Info Paul Buckley of NY - questionable shipping practices

[jglass38]

I do not really see why this should have been a BOI thread either. Buyer: Email the seller and tell him you are unhappy with the way your snakes were shipped. Seller: Take note, learn from it, and go on.

I think way too many people just like to see their "name in lights," and post borderline BOI worthy threads to get an "at a boy" from the groupies.

I am not saying that Paul did an expert job shipping, what I am saying is, some things are better said in email.

Look at the title of the thread. Says it all. BOI thread warranted.

 

[David Reid]

Let's assume for the moment his shipping is questionable, why not send him an email and tell him you were not happy with the way the snakes were shipped. Give him a heads up on the correct way, or a better way, or attach a link to a shipping thread. I am at a loss why it came here...

Dave

 

[Shadera]

I honestly don't know Paul. Regardless of what my locale says in fauna, I've been living in Georgia for the past 3 years and I'm into leopard geckos, not snakes. However, I still stand by my original comments. Perhaps we should move the BOI to the Hell section for all the good it does in helping sellers and buyers resolve conflicts? I hardly see how this is supposed to convince people improve their shipping practices. All this name calling does is incite hatred, not cooperation, eagerness, or willingness to improve.

Feel free to purchase all his animals if you think this is okay for a seller to be doing.

Since when is saying "shame on you " name calling? I thought this was handled very well by the poster. He stated facts, posted pics and told the truth. Good enough for me. I want to know when someone takes these kind of shortcuts shipping.

Technically, I told him that if he did know better, then shame on him.

I do not really see why this should have been a BOI thread either. Buyer: Email the seller and tell him you are unhappy with the way your snakes were shipped. Seller: Take note, learn from it, and go on.

I think way too many people just like to see their "name in lights," and post borderline BOI worthy threads to get an "at a boy" from the groupies.

I am not saying that Paul did an expert job shipping, what I am saying is, some things are better said in email.

This DOES belong on the BOI. If someone ships snakes like this, you don't want to know? You'd rather find out on your own? Had I seen something about this sort of thing posted about him, I would never have done business with him. That's what the BOI is here for, to let others know when there's a person out there not on the up-and-up. Or, you can just feel free to put me on ignore if you find my posts so offensive, you've been on my ignore list for quite a while.

In summary, it is posted under the INFO prefix. It is just that. Info that someone thinking about making a purchase from Mr. Buckley can use to decide whether they want to take the chance the animals they buy might be shipped this way. You guys that say it doesn't belong here are free to feel that way, but I'd be willing to bet that you're way outnumbered when it comes to the number of people who would want to know this sort of detail.

 

[Khaman]

This is a perfect example of a good info thread on the BOI. Any shipper that defends such a craptastic shipping job as Mr. Buckley did as well as sees a need in leaving an animal to suffer longer in shipping by not using the correct service to ship as he is REQUIRED to do I would like to know about it, so I can avoid them.

 

[Fangthane]

That about sums it up.

 

[Masonexotics]

I think it was irresponsible of the buyer to post this on the BOI. This is not BOI material. I see a transaction where the buyer received snakes that may or may not have been packaged properly, and who wrote an unhappy email to the seller expressing her concerns using what was construed as inflammatory comments (ie. shame on you). The seller responded professionally considering he was obviously affronted, and even offered to make amends by having the buyer ship the animals back to him for a refund.

The situation was resolved, as far as the transaction was concerned. I see this posting as less of an actual bad business transaction and more of an incantation of the drama llama. Were the snakes improperly packaged? Perhaps, but the seller did what he could to resolve the disgruntled customer. Obviously the snakes ended up fine, since the buyer hasn't posted otherwise.

I have had several animals shipped to me improperly, and I have never posted the issue on the BOI because I managed to discreetly inform and educate the shipper without any public embarrassment. The end results were thankful shippers and improved shipping practices. Paul admits he has sent many animals using his shipping methods, and if he has an otherwise positive reputation in the business, then I doubt many (if any) animals arrived dead. I see this type of post as completely counterproductive, because now we have a seller who has been blasted by members of the fauna community for what easily could've been fixed behind the scenes and was fixed. Was it a mistake on his part? Probably, but is this kind of finger pointing and incendiary commentary necessary? I personally don't think this is productive in any way.

I am dismayed with how much self-righteous hatred I see on the BOI when a member of the reptile community stumbles in what is otherwise reputable and honorable business. I am saddened to see the BOI reduced to a Jerry Springer show.

