Info on record / Debbie Prince

[Masonexotics]

Interesting...dont you think a snake would crawl away from a heat source that it sensed too hot? being loose in the box would benefit the snake more than being contained.

Ed you do make me laugh, how long have you been involved with reptiles?


Never seen burns form unguarded/un-statted heatsources?

 

[Ed Clark]

if they did, snakes would never have burn marks from hugging lamps and malfunctioning heat rocks/mats.

That would be in a improper cold cage set up with an incorrect heat source I would think.

A snake in the wild will thermoregulate, how many wild snakes have you seen with burn marks from hugging lamps or heat rocks?

 

[Ed Clark]

Ed you do make me laugh


Never seen burns form unguarded/un-statted heatsources?

It makes me so happy to bring a smile to your face.


No I have never seen a burn on any snake in my collection.

 

[Miss Tuniwha]

That would be in a improper cold cage set up with an incorrect heat source I would think.

A snake in the wild will thermoregulate, how many wild snakes have you seen with burn marks from hugging lamps or heat rocks?

over the years, between random people, school pets, and pet stores.. a lot, the average person doesn't have a thermostat for a heat mat. etc.

 

[TattooLost]

I like how this whole argument has no bearing on anything at all. We can speculate all day long... We can post our opinions all day long.

You can think it's a genetic defect.
You can think it's heat related.
You can think it's IBD.
Hell, you can think the snake got into a batch of bad brownies for all I care.

When it comes down to it, this thread is supposed to help resolve the issues. Think the OP is bad, don't do business with her. Think the seller is bad, don't do business with her. Honestly though, the more arguing I see going on in here, makes me not want to do business with anyone. All the nitpicking and crap is getting kinda overboard. I've seen no solid evidence to support anyone's opinion, so it's just that. Opinions. What's that saying about opinions being like... ehh, nevermind.

I'm really curious about the health of the snake. I'm really curious about the outcome of this whole mess. I'm not so curious about everyone's take on what happened to the snake anymore, because honestly I THINK we're past that now.

 

[BalloonzForU]

Actually, I don't recall that part...and I just did a quick look through the first page and didn't find it (I admit that I didn't spend a lot of time in the mess that was her first few posts).
In post #6, she said: That statement would seem to contradict yours

I misread her first email to Debbie when Toni stated that "the car was a little loose" I missed the word "little". I can only think she meant it was loose as in limp after reading it again.

 

[BalloonzForU]

I like how this whole argument has no bearing on anything at all. We can speculate all day long... We can post our opinions all day long.

You can think it's a genetic defect.
You can think it's heat related.
You can think it's IBD.
Hell, you can think the snake got into a batch of bad brownies for all I care.

When it comes down to it, this thread is supposed to help resolve the issues. Think the OP is bad, don't do business with her. Think the seller is bad, don't do business with her. Honestly though, the more arguing I see going on in here, makes me not want to do business with anyone. All the nitpicking and crap is getting kinda overboard. I've seen no solid evidence to support anyone's opinion, so it's just that. Opinions. What's that saying about opinions being like... ehh, nevermind.

I'm really curious about the health of the snake. I'm really curious about the outcome of this whole mess. I'm not so curious about everyone's take on what happened to the snake anymore, because honestly I THINK we're past that now.

I agree this is pretty much over, since Toni and Debbie have come to an agreement that has resolved their issues.

However, wouldn't it be nice to know where something went wrong in the shipping so others even Debbie can learn what to do and what not to do when shipping?

Debbie explained why she used the box she did in her very first post, which would have been fine for the leopard geckos she is very familar with. Was the box too small for three 08 balls, IMHO yes. Was the foil needed to keep the box warm, for geckos yes, but we aren't talking about three geckos we are talking about three balls that maybe shouldn't have been in this size box to begin with. I'm sure Debbie has learned a many lessons in this whole ordeal as we all do when we make a mistake. She's not a bad person and IMHO did what she thought was right in the way she shipped the animals.

As for Debbie's explination of what she was going through when this all started, I've been there before and understand all the concerns of worrying about your baby having jaundice, it's scarry and heart renching having to watch your baby get pricked almost daily to check the levels. It's difficult to get blood from a newborn needed for the test and in times they litterally have to squeeze the baby's foot/leg to get more blood to come out, all the while the baby is screaming it's full head off and all you can do is sit there and watch. I'm not saying this is an excuse for the delays Debbie had but can give you an idea of what her state of mind was in her reply to the second email from Toni and why she may have not sounded too concerned.

 

[Ed Clark]

I like how this whole argument has no bearing on anything at all. We can speculate all day long... We can post our opinions all day long.

You can think it's a genetic defect.
You can think it's heat related.
You can think it's IBD.
Hell, you can think the snake got into a batch of bad brownies for all I care.

When it comes down to it, this thread is supposed to help resolve the issues. Think the OP is bad, don't do business with her. Think the seller is bad, don't do business with her. Honestly though, the more arguing I see going on in here, makes me not want to do business with anyone. All the nitpicking and crap is getting kinda overboard. I've seen no solid evidence to support anyone's opinion, so it's just that. Opinions. What's that saying about opinions being like... ehh, nevermind.

