proof if requested" responses that genuinely help a person determine if the risks of a transaction are worth taking.

If people are going to continue to post about these long term disputes and are going to do so in a way that doesn't reflect well on the BOI (particularly the name-calling, as far as I'm concerned -- there's always another way to say it without resorting to that), then I'd love to see them restricted to a Flaming Forum or as Rich put it, HELL, so that the BOI can get back to the business of being the BOI.

My $0.02, FWIW.

 

[Sybella]

I agree with the person that said that creating an environment for this type of behavior will only serve to condone it. What was wrong with the fine system for people who want to act like kindergarteners? Personally, I avoid a lot of threads because of the nastiness I see. I'd rather see it cleaned up than moved to a special room.

I would LOVE to see the BOI as sort of a reference-check bureau, very businesslike, and not a repository for flames.

Very nicely put, LaBete! Thank you!!

 

[Wilomn]

The only drawback to a hell forum is that it would become a joke in no tme. I used to frequent the war room as well but it is not any good for information, just flames. I know I know, coming from me that sounds not quite right, but I don't just flame. I do have information I'm either looking for or looking to expose. In an anything goes format it seems to sink to the lowest common denominator pretty quick.

I think your idea of individual thread being moved to just for laughs and letting the fueding parties have at it is a good one.

Wes Pollock

 

[KelliH]

I don't necessarily think there is a need for any new forum. I shudder to think there would ever be anything like The War Room here on the BOI. I think more along the lines that, in the case of an inquiry on a specific business and/or person, only those that have firsthand experience with the individual/business should be commenting on the threads. Seems like the flame wars get started when someone that has had no dealings or interactions with the individual/business in question jumps into a thread and starts, well..flaming. Just my $.02.

 

[LaBete]

quote:
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I would LOVE to see the BOI as sort of a reference-check bureau, very businesslike, and not a repository for flames.
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Very nicely put, LaBete! Thank you!!

Thanks, Sybella. I see the BOI as having so much potential that it seems a shame when it falls short of reaching it, like my perpetually under-achieving daughter. If what it is is the best it can be, then there's no sense complaining or trying to make it better, but that's not the case here. I think Rich does everything he reasonably can to give the BOI value, but it's up to the community to make it earn an A+ grade.

 

[Darin Chappell]

I think the very best thing to be done is what has been done already. Take the two (3,4, or more) protagonists, and place them in their own playpen in the "Just For Laughs" section. Allow them to bash each other to their hearts' content, but forbid them for doing so ANYWHERE else.

I would like to point out that I think actual facts ought to be postable material outside of the designated area, though. Two people may despise each other and act in a completely unprofessional manner most of the time toward one another, but even a blind squirrel finds an acorn every now and then!

I think putting them in the "JFL" sction says two things: A) We don't want this type of flaming on the BOI, and B) This is what we think of your little catfight with each other. Appropriate on all levels.

 

[sputnik]

SOUND OFF

I agree with Kelli, no need for more forums. We already have sound off and just for laughs anyway!

 

[Chris Kennard]

Great idea Webslave! Let 'er rip!

 

[Anaconda Al]

Excellent idea Webslave!

Bring it!

 

[elago]

LOL!

As long as I can see Webslave make a forum that tells the flamers to "go to Hell", I'll be satisfied!!!! Seriously though, I agree 100% that such forums should be moved, and agree that perhaps they should be placed in JFL as a statement of how serious juvenile posts should be taken. -Eric Lago *MS Reptilian Hobbyists*

 

[Brian Oakley]

I completely disagree with the idea of a 'no rules' room.

I have been in some pretty good debates in the years I have been on here and on other sites. In 99.9% of those, I have been professional and respectful of people. One that comes to mind where I was a little 'over board' was with Boa Pit (no hard feelings) on the thread about Damon (Brian Smith). I think the only thing this site is lacking is some maturity and SELF RESPECT/respect for others. People can make points, debate, or even flat out argue without all the complete trash that is thrown all over the place.

My opinion, bottom line is that people need to grow up and think before they speak. Understand that they CAN make their points, even if not agreed with, but do it in a tactful manner.