~Vanessa Lane

Not BOI material?


Yeah, sure, people absolutely have no right to know this person can't ship snakes in a very nice fashion, sees no problem with it (and from what I can see breaking the lacey act too).Not to mention it would appear they are keeping/breeding these animals illegally. When dealing with hets (and even worse possible hets) thats not the best foundation upon which to build trust.

 

[DAND]

I do not really see why this should have been a BOI thread either. Buyer: Email the seller and tell him you are unhappy with the way your snakes were shipped. Seller: Take note, learn from it, and go on.

I think way too many people just like to see their "name in lights," and post borderline BOI worthy threads to get an "at a boy" from the groupies.

I am not saying that Paul did an expert job shipping, what I am saying is, some things are better said in email.

I disagree. Sometimes (most of the time) it takes someone seeing their name in lights to get someone to change there ways. Shadera could have e-mailed Paul until her little fingers were typed to the nub and he would still ship in the manner he has become accustomed to. If her posting here and having Paul's name in lights causes Paul to take pride in the way in which he sends out his animals in the future then the BOI has done it's job yet again.

 

[kmurphy]

I wouldn't have posted this here. IMO this is a case of someone attempting to do the best by their customer. There is no indication the Mr. Buckley attempted to cut corners "to save money", and there's no indication that he doesn't care for the animals.

Were the snakes well fed and healthy? If packaged correctly would the OP have been pleased with the transaction? So we are left with someone who incorrectly packaged the shipment not because they didn't care but because they thought they had a better way. Probably won't happen again, so some good probably will come of this. For the OP to go into a panic over the snakes being 90 degrees is ridiculous.

There's bigger fish to fry in my opinion.

 

[DAND]

I wouldn't have posted this here. IMO this is a case of someone attempting to do the best by their customer. There is no indication the Mr. Buckley attempted to cut corners "to save money", and there's no indication that he doesn't care for the animals.

Packing them as he did and sent afternoon delivery seems to contradict that statement be it by his ignorance or choice.

Were the snakes well fed and healthy? If packaged correctly would the OP have been pleased with the transaction?

Probably so but it WASN'T. But let's look at it this way, say you purchase a laptop from Best Buy. Afternoon delivery notwithstanding, it arrives in a used box, the laptop is packaged in another box that looks like it was picked up from the dumpster at the local Dollar store and the inside packing materials were obviously insufficient to insulate the laptop from being bounced around during transit. Who wouldn't be upset?

So we are left with someone who incorrectly packaged the shipment not because they didn't care but because they thought they had a better way.

I'm sorry but come on. You have someone who does thing his way, obviously wrong as you stated and you think he is going to change his ways without assistance like bringing it to the BOI? Paul has been around for sometime and should know better by now. There is no excuse whatsoever to pack them as he did and he certainly should know better NOT to have afternoon delivery.

Probably won't happen again, so some good probably will come of this. For the OP to go into a panic over the snakes being 90 degrees is ridiculous.

Let us all hope so.

There's bigger fish to fry in my opinion.

Packed like these were and sent out afternoon delivery and yes the bigger fish would fry.

 

[MiIguanaLvr]

This is a perfect example of a good info thread on the BOI. Any shipper that defends such a craptastic shipping job as Mr. Buckley did as well as sees a need in leaving an animal to suffer longer in shipping by not using the correct service to ship as he is REQUIRED to do I would like to know about it, so I can avoid them.

I am personally glad that this post is here. I am relatively new to herps and the ones I got first were all from a local rescue, so I never saw shipping materials, etc.
If I ordered a snake from this person, or anyone else for that matter, I would not know good packaging from bad. Threads like this show me and other newbies what is bad about it and why. It teaches others to be careful who they purchase from and will hopefully teach sellers what not to do.

JMHO

 

[kmurphy]

You're entitled to your opinion Dave and I am not trying to change it. Just adding mine to the thread and it also hasn't changed.

 

[Shadera]

I wouldn't have posted this here. IMO this is a case of someone attempting to do the best by their customer. There is no indication the Mr. Buckley attempted to cut corners "to save money", and there's no indication that he doesn't care for the animals.

Were the snakes well fed and healthy? If packaged correctly would the OP have been pleased with the transaction? So we are left with someone who incorrectly packaged the shipment not because they didn't care but because they thought they had a better way. Probably won't happen again, so some good probably will come of this. For the OP to go into a panic over the snakes being 90 degrees is ridiculous.

