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Outback Snakehouse Are Cruel And Inhumane

I haven't been around for a while but I have to add my 2 cents to this post.
I did a trade with Mark last year and he sent me 5 snakes.
Everything was packaged very well and arrived in excellent shape.
I have no complaints about how he shipped or the quality of his animals.
 
I've also done business with Mark and Aimee. I spoke personaly with both of them, both are very knowledgable and sincere.Everything on their end was great, no problems(even with a knotted bag). I definately would not have wanted to open a box to find a loose scrub python,lol.
One other thing is I work at UPS in the evenings. They definatley treat ALL the boxes the same. The only difference is the obvious differnce in urgency of delivery, depending on the srvice used(ground,Next Day, 2nd Day,etc). And of course any snake,etc is totally prohibited. I understand the legal concerns, but as stated before shipping of reptiles has been tricky for sometime.

But I agree with the majority as well, Mark and Aimee seem to have handled things accordingly as usual.
 
Outback Good guys

I have had many business dealings with outback and have had no other outcome than perfect !!!!! Just my two cents.

Christian Kaleta
Predators Reptile Center
Mesa AZ:)
 
Well crap, I guess I'm a horrible snake keeper as I had 2 knotted and taped bags with adult amazon tree boas in them and I drove to pick them up! LoL They were also in an insulated box packed with newpaper sitting on the floor of the truck to keep them warm. I guess it's really bad that all 4 Amazon's I picked up in the fashion all ate within 2 days and one adult female was locked up with one of my males last night, a whole 6 days later. I guess we now all see how harmful these snake bagging practices are.
Rediculousness, if you want to know how Mark and Aimee ship, ask. I havetalked with them through PM and they seem like nice people. Unfortunately I have no other experience with them, but the shipping methods they use(with the exception of the Airborne thing I guess) see solid to me.
Adam
 
This is one of the silliest threads I've seen, LOL. Jeez....it amazes me how much some people THINK they know, yet in reality they know so little. :rolleyes:
 
You're right

David you're right - It's rediculous that this thread was posted by someone claiming so much and yet, proving nothing.
 
I live in Fort Worth, TX and I would not be happy if I received a shipment right now with no heat pack. While it may be getting up into the 60's during the day here, it is still gettting down into the 40's and 50's at night, and the mornings are shilly too. Was the snake in question a boid? If so than I don't blame the person for being upset that no heat pack was included. If it was a colubrid then lower temps (high 40's and 50's) probably won't cause problems and I apologize to outback Snakehouse if this is the case.
 
heat packs

I'm in Paris , Tx , about 150 miles N.E. of Fort Worth. I shipped out a pair of green tree pythons last week. They went to Brownsville , Tx. I use a styro lined box with no air holes and no heat packs. I was affraid the heat pack would be to much for the GTP. I shipped them through Airbounre w/ no problems. The only problem I have with Airbourne , is I have to wait to tape the box up till the driver gets there. She always has to see what I'm shipping out , just to see what wierd things I'm shipping out. Hell , she's even afraid of snakes but has no problems picking up my shipments. You should have seen the look on her face when I shipped out a 14 ft southern scrub python. Just my 2 cents , and that about all it's woth. Jeff Frey
 
slightly off topic question..

Hey Jeff, Just wondering, do you have official written permission from Airborne?

In 2002, I did. But according to DHL/Airborne's website, they no longer make exceptions.

Doesn't make a difference to me, I was just curious.

Stephen
 
However, to be fair, one of you wrote on page one, "The box was not labeled "live animal", as we all know Airborne will not knowingly accept live animals. When asked for the contents, perishable food items was the first thing that came to mind. It doesn't matter - they treat all boxes the same."

It seemed as if that post on page one, the first response to the complaint on the BOI, was written by Aimee, but that may be my misconception entirely. Quite frankly, that's one of the hazzards of having a husband and wife team with one fauna account. When there is not a specified "signature" on the post, no one can know from whom it is being posted. That's not normally a problem from either of you two, but in this case it causes some confusion to me.

Could you all clear up who wrote what, and how the first quotation jives with the second? Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...

In my first reply - I was at work, Aimee was at home with no internet access due to Adelphia's inadequate service.

I posted without asking her the details... And assumed she had told them it was a perishable food item. Not an unusual deal at all here... I've received many snakes through various companies, labeled as anything from glassware to steaks.

Later in the day, I spoke with Aimee, and she told me she didn't even state anything about the contents of the package. Therefore... The reciever interpreted "perishable" as food.

Yes, sharing an account here between a husband and wife can be confusing at times. But - we consider it a business account, and we see no need to have separate accounts to log in and log out of all the time. Just a personal preference.

I live in Fort Worth, TX and I would not be happy if I received a shipment right now with no heat pack. While it may be getting up into the 60's during the day here, it is still gettting down into the 40's and 50's at night, and the mornings are shilly too. Was the snake in question a boid? If so than I don't blame the person for being upset that no heat pack was included. If it was a colubrid then lower temps (high 40's and 50's) probably won't cause problems and I apologize to outback Snakehouse if this is the case.
Click to expand...

