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passing on 3% to pay by Visa, MC illegal - Paypal follows same rules in U.S.

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pcsmicro

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I keep having people tell me to add 3% if I pay using paypal. It is illegal for the seller to invoke this charge with visa,mc,discover,Amex. etc. So I contacted paypal customer svc. and they said they follow the same regulations in the U.S. they stated: · Sellers residing in the United Kingdom and listing items for sale on a UK-based website may impose a surcharge, but only under the
following conditions:

1. Both the buyer and seller reside in the United Kingdom;

2. The purchase price is paid in pounds sterling;

3. The surcharge imposed by the seller is no greater than is
necessary to recover the receiving fees incurred by the seller;

4. The seller clearly indicates to the buyer prior to the
buyer's submission of a bid or (in non-auction transactions) prior to
completion of the purchase that a surcharge will be incurred and the
amount of the surcharge
 
So when "Joe" buys a snake from "Bob", it's illegal for "Bob" to charge the 3% fee that "Bob" gets hit with? Only in the UK is this legal? That sounds fair.:spinny:
 
I bet If one of these sellers went to Rex to buy a big screen tv and the cashier added 3% because they were paying with credit card, they would hit the roof. The fact is the seller makes the choice to have the convenience of accepting credit cards, and should pay the fee. By the way I accept over 10k a year in CC payments through Paypal for tattoo needles, so Im not just talking about something I have no idea about. It is simply the cost of doing business.
Dave Beller
 
Dave

Maybe this topic is more appropriate for the general business discussions. I was close to start a thread yesterday on the same topic after I saw the following posted in an ad:

...With the above deal if you would like to pay via payal you must agree to pay the 3% paypal fee!
Click to expand...

As it was said it is not legal. If the seller wants the benefits of using PayPal he should take care of the fee. The seller sets the asking price, right? How difficult is it for him to "inflate" his price by an additional 3%? If he wants to get $1,000 for an herp he should ask $1,030 and include the fee in the total price. Is it that hard?

Regards.
 
Well this is just another example of someone that is trying to act like a business without the responsibility. I e-mail just about everyone that I see advertising about charging the fee and inform them that it is not only against Federal Credit Card Laws but it Violates PayPal's TOS. Also depending on which State the person lives in it can violate their State Laws as well. I know California is one that it is against their State Law as well. Most the time when I inform the people of this they change their ads as they state "Oh I did not know that" and yet others get belligerent and tell me where to go and keep my nose out of their business. What really gets me is these people will sign up and just click "YES" for things without reading the entire TOS or rules. This happens not only with Paypal everyday but it also happens on this site. How many people just sign up and do not read the rules or Terms Of Service.
 
Correct me if I'm

wrong, but can't you, as a business, claim those paypal fees at the end of the year on your taxes as misc expenses?
After all it is an expense ones business has accured.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't you, as a business, claim those paypal fees at the end of the year on your taxes as misc expenses? After all it is an expense ones business has accured.
Click to expand...

Greg,

Maybe you are right. One way or the other your assumption is that all these business transactions are declared as such at the end of the year. Have you ever seen one of the well known establihed breeders ask for the 3% PayPal fee?

Regards.
 
TOO STUPID

As it was said it is not legal. If the seller wants the benefits of using PayPal he should take care of the fee. The seller sets the asking price, right? How difficult is it for him to "inflate" his price by an additional 3%? If he wants to get $1,000 for an herp he should ask $1,030 and include the fee in the total price. Is it that hard?
Click to expand...

I totally agree with this statement. A seller asking for the 3% is just asking for TROUBLE!

Building the 3% into the total price would be a SMART thing to do. Asking for the fee on top of the price is putting one's account at risk and giving the appearance of greed in the eyes of a buyer.

The whole thing is just plain stupid!
 
Greg, you make a good point about claiming the loss. Honestly I don't know if I can claim those fees. Its just a matter of laziness. The amount I would likely save on taxes by claiming such a small loss, isn't worth the effort to research whether I could claim it. I have a feeling it would amount to less than my wife spends on soda in a week....lol.
Dave Beller
 
Dave, it's worth it

I wrote off $15,000 this year for herp related expenses, most of it was small amounts too. It saved me $3700 in taxes.
 
Yes, the bank fees charged by your credit card processor or paypal can be written off as a business expense. All the little things you write off do add up over the year to make substantial savings.

Most businesses work the 3% into their overhead costs. Most product pricing is decided upon the following formula:

cost of product + cost of overhead X % Profit = Total Price.

I see a lot of people in the reptile industry that forget to include the cost of overhead into their pricing structure. Then at the end of the year they wonder why they have made no money with their projects.

Working the cost into price makes sense from a marketing standpoint as well since it is easier for the customer to take a total price. Most tend to get upset if your adding percents after the purchase price (they get that "used car sales" taste in their mouth). Plus in face to face sales with cash you are able to give a break to your customer.
 
Working the cost into price makes sense from a marketing standpoint as well since it is easier for the customer to take a total price. Most tend to get upset if your adding percents after the purchase price (they get that "used car sales" taste in their mouth). Plus in face to face sales with cash you are able to give a break to your customer.
Click to expand...

Very well said Daniel. A similar perception is when the shipping is added to an animal sold for a large sum. For eaxample a snake sold for $5,000 plus shipping. You are adding approximately 2% if shipping through airlines!!! It's like selling a hummer and stating in the ad it's going with an empty tank! The perception is you are being cheap. In the case of Pay Pal is even worse.

Regards.
 