There's bigger fish to fry in my opinion.

You're entitled to your opinion of course, and I'm not trying to change that. Just trying to make my point that I'm allowed an opinion as well, and it's apparently shared by quite a bit of the reptile community given the contacts I have received about it. If someone else is happy with substandard shipping practices from a seller then so be it, many more of us would prefer to do business with sellers who do business with pride and care. I seriously doubt FedEx would approve of his shipping method either.

Yes, I would have been happy had they been packaged better. I'm justified in my "going into a panic" because those snakes spent about 12 hours in the back of that hot truck being jounced around. Had it been a bit hotter, they may not have been so lucky. This could very easily have been worse.

I'll be posting pictures later of their reproductive bits to get opinions, but even if they aren't what they were sent as the seller will probably just claim those aren't the animals he sent. And how can I prove him wrong on that? The genetic photo paperwork he mentioned sending in his emails didn't show up either. Very convenient. The smaller is thin, with a prominent backbone, and the larger is thin as well with a concave belly. Nothing a little good care won't fix, but I just want to make sure it's out there for the naysayers who think just because they got here alive means I should shut up. Most of us just hold the people we give our hard earned money to, to a higher standard. I paid $350 shipped for these animals before I was refunded for his mistake on the smaller one. As mentioned by someone else, the shipping practices don't leave much trust left for the genetics on these animals but there's no way I'm paying the shipping charges to send these back the way they should be shipped. As far as I'm concerned, I paid $250 for two normals. A handwritten tag on the bag claiming the genetics just doesn't sit well with me either but as said before the shipping is my big gripe and I'd have let everything else slide had they been packaged with any care. If someone else is comfortable buying from someone who ships like this then by all means go for it. I certainly won't stop you, but don't come crying back when you get burned and were warned.

 

[paul buckley]

shadera,

you've taken my shipping to the boi. it's here for all to see. forever.

lesson learned. but c'mon... now i actually have to come back and defend you stating they are under fed, backbones are showing, you think they are mis-sexed, and not what i stated they are genetically.

did i mistakenly kill your cat or something? throw me to wall for the next two weeks if you like over the shipping, but no one is going to say i do not sell healthy well fed snakes. you are now out of control and just railing on towards some crucifixion you seem to desperately want to happen here. its already happened over the shipping or did you miss that? now i have to read that i don't feed them, mis-sex them, and sell regulars as hets? please. really, enough.

trust that this post has done my future business great harm. is that not enough for you?

my snakes are very well fed. you are angry and seem to hate me so badly that you are digging for new topics to bury me under, and that is... hell, i dont know what that is; but if you want to come out ahead on this post - and of course you are at this point - then digging for other ways to bury me is not going to further your cause.

btw, here is what my ad says: i am happy to provide visual paperwork guaranteeing the genetics of my snakes.

so if you want it, just ask.

you do not know me. if you did, you'd know that i'm far from poor. far from it. selling false hets as you've now spun off into inferring that i probably do is going to make me what? a few hundred extra dollars per year? till someone says hey "those buckley hets never did pan out"... so what do i have, maybe two, three years of selling fake hets till someone like you buries me on the boi for selling them? all to make a few hundred bucks. i'm just not that person shadera. as much as you seem to want me to be.

i am truly beginning to dislike the idea of my animals being in your care at this point. please reconsider my offer of buying these back from you. i'll pay you for whatever sort of shipping you desire.

or heres something maybe you can live with since you probably believe i want them back so that i can hide the fact that they are not hets,as you seem to keep inferring. lets pick a neutral party from the group here. they get the snakes for free. i'll pay your expenses here plus an extra fee just to get you on board. that person can then report back to the boi immediately on the health of these animals, and then later on down the road as to whether these are hets or not.

if you disagree with this plan, then i'm not the one lying about the health and genetics of these snakes.

-paul

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

Being that they were nothing but possible hets to begin with, isn't it pretty impossible to prove that they were in truth possible hets if they don't prove out at all? I just don't see that being a viable suggestion (in favor of either of you) unless they actually turned out to be hets...If they don't turn out as hets, there's still the unknown and no one knows whether you were truthful or not. I just see that suggestion backfiring (good try though!).

