MFLuder
Member
Hello,
I am just going to put these details out there, as today I was deeply ashamed to be a part of this hobby I love so much. Our herp society ordered 12 sulcatas and 6 leopard tortoises from Elliott Maddux (Eweezyfosheezy) in Arizona. The transaction was handled by our acting VP, but we all (myself included) were involved in the purchase.
First, it was specified twice in email that the shipment was to be held for pickup, as we have had trouble in the past with the truck leaving shipments outside that are supposed to be signed for.
Email from us on October 17th:
"I don't know if it's like this everywhere, but I don't trust live animals on the FedEx truck here in Cheektowaga, so I like to pick up from the FedEx hub..."
Email from us on October 31st:
"They will need to be held for pickup at the following FedEx hub:
FedEx Express Ship Center
299 Cayuga Road
Cheektowaga, NY 14225"
Reply to the above:
"Ok sounds great."
Additional email from us on October 31st:
"Everything is set for hold for pick up at the 299 Cayuga Rd location, correct?"
Reply:
"It will go to whichever hub is closest to your address. I cant put the whole address of the hub, I just said hold for pickup..."
Our VP took the morning off from work to drive to the hub to pick them up. The FedEx hub had no shipment waiting. After much searching of the system, it was discovered that the shipment had gone out on the truck and was now being stored in the unheated warehouse. We were able to find it eventually. The FedEx lady said that the shipment was not specified to be held for pickup in the system, as we requested multiple times. It seems 'hold for pickup' was written on the package by the seller, but this doesn't mean anything to FedEx.
Anyway, enough about that... here is the real issue.
Upon opening the box, we were absolutely horrified with what we saw. This must be what border agents see in those oft-publicized shipments where animals are just poured unrestrained into a container (please see the attached image). The smell was absolutely revolting, as every poor tortoise was squirming in each other's feces. The animals were just dumped into a huge box with (literally) just a handful of shredded newspaper. Many of them were flipped upside down and all were not moving. The box was very cold inside (measured at around 55F) as one of the unrestrained styrofoam walls had collapsed due to all of the negative space inside for the tortoises to bang around. Also, the mishap with the shipment not being held for pickup as specified meant that the box was put into the freezing warehouse.
Also, please note the blood in the upper left corner of the Styrofoam bottom. It is unknown which one is bleeding (or if it is multiple animals), as a few have blood on them. They are all lethargic (eyes closed, tucked into their shell). Not even a warm soak would perk them up, so I will have to wait until they have rested to do complete assessments (though one in particular looks so close to death and has a revolting smell). I will update on their health. They may all very well survive, but that is not what's at issue here.
I have not yet contacted the seller, as there is no excuse for this. We have never really had a problem, and I would normally go to the seller first, but unless he is able to turn back the hands of time, there is no fixing this.
Our very small society (about 10 of us) puts through perhaps a half dozen or so orders a year, so out of 50 or so orders with the good guys here, we have come to know what constitutes appropriate shipping. In every instance the turtle, tortoise, or snake is either restrained in a small cloth bag, a sock, or some type of tupperware or deli container with a substrate to keep them immobile during shipment. The negative space surrounding the individually packaged animals is then filled with some type of packing material to keep them from moving around.
I am positive everyone reading this who has any experience with either shipping an animal or receiving an animal is absolutely appalled at the attached image (taken immediately after opening the package--we immediately righted the poor creatures that were hopelessly flipped onto their carapaces).
One of the ladies in our office broke down in tears, and that is when I felt so much shame for being part of this hobby that was just tainted so indelibly today by Elliott Maddux.
Elliott Maddux did include a heat pack in that huge vacant space. I don't know where it was originally affixed, but due to the extreme amount of banging around (those poor tortoises!) while flying across country, it must have become detached, as it can be seen in the photo lying in that mess of wet, fetid newspaper and barely struggling tortoises. Oh, removing the tape (that I assume held the heat pack to one of the surfaces) from the unfortunate tortoises that had become entangled and stuck to it was a real pleasure.
I hope this post has opened the eyes to anyone considering purchasing from this individual. If it wouldn't be such a black stain on our hobby, I would report him for improper shipping of live animals (but that would be shooting us all in the foot, so I will leave it here only).