Dwedeking, That makes a lot of since

Hey, Guys a lot of good posts here. with excellent content. I became so annoyed when I called or emailed inquiries on herps and was told of this extra fee. I never charged it. And I knew it was illegal for traditional cc's which paypal offers now. And I couldn't remember the tos for paypal. So I decided to find out once and for all. Just didn't sit well with me. I am glad to see I wasn't the only one this bothered. It's like upcharging for heatpacks on a fairly expensive animal I can see box charges for delta on an elaborate wooden crate maybe. but come on. this petty nickel dime stuff people try to push off on you, is just plain annoying if you want my opinion.
 
I willingly paid the paypal fee for a seller once, and it was on a wholesale order where the seller had asked for payment with a money order. It was the price to pay for a convenience that the seller didn't want to offer in the first place.

If I saw an ad asking for the paypal fee, I would almost always skip directly past it for the reasons stated- its a cost of doing business and rightly should be incorporated into the asking price.

If I contacted someone directly to make a purchase, and insisted on paying via paypal I would not necessarily have an issue with covering the fee.
 
If I contacted someone directly to make a purchase, and insisted on paying via paypal I would not necessarily have an issue with covering the fee.
Click to expand...

In that situation I agree with you. It was your choice and convenience to use Pay Pal.

Something similar happens when someone wants to pay me with a money order. If they are willing to send it "overnight" I deduct their cost ($13) from the asking price. Although I don't need to do that, it is convenient (to me). Why? Because regrettably, when someone tells you they sent a MO snail mail, you have to wait 3-5 days before you actually confirm it was sent in the first place. By paying the fee and having it sent overnight in 24h I know if the animal is sold or still available. Those two days can make the difference between loosing or not another prospective client.

Regards.
 
Something about heat pack and box charge fees anoyed me.

I have no problem paying or asking to be paid for such items on certain orders.

I look at it this way. If you are buying RETAIL you get the following in your shipping quote from ME.

EVERYTHING NEEDED TO GET THAT ANIMAL TO YOU SAFELY. Heat packs, styro lined box, new delis or bags, ect, ect.

However if you buy WHOLESALE from me, I MAY ask for some of the fees to be covered. When selling WHOLESALE your margin is VERY TIGHT. As such things do add up. Now I generally dont ask for additional fees, but at times I will.

1. If the shipment requires a VERY LARGE box I will charge up to a 15$ box fee.

2. If the shipment requires multiple heat or cold packs I MAY add thoose charges.

I personally ALWAYS pay a box fee when buying wholesale from my importer. For that I get what, a new box, whoo hoo. However the 15$ I pay them is well worth it as I do get a NEW BOX, A PROFESIONAL BOX, that has not had who knows what in it prior. I also get the delis and bags in the box.

I have made orders that required 4 large double tall boxes. In thoose boxes there were roughly 100 bags, and maybe 100 delis. Now why should the wholesaler have to pay for all of that, and still offer you a fair price. Thoose boxes are EXPENSIVE when you start talking 100's a week. Thats alot of overhead for just "shipping supplies". Generally its understood you pay for the box, and they pay for the delis/bags. And I feel its fair.

Also as stated before I dont mind the 3% pay pal on situations where the BUYER INSISTS ON PAYPAL and the seller WISHES NOT TO ACCEPT IT. I personally dont do this, but can see the point. You also have to remeber some people dont want the money to come pay pal, its not always about the 3%.

Mickey Hinkle
The Lizard King Reptiles
 
Bad experience with Reptile Dealer visa surcharge +

I am waiting to hear back from the reptile dealer in ? whom sold me (5) herps which I will leave at that for now. I am waiting for them to respond prior to revealing their information.

CB animals I was told. So not only did I have to send them extra money for using a credit card to pay with. I traded the (5) herps in ? to a friend with over 20 yrs experience, a breeder etc. he lost 2 of them. 40% death rate. I ordered 3 of the same type herps from another guy supposedly same source originally and none of them died. yet he was badmouthed by the same folks whom sold me the (5). So I emailed this scenario to them and asked them for their thoughts on this issue. And I will wait for their answer b4 I post on BOI of FaunaClassifieds.
 
heat pack charges
box charges
handling charges
shipping charges
3% charges.


I have paid them all at one time or another as a seller.

I must say I do not like it.
but yes it is a necessary evil sometimes.

I would much rather pay one KNOWN price.

If they add all that stuff in the price I would be much happier.

Do I want to pay $100 for a snake +heat pack charges + box charges + handling charges + shipping charges + 3 % charges.

or would I rather pay $250?

I don't know. But I hate all these extra charges.
 
The only time We charge for Boxes, Heat packs, other supplies is on wholesale orders. Even then there are alot of times that we don't charge them either. The margin of profit is very small for the most part on wholesale purchases therefore the expenses of these items must be passed on to the buyer but there are some orders that are wholesale purchases that I don't charge anything other than the shipping charge.
 
Selling to retail customers and selling to wholesale customers are night and day. Retail customers tend to only think about how much money comes out of their account to get their new pet to their house. Giving them a final price as soon as possible is the way to go.

Wholesale customer will usually have an understanding of how business works. They will want to see a breakdown of pricing so they know what the animals themselves cost for reselling purposes. They will also have a pretty good idea of the costs associated with deliverying their animals to them safely. Retail customers will get nervous with all these additional item costs that they are unsure if you're being honest in representing or padding the pricing to increase your margins.

Also I was told in selling retail to give your customers some choices but not too many. The more complicated the decision process the more likely they will not buy (too many forks at the road to allow them to choose "no"). So the more times you require them to decide on the purchase (price of the animal is one decision, credit card surcharge is another option to say no, shipping costs can cause them to say no, heat pack charge an option to say no, etc etc) the fewer sales you will get.
 
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