Its all discussion my friend, we discuss, discuss and discuss some more.

Then someone will bring out the beating the dead horse emot...then we will discuss some more.

 

[Ed Clark]

I agree this is pretty much over, since Toni and Debbie have come to an agreement that has resolved their issues.

Have they?

I seen that Toni was offered some money orders, I have not seen anywhere where Toni accepted that offer?

 

[wes smith]

This is the picture from the original ad in November.
View attachment 75709 http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121775
If this snake was in as bad of shape as Ed would have us believe when Debbie shipped it, then HOW did Debbie get the snake to pose for this picture????


The quote below is from a thread Debbie started in October about the caramel. http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=118992

Just thought I'd let you guys know..........I am holding one of the most beautiful (even though she's in shed!! LOL) caramel albinos I've seen!! John came through like a champ. He took great care in explaining how she's been cared for, what she's been fed, the works. Great transaction all around, and I just wanted everyone to know that it worked out well. Thanks again for the advice and support everyone!!

With the initial concern Debbie expressed in the above thread(from October), you would think she would have had more to say about a snake that "crawls on it's back"!!??!!??

So these "genetic" problems developed in 1 month's time ??????

 

[MikeCurtin]

What I have seen is far to many caramel albinos display the behavior just like that in the pics posted in this thread, I have had to put down caramels that were twisting, cork screwing, flipping over on their back and crawling upside down as bad as any spider ball. what I seen in the pics posted is the genetic defects of a caramel albino.

Will someone, anyone, who has seen this other than Ed please back him up on this....pretty please!

That caramel was shipped knowing before hand about the genetic defects that snake was displaying. it should have never been shipped.

Yet, you admittedly have no knowledge of the condition of the animal when it was shipped.

It certainly was not caused by a heat pack.

Right, because the snake was busy thermoregulating within the great outdoors that was the shipping box. Again, you have no knowledge of this.

You know, it's a good thing you don't breed or deal in BP's...otherwise, I'd be suspicious about the motivation of some of your input in this thread.

 

[KelliH]

Interesting...dont you think a snake would crawl away from a heat source that it sensed too hot? being loose in the box would benefit the snake more than being contained.

Not always, that's why sometimes snakes get burned. For some reason they don't always move away from the heat.

 

[Uroboros]

Of course they can be, with any other bp morph except a spider I may have considered that. It was winter when this bp was shipped.....overheating in the winter caused by a heat pack. my opinion is no way.

Maybe you may have overlooked that there were other bp's that were shipped in the same box that arrived in good condition.

Yes, I did read the thread.

Did you miss the part where you first said that you did not see the snake or witness it being packed, and then claim that it was shipped that way?

Alpha Dog must pull his head out and start looking around.

 

[Uroboros]

Of course they can be, with any other bp morph except a spider I may have considered that. It was winter when this bp was shipped.....overheating in the winter caused by a heat pack. my opinion is no way.

Maybe you may have overlooked that there were other bp's that were shipped in the same box that arrived in good condition.

And since the foil had fallen over during shipping, I'm certain that it fell evenly over all of the snakes instead of just laying right on top of one's head. Because that is WAY more plausible.

Or wait, the snake was loose. In a box. In winter. With a heat pack. Could the snake have crawled up and huddled next to the heat pack for an extended period of time because it was cold? Huh, probably not, right. I forget where I read that they might do that, wait it was in this thread, now who was it that said that, oh wait! It was Ed! Cold temp and a hot rock, right.

So, Ed Clark has seen a lot of neuro genetics in his caramels. Interesting.

 

[Masonexotics]

That would be in a improper cold cage set up with an incorrect heat source I would think.

A snake in the wild will thermoregulate, how many wild snakes have you seen with burn marks from hugging lamps or heat rocks?

It makes me so happy to bring a smile to your face.


No I have never seen a burn on any snake in my collection.

Thats not what I meant and you know it, I meant in general, you *DO* know that snake can burn themselves, unless you've had your eyes shut your whole career.


Why are we talking about snakes in the wild? This isn't a wild snake, it's a captive bred animal confined to a heated, insulated, undersized box.

 

[chondrogal]

I’ve been able to get the refund for Toni. There are three money orders, each for $500.

I’ve asked Dennis Hultman, and he’s agreed, that I can send him the MO’s, and Toni can send him my snake.

Dennis, I'm wondering if Toni has sent you this snake yet and how it's doing now? My fingers have been crossed that all turns out well here.

 

[Mooing Tricycle]

Dennis, I'm wondering if Toni has sent you this snake yet and how it's doing now? My fingers have been crossed that all turns out well here.

Yes im interested to know how this whole fiasco has turned out as well.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

As far as I know, Toni hasn't responded to the offer. I haven't heard from Debbie or Toni. My last correspondence was with Debbie when she purchased the money orders. She stated she sent the offer to Toni by email too. I haven't received word of anything else.

 

[Wolfy-hound]

I wonder why there's been no word? It was good of you to offer up space for the snake and to be the go-between Dennis. I hope this works out.

 

[147boas]

toni has some thing going on right now and cant respond at this time