All the best,
Michael Luder
I am just going to put these details out there, as today I was deeply ashamed to be a part of this hobby I love so much. Our herp society ordered 12 sulcatas and 6 leopard tortoises from Elliott Maddux (Eweezyfosheezy) in Arizona. The transaction was handled by our acting VP, but we all (myself included) were involved in the purchase.
First, it was specified twice in email that the shipment was to be held for pickup, as we have had trouble in the past with the truck leaving shipments outside that are supposed to be signed for.
Email from us on October 17th:
"I don't know if it's like this everywhere, but I don't trust live animals on the FedEx truck here in Cheektowaga, so I like to pick up from the FedEx hub..."
Email from us on October 31st:
"They will need to be held for pickup at the following FedEx hub:
FedEx Express Ship Center
299 Cayuga Road
Cheektowaga, NY 14225"
Reply to the above:
"Ok sounds great."
Additional email from us on October 31st:
"Everything is set for hold for pick up at the 299 Cayuga Rd location, correct?"
Reply:
"It will go to whichever hub is closest to your address. I cant put the whole address of the hub, I just said hold for pickup..."
Our VP took the morning off from work to drive to the hub to pick them up. The FedEx hub had no shipment waiting. After much searching of the system, it was discovered that the shipment had gone out on the truck and was now being stored in the unheated warehouse. We were able to find it eventually. The FedEx lady said that the shipment was not specified to be held for pickup in the system, as we requested multiple times. It seems 'hold for pickup' was written on the package by the seller, but this doesn't mean anything to FedEx.
Anyway, enough about that... here is the real issue.
Upon opening the box, we were absolutely horrified with what we saw. This must be what border agents see in those oft-publicized shipments where animals are just poured unrestrained into a container (please see the attached image). The smell was absolutely revolting, as every poor tortoise was squirming in each other's feces. The animals were just dumped into a huge box with (literally) just a handful of shredded newspaper. Many of them were flipped upside down and all were not moving. The box was very cold inside (measured at around 55F) as one of the unrestrained styrofoam walls had collapsed due to all of the negative space inside for the tortoises to bang around. Also, the mishap with the shipment not being held for pickup as specified meant that the box was put into the freezing warehouse.
Also, please note the blood in the upper left corner of the Styrofoam bottom. It is unknown which one is bleeding (or if it is multiple animals), as a few have blood on them. They are all lethargic (eyes closed, tucked into their shell). Not even a warm soak would perk them up, so I will have to wait until they have rested to do complete assessments (though one in particular looks so close to death and has a revolting smell). I will update on their health. They may all very well survive, but that is not what's at issue here.
I have not yet contacted the seller, as there is no excuse for this. We have never really had a problem, and I would normally go to the seller first, but unless he is able to turn back the hands of time, there is no fixing this.
Our very small society (about 10 of us) puts through perhaps a half dozen or so orders a year, so out of 50 or so orders with the good guys here, we have come to know what constitutes appropriate shipping. In every instance the turtle, tortoise, or snake is either restrained in a small cloth bag, a sock, or some type of tupperware or deli container with a substrate to keep them immobile during shipment. The negative space surrounding the individually packaged animals is then filled with some type of packing material to keep them from moving around.
I am positive everyone reading this who has any experience with either shipping an animal or receiving an animal is absolutely appalled at the attached image (taken immediately after opening the package--we immediately righted the poor creatures that were hopelessly flipped onto their carapaces).
One of the ladies in our office broke down in tears, and that is when I felt so much shame for being part of this hobby that was just tainted so indelibly today by Elliott Maddux.
Elliott Maddux did include a heat pack in that huge vacant space. I don't know where it was originally affixed, but due to the extreme amount of banging around (those poor tortoises!) while flying across country, it must have become detached, as it can be seen in the photo lying in that mess of wet, fetid newspaper and barely struggling tortoises. Oh, removing the tape (that I assume held the heat pack to one of the surfaces) from the unfortunate tortoises that had become entangled and stuck to it was a real pleasure.
I hope this post has opened the eyes to anyone considering purchasing from this individual. If it wouldn't be such a black stain on our hobby, I would report him for improper shipping of live animals (but that would be shooting us all in the foot, so I will leave it here only).
All the best,
Michael Luder
Those poor animals. I can't imagine what the seller was thinking when he shipped them like that. Seller should be notified of this thread, though I doubt he has any real defense for the state of these critters.