Bad Guy Outbackreptiles.com

[deborahbroadus]

As an unbiased observer and owner of a sweetheart of a gecko named Duchess (now weighting 80 grams).. I have to put in my two cents. To me the incident as many have stated has gone beyond being a matter of rectifying a "mistake" made to a customer.

For one, mistakes of this nature are IMPOSSIBLE to make if correct quarantine procedures are being followed. I am not so dumb enough to believe that someone just reached into a box and grabbed animals that were there and simply dumped them into a box without looking at them (they would at least have to count how many went into the box!)

Now, I admit that I am not versed in all the listed Gecko illnesses and diseases, but if any of those geckos had something that could spread..then putting ill geckos in with some healthy geckos was the height of carelessness! Not only did they apparently not quarantine, they also did not have the animals vet checked and, therefore; do not know the risk to which they exposed the healthy geckos.

With people pawning off infected snakes these days, I certainly would not purchase from any breeder that was so cavalier about their animals health, condoned purchasing starving animals (for whatever reason) that were obviously neglected/abused, and I know I don't purchase from people that have shown their word to be less than trustworthy (but that's just me).

Now, I was sincerely hoping that this was an isolated incident, and that Outback could explain how it happened so that we could all breath a sigh of relief and all would be right with the world once again...but somehow after reading the attempts to "explain" the situation away..I no longer think so.

Nevermind, scratch what I said...apparently I misunderstood how their operation worked.

 

[hhmoore]

Nevermind, scratch what I said...apparently I misunderstood how their operation worked.

<sigh>
Deborah, the purpose of my PM was not to negate your statement...I just wanted to point out a few of the things that were stated in the thread, and to give you a little more info on some things.
As I stated, I have NO information on the specific workings at Outback Reptiles...and I didn't mean to imply anything different.

Outback has both a large scale breeding operation, and a wholesale operation. My point was that the wholesale side is typically handled differently, and there are somewhat different expectations (ie thoughts and standards regarding quarantine, veterinary involvement, etc). The insights and comments I offered were based upon my own experiences with that side of things some years ago.

 

[deborahbroadus]

<sigh>
Deborah, the purpose of my PM was not to negate your statement...I just wanted to point out a few of the things that were stated in the thread, and to give you a little more info on some things.
As I stated, I have NO information on the specific workings at Outback Reptiles...and I didn't mean to imply anything different.

Outback has both a large scale breeding operation, and a wholesale operation. My point was that the wholesale side is typically handled differently, and there are somewhat different expectations (ie thoughts and standards regarding quarantine, veterinary involvement, etc). The insights and comments I offered were based upon my own experiences with that side of things some years ago.

You sighed? Go get some sleep.

I am sure our astute readers understand exactly what I was saying even though I may have worded the way the operation was handled incorrectly.

However, since you brought it here...My understanding is that even if the box was a box of incoming geckos that wasn't to be shipped out, it was still a purchase even though some were freebies, the whole was a purchase (no splitting hairs here).

Now since this was a purchase and there were some freebies and the box was set down. How did the people that packed up the box to ship to the OP know exactly how many were in there if they didn't count? If they knew, and didn't have to open and count..then this would go back to an indication of an intentional shipping (even if a number was written on the box..they would still need to be packed carefully).

The OP could explain how the animals were shipped, I don't think they would have just dumped them in a box...so apparently some care would have been taken? I believe that the OP purchased a set number of geckos..it would be very convenient if that recently purchased incoming box just happened to have that amount of geckos and further that it didn't need to be opened to check, didn't need to have the prior shipment label taken off (if one was on there).

Taking it further, if no shipping label was on there showing that it had recently been shipped to Outback, if perhaps they had gone and purchased the geckos, it still wouldn't explain how the box of geckos were just picked up and shipped out, they would still need to count them wouldn't they (if we accept the excuse of implied ignorance of what was in the box)?

All I see is no matter how it worked out..the excuses given made no sense. I would not buy from them.

Trying to work it out, I confuse even myself.

 

[critical bill]

Anybody in the mood to play a game? Its a lot of fun. Its called..."See if you can spot the scumbag liars".

I absolutely love this game, I always win.

We took a large group of leo's in on trade

Here Josh states the geckos came in on a trade.

My name is Mike and I work at Outback Reptiles caring for our animals. Sometimes when we buy large lots of geckos from people, they will toss in a few messed up, skinny, neglected geckos for free because they simply don't want to deal with them.

Here Mike states the geckos were purchased.

These were actually animals that came in from a large gecko breeder...

Here Ryan states that they came in from a breeder.

The geckos Josh shipped out were actually picked up the night before he shipped them out.

Here Ryan contradicts his earlier statement that the geckos "came in" from a breeder by stating that they were "picked up".

How do things "come in" when you have to "pick them up"?

Just for the record, that's three people from the same company that cant keep their stories straight.

But lets continue.....

Our leopard gecko guy is putting weight on them with xtra calcium to get them back on track before we sold them.

So they have a leopard gecko GUY that works with sick animals like these geckos. Very good.

I always work with the geckos that come in like that

Ok, so Mike is the leopard gecko GUY.

Outback Reptiles has a Volunteer who is a non-profit 501-C3 who does her best to provide geckos like the ones you saw posted

"Who does HER best"?

What is that about? HER?

I thought Mike worked with the geckos that come in like that?

Now there's a woman?

Or maybe Mike becomes nurse Michelle when sick leopard geckos arrive?

Your guess is as good as mine about that, but there is no guessing that these three clowns, Mike, Josh and Ryan are total liars.