 

[Gary O]

The War Rooms!!!!!

Hey everyone. Just incase some do not know me I am Gary the owner of The Reptile Room. The Reptile Room is the home of The War Rooms mentioned in this thread.

I kinda feel honored that I was mentioned lol. Even if my War Room is looked down on.

Webslave.

If anyone knows about this type of forum it is I . So I will give you my thinking on this subject.

The War Rooms give a place for BS. I rarely ever have to move anything to that forum. All my members respect my rules and just take it there to begin with. I myself do not even enter my War Rooms that often. It gets heated in there. But it also comes with it's problems. Here is one for you that just happened a short time ago.

A person came onto my site and joined as Tony Nicoli. This person was not Tony!!! This person used Tony's name to say that he was in a bad deal and new about it from the start blah blah blah.So it does have it's down side. I had to make everyone post their names in that forum something like the BOI becasue of this.

Webslave I seen you joined my site so you can view the War Room. So you know what I am talking about. But if any other website admin could handle something like this, it would be you my friend.


I have tried to go away from the War Room and now made a Bar and Grill. It is a place to just chilll but no bashing people lol.

Do I think it is a good Idea? Yeah it will help but some will look down on you as they do me. I get told all the time because I host that forum I am bad myself or my 69 other forums are junk. I am judged by what other people post.

You can really see how someone is in a forum like that. But you know all this man.


You give people an inch and the do not take a mile.....They take ten miles!!!

I am not trying to advertise just giving you a sample kinda. Rich I think you are one of the fairest Message board owners around. And to tell you the truth I hope one day my board can just come close to what you have built here.

You are doing GREAT!

The Hell you speek of is real touchy. I hope you did not mind me making this post.

 

[WebSlave]

That's what this post is all about. Feedback. Sometimes a thought will pop into my mind because I just get frustrated with the whole darn thing and try to think of what kind of bandaid will help. Certainly there must be one out there somewhere that will do the job.

The Hell forum would not be a pleasant place, but many people look upon the BOI as that way anyway. Maybe some people just need a place like that, and giving them one will divert their attention from tbe BOI. Maybe not. But it would also be considered as punishment for someone's thread to be sent to Hell, so maybe there would be incentive to try to keep that from happening. Maybe not.

The Sound Off forum was supposed to be about everything BUT herp or animal related. The Jokes Forum was supposed to be for stuff to make you laugh and lighten up a bit. Neither one is really appropriate for what the Hell Forum would be for. It would basically be a garbage can with an open lid that people can still root around in if they desire to do so. The scrapings from the rest of the site would go in there.

Can I dissect a legitimate thread to remove offending material suitable for Hell? Yes, certainly. But some discretion will be needed since in most cases, flame wars start off with just a little flicker or spark, and not as a roaring fire immediately. Where to apply the scalpel will be a tough call to make.

Is this going to be more work to do? Probably. And quite honestly, the efforts I have to go through just to make this site beneficial to everyone are quite enough burden as it is. But a peculiar subset of humanity seems bent on destroying anything it touches, so this site is no exception. Perhaps some of those people don't even realize what they are doing, whereas others certainly know full well what they are up to.

And IF I decide to create this Hell Forum, and IF I find that the cure is worse than the illness, deleting it is no more trouble than the click of a button and it will be gone.

To answer another question, yes, basic profanity blocks will remain in place in such a forum. And yes, someone could certainly get themselves fined and suspended even from that place, although I would imagine anyone able to be evicted from Hell would have to be an extremely deviant personality. But it certainly would not surprise me in the least.

Is there such a word that would mean "Hell" and "garbage" all at the same time? Perhaps that would be a better term for such a forum as I am envisioning. Obviously I am not sold on the idea yet, and I am completely open to suggestions about this. All I REALLY want people to do is to act like mature adults on my site. Most people seem able to accomplish this without much strain, but others seem incapable of even recognizing the damage their own words are doing to them. Probably others don't really care, since they have no reputation to be concerned about anyway.

I'm just trying to figure out the right thing to do....