The snake was a Burmese Python. I made the judgement call, since I had just recently sent a snake out to a similar area. The only other way I could have handled this differently was to call the reciever, and ask them if they would like a heat pack in the box. As they sounded quite inexperienced in the shipping department, I figured it would not do a heck of a lot of good. On the other hand, they could have told me YES, and there is the possibility that the snake could have fried on the way to them. I'd be here explaining myself then, too.
 
As for their care of animals, Mark and Aimee sent me a photo recently of a bearded dragon (bred by us, bought by them through a 3rd party)...this dragon was extremely large for his age and looked VERY well cared for--easy to tell with a dragon. So nice and healthy, in fact, that his photo is up on our website as an example.
Click to expand...

Not to veer off-topic here... But Dana, you should see that dragon now :) He's 412 grams as of last night, and still not quite a year old! Absolutely stunning. I've got a nice menagerie of females lined up to meet him... Sandfire Red/Golds, and a few of our own mixes.

Mark
 
Thanks for clearing that up Mark.

I assumed that was something along the lines of what took place, but I think we all have to be as even-handed as we can. So, when there appears even the hint of a discrepancy, I try to ask for clarification, regardless of who it is.
 
On the other hand, they could have told me YES, and there is the possibility that the snake could have fried on the way to them. I'd be here explaining myself then, too.
Click to expand...

Not sure how the snake could have fried with a high temp of 60 degrees during the middle of the day (after the animal would already have been delivered) and lows in the 40's or at most lower 50's at night and in the early morning (when it would have been en route) but, hey, you're the shipper and it is up to you to pack the animal for whatever weather it could encounter on the way to its destination. If you thought it was fine to ship that way than that's your call. I was just pointing out that I wouldn't have been happy at all to receive a shipment minus heat pack with temps such as they have been the past week in Fort Worth, which is where the snake was sent. Especially a burmese python. Just my opinion, not important in the grand scheme of things though.;)
 
HEAT

Not sure how the snake could have fried with a high temp of 60 degrees during the middle of the day (after the animal would already have been delivered) and lows in the 40's or at most lower 50's at night and in the early morning (when it would have been en route) but, hey, you're the shipper and it is up to you to pack the animal for whatever weather it could encounter on the way to its destination. If you thought it was fine to ship that way than that's your call. I was just pointing out that I wouldn't have been happy at all to receive a shipment minus heat pack with temps such as they have been the past week in Fort Worth, which is where the snake was sent. Especially a burmese python. Just my opinion, not important in the grand scheme of things though.
Click to expand...

As Mark pointed out earlier, the snake was cooled before being shipped for several days to get it used to a possible lower temp while in transit.

It's a call you make in the best interests of the animal. In this case Mark can't win either way.

He did what he thought was right. As most people with shipping experience have pointed out, they would of done the same thing!
 
Not sure how the snake could have fried with a high temp of 60 degrees during the middle of the day (after the animal would already have been delivered) and lows in the 40's or at most lower 50's at night and in the early morning (when it would have been en route) but, hey, you're the shipper and it is up to you to pack the animal for whatever weather it could encounter on the way to its destination. If you thought it was fine to ship that way than that's your call. I was just pointing out that I wouldn't have been happy at all to receive a shipment minus heat pack with temps such as they have been the past week in Fort Worth, which is where the snake was sent. Especially a burmese python. Just my opinion, not important in the grand scheme of things though.
Click to expand...

Difference of opinion.

If the snake was to be shipped to you, and you wanted a heat pack, I would have put a heat pack in the box. Easy as that. But YOU Kelli, are not Deanna and Sam Gibson. You are Kelli Hammock whose name I know and trust, and I would never even second guess your judgement when it comes to shipping concerns. In other words, if the snake was sent to you, I would have done exactly what you told me to, nothing more, nothing else.

The shipping of reptiles through overnight services is by no means a science. It is more of an art, combined with a bit of good luck. Every one of us who has shipped out a reptile by utilizing an overnight service takes a chance. A gamble. If we were no willing to take that chance, we would not be selling animals online.
 
I assumed that was something along the lines of what took place, but I think we all have to be as even-handed as we can. So, when there appears even the hint of a discrepancy, I try to ask for clarification, regardless of who it is.
Click to expand...

Darin, thanks for not making that the next episode of "As the heat pack turns".
 
Mark-

No biggie, and you are right, it is a difference of opinion. All the other allegations they made seem fishy to me, but I do understand the concern about no heat pack.

I've shipped out a lot of animals in all kinds of weather and I always check Weather Dot Com and based on the information I gather from the site, I make a judgement call, as you did. I would have made a different call, but like you said, I am ME, not anyone else!

Shipping can be a pain in the rear at times, especially with two completely different temp ranges in both locations.
 
Is there really anymore that needs to be added?

This thread needs to die and go to the bottom. With the lack of participation from the original thread starter, I think it is obvious that someone jumped the gun on this post and were also not very informed when it comes to shipping snakes.

Do Mark and Aimee need to say anything else?
 
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