We're on post #186 and I last posted on #123 ... 63 post ago, because I know on here if threads get to long, people stop reading them and they are counter productive. 20 of us in a chat channel one night were talking about something on this thread and I said I would PM her and lets see how long it takes before someone else heard what was said in that PM. As you can see it was less than 24 hours
I said that night, I was tired of all the games and twisted words and the same in Email to others.... my position has always been that it should not be business as usually when people knew they were spreading a virus. It does not matter if the dragons that are positive are healthy, sick, dying or the legendary mass die offs thrown around so often that no one but Bruce and Vicki say for drama. It does not matter if they received the best of care or worst of care.......... THEY
ALL CAN INFECT OTHER DRAGONS, and babies seem to be especially sensitive to it and some babies have died with the necropsy stating adenovirus, nothing else, adenovirus, not corona or dependo or parasites too....how can anyone in good conscious continue to put dragons like that into other peoples home or breeders colony without having the decency to inform them they were infecting them?
I have not hidden what I think of breeders that do that, I will not support then in doing that..... that is just sick and greed. All we can do is warn people and hope some take it to heart and avoid infection their own colony but not buying from them anymore. How many people on this thread would have wanted that information in their hands before buying from someone they did buy from and now have infected dragons? No matter what, I think that is irresponsible of ANY breeder doing it knowingly and we both know how long this has been known to be in what lines and from where. THAT is were history does matter.
No Vicki, it is not your “Do as I say.” and don’t ask any question's. It's some breeders business as usually cause we need the money off them and not giving a darn about the species or that they have and
continue to infect other's colonies.
The information I present is two statements by vet/researchers and their opinion which you have chosen to ignore and advise other breeders to ignore also..... for years.... its been business as usual and that has led to MANY infected colonies now. I do not speak for the doctors as you claim, read above...by Doctors who both say NOT TO BREED AND SELL THEM, I am not speaking for them, surely you can see the difference?
The last half of that paragraph I have no clue what you are talking about... what other professionals in bio and viro with reptiles who supplied info to both us and I supposedly never offered. How many times do we have to ask you WTH you are talking about as I have no idea what you are claiming here. I know no other professionals in viro or bio than the two who's info I put on my wenbsite except for the Dr from the Univ of PA who stated she never told Bruce what he claimed she did. The only things I have been given by any professional was the two on my site..... and if we both supposedly received this information,
where on your site is any of it?
I tired to offer something from the professionals so we have some sort of guide, even if not complete and perfect, it is more than is out there anywhere else. We all know that is going to take a lot of time and we have to be the responsible parties until them, NOT BUSINESS AS USUAL. You also know we already have helped in raising private funds for medical reptile research, including assisting in writing grant request and letters for support to the foundations on behalf of those researchers. I have the budget that was worked up by one researcher for a 2 year study in detail. None of this is new or just the past year, its been 5 years since you first emailed me from a post on KS and you knew what was going on, yet you do not share that info do you?
I am sure nothing more disturbing than what I have seen the last 7 months from people who claim you say things that are a total contridiction to what the 2 professionals who's info is on my site state. I even emailed you those and asked you outright about then, which you denied telling them that, so I guess all that say you told them this are liars too? You have one, which we all knew you would have in a matter of minutes, just like we all knew you and a few others would be all over this thread in minutes when it started talking about the where this came from or breeders still selling and spreading it. I can not ever remember stating anything you posted is irrelevant except the human/child adeno information which I think most people know reptile, other mammals and human virus are extremely different. That has been a common discussion many times in chat channel, emails and PM's, again, no big secret nor am I denying it.
Having to inbreed and make deformed and sick dragon to get trait? NO, that is not true. That is one way to do it, the bad way, it is
NOT the only way and certainly not the healthiest for the current or FUTURE generations. YOUi feel so bad someone put down any animals infected with a virus that was sold into their colony, but purposely breeding to get a high $$$ worth trait and having to put down those deformed and sicky babies is acceptable? What is wrong with this picture? I will tell you, the end results that make both of them acceptibe to some breeders is that the both generate more money. It is the fasted to the money way, that is the difference and as to your question about an albino and which would someone do? Personally, I think the person caring only about the money would rush to inbreed it, the person caring about the species would take their time and do it right with the animals best interest considered and the health for the future
Some might even be driven to hide from those that would want to exploit them as the pressure for the $$$$ is so great.
who is a good breeder and who is a bad one
I think good ones are those being responsible and not spreading this virus, the bad ones are the ones that cost other's loss of investment, time, heartbreak. life of the animals and income by infecting them when they could have taken another path, but elected not to and for the money. There aretwo separate views here and I do not think either will ever see the other side as they both have different agendas they think are right. There are those that this is their source of $$$ and as I said in my first post, they can not let go of that or what they need to do to keep it going and there are those that care about the species. It is easy to see the two camps and only time might make one see the other side, I think that time is running out as some have purposely created what they have been telling people for 5 years was their theory.
Best of wishes to all you that are having to deal with this as I know your dragons and you were innocent victims of it and I wish them all the best possible outcome and normal long lives. I have helped place dozens of positive dragons for breeder and many of those our personal vet will be following and the Universities, zoos or colleges that accepted them will also continue to followup. Hopefully they all will report what they find to the public and each other. Thank you all for doing the right thing because you know in your hearts it is the right thing and not because I ask it for anyone