 

[deborahbroadus]

Anybody in the mood to play a game? Its a lot of fun. Its called..."See if you can spot the scumbag liars".

I absolutely love this game, I always win.



Here Josh states the geckos came in on a trade.



Here Mike states the geckos were purchased.



Here Ryan states that they came in from a breeder.



Here Ryan contradicts his earlier statement that the geckos "came in" from a breeder by stating that they were "picked up".

How do things "come in" when you have to "pick them up"?

Just for the record, that's three people from the same company that cant keep their stories straight.

But lets continue.....



So they have a leopard gecko GUY that works with sick animals like these geckos. Very good.



Ok, so Mike is the leopard gecko GUY.



"Who does HER best"?

What is that about? HER?

I thought Mike worked with the geckos that come in like that?

Now there's a woman?

Or maybe Mike becomes nurse Michelle when sick leopard geckos arrive?

Your guess is as good as mine about that, but there is no guessing that these three clowns, Mike, Josh and Ryan are total liars.

DING!!!! WINNER! WINNER! CHICKEN DINNER!

 

[lanceheads]

Chuck flat out nailed it again!


Randal Berry

 

[critical bill]

Really though, its easy. Liars make it that easy. When you go into it lying the story is always going to change, and to the point it becomes so pathetically obvious.

But where is that coward Ian? He owns the place, doesn't he?

How insulting is it to all that he is sending over and serving up his lackeys for things that are ultimately his responsibility to answer for?

 

[R. Eventide]

Actually, Chuck, the first half of your argument doesn't hold water. (Not that I disagree with the overall sentiments...)

Mike stated that these particular geckos were received in a trade. The next comment ("sometimes when we buy large lots of geckos") does not refer to this particular instance. It says "sometimes when" not "this time when."

As for "came in" versus "picked up," you're arguing semantics. Snakes shipped to me "come in" to the place where I go "pick them up." If I said a new snake came in yesterday on one forum, and on another forum I said I picked up a new snake, I would not be lying in either place. Both statements are true.

The other half of your argument makes sense, as well as the overall sentiments, as I said. Just don't base your argument on taking every, single word someone says so literally.

 

[critical bill]

Actually, Chuck, the first half of your argument doesn't hold water.

You shared your interpretation of what you think they may have meant to say in what I quoted them as actually saying, and thats fine, but my approach is different.

Mean what you say and say what you mean. Simple as that.

One guy mixes up his story and I'm suspicious. But three guys?

Three guys, working in the same place, familiar with the same order, and each have a different version of how the geckos landed in their hands?

None of the three bothered to correct each other and state with any certainty how they were actually acquired.

So, that's enough for me to call and win the game. Booyah.

 

[Ed Clark]

Edward, answer me why you intentionally twisted Mikes words.

Oh Chuch....Bro, whats good for the goose.....

Actually, Chuck, the first half of your argument doesn't hold water.

Yes he was twisting words but it was such a good post !!

 

[critical bill]

Oh Chuch....Bro, whats good for the goose.....



Yes he was twisting words but it was such a good post !!

I did not twist anyone's words. I quoted exactly what they said in their posts.

But you got one thing right, it was such a good post.

 

[SPJ]

I just have one thing to say.
The pastel that died on me last year and cost me a small fortune in vet bills was from Ian.

 

[lanceheads]

Steve,
How long had you had the snake before it was ill? Or, was it sent to you ill?

Randal Berry

 

[Tony C]

I did not twist anyone's words. I quoted exactly what they said in their posts.

But you got one thing right, it was such a good post.

Can't argue with direct quotes, we have a winner.

 

[DAND]

Can't argue with direct quotes

Yet some do. (they said this but I'm sure they meant that)

 

[SPJ]

Steve,
How long had you had the snake before it was ill? Or, was it sent to you ill?

Randal Berry

I got it sick but didn't notice the bump on the head until too late.

 

[deborahbroadus]

I got it sick but didn't notice the bump on the head until too late.

Could you start a separate thread? An Info thread so that we can read the particulars of the situation (hopefully you kept all perenient info).




*I have had a similar situation happen to me, but nothing can be done, because by time I noticed something wasn't right, it was dead (not by the people in question).

 

[DAND]

I got it sick but didn't notice the bump on the head until too late.

It must have been one of those freebies from a "big breeder" that was supposed to have been rehabbed and given away for free but it was mistakenly shipped to you Steve.

 

[TailsWithScales]

It must have been one of those freebies from a "big breeder" that was supposed to have been rehabbed and given away for free but it was mistakenly shipped to you Steve.

 

[kmrkvicka]

I am so very grateful that this thread was brought to my attention. I had intentions of trading a '09 pinstripe female BP for an '07 DH Sunglow male rtb, poss. super hypo, poss. jungle. I had a few reservations after reading a few things written by Mike on another forum about bringing bps up to size quickly for breeding, and than I read this. I do believe that snake they are trading is as described, however, I would rather deal with people that are not as rude, and condescending as Mike has proved to be. I'm sure he won't be very happy with my response here, but I cannot risk the health and life of my baby bp knowing that quarantine is not a practice they partake in.

Unfortunately for the OP, generally speaking, restitution is either a refund of the animal, and/or veterinary bills paid up to, but not exceeding the price paid for the animal. The fact that all three geckos were "refunded," granted at $15 a piece, unfortunately I don't think there is cause for further "damages." Good luck with the baby geckos, and thank you for posting this, so I could see who I was truly dealing with