 

[brandonsthaman]

As mentioned by someone else, the shipping practices don't leave much trust left for the genetics on these animals but there's no way I'm paying the shipping charges to send these back the way they should be shipped. As far as I'm concerned, I paid $250 for two normals. A handwritten tag on the bag claiming the genetics just doesn't sit well with me either but as said before the shipping is my big gripe and I'd have let everything else slide had they been packaged with any care.

I understand that you're upset about the shipping issue. I agree it was NOT acceptable. But why would you go from that issue, to basically calling him a liar about the genetics? I don't see any reason to think that there's intent to defraud you on the hets based on his poor decisions on packaging and shipping.

BTW: YOU were the only one that mentioned the genetics, no one else on this thread has mentioned it.

 

[paul buckley]

i REALLY want these snakes sent to a third party.

and one can BE proven out and the other has good odds.

here is what i sold shadera:

"she is the result of a visual albino male (also possibly het for pied) bred to a 100% het albino female (also possibly het for pied)."

"she is a 66% het pied, and also has a small chance of being het for albino.

she is the result of a 100% het pied/50% het albino male bred to a 100% het pied female. i am happy to provide visual paperwork guaranteeing the genetics of my snakes. there were three in the clutch... this gal and two visual pieds... her sister is in one of my other ads currently running. "

 

[Shadera]

I understand that you're upset about the shipping issue. I agree it was NOT acceptable. But why would you go from that issue, to basically calling him a liar about the genetics? I don't see any reason to think that there's intent to defraud you on the hets based on his poor decisions on packaging and shipping.

BTW: YOU were the only one that mentioned the genetics, no one else on this thread has mentioned it.

I said that given that he broke my trust by shipping them poorly, it doesn't leave much trust left to believe they are what he sold them to me as. I think I'm entitled to that, should I choose to feel this way. To some folks integrity isn't a big deal, but for me it's the biggest thing a seller should have.

And yes, it was mentioned by someone else here in this thread that given the shipping the genes they may or may not carry is questionable. Go back and read through the posts again if you don't believe me. I've got nothing to hide, and I am just making sure all the details are there.

In answer to a comment above, the one female is supposed to be 100% het albino, possible het pied. So at least one better prove, assuming that they were not affected too badly by their trip here to breed at a later date. If she does prove, I will be back to state that, and I am nothing if not a woman of my word.

These animals aren't going to possibly be going anywhere until they've been checked by my vet (no obligation to you of course, I don't expect others to pay vet bills I incur for my own peace of mind.) As much as I would seriously consider shipping them back because I feel violated, there's a much bigger part of me that keeps reminding me that if you cared so little for them as to ship them that way then they're better off here where they will get care if they need it. (I have quite a bit invested in my collection as well, and they get the best care I can give. I owe that to them as captives in my care, as well as my respect.) Not shipped off to the next person as they were shipped to me, perhaps to not be lucky enough to survive your cruelty this time. Don't challenge my integrity by saying that if I don't give them up then you're not the one lying. I never called you a liar in the first place, just said that I have little trust in you, and that goes for ALL of you not just genetics. You've already shown that you have no problem being deceptive. You still haven't answered questions about whether or not you know you're illegally keeping and breeding these animals.

 

[Shadera]

i REALLY want these snakes sent to a third party.

Given the way you have spoken to me, you have no claim to demand anything. They stay here, until I deem otherwise.

 

[brandonsthaman]

And yes, it was mentioned by someone else here in this thread that given the shipping the genes they may or may not carry is questionable. Go back and read through the posts again if you don't believe me. I've got nothing to hide, and I am just making sure all the details are there.

Thanks for the advice, but I already re-read the thread before making my post.

YOU were the only one who doubted genetics.

Given his response to his shipping method, I wouldn't be surprised if these turned out to be 100% het for nothing.

I have to agree with Paul here, it seems to me you have taken a shipping issue (one that the shipper has agreed was an error on his part and learned from) and turned it into an all-out attack. You can call the man a poor shipper; but to all-but call him a liar on the genetics and a possible criminal to boot? That seems to be quite a stretch IMHO...

 

[Shadera]

Not BOI material?


Yeah, sure, people absolutely have no right to know this person can't ship snakes in a very nice fashion, sees no problem with it (and from what I can see breaking the lacey act too).Not to mention it would appear they are keeping/breeding these animals illegally. When dealing with hets (and even worse possible hets) thats not the best foundation upon which to build trust.

No, I'm not.

You are free to make whatever assumptions about me that you wish based on what you perceive. You can even not do any business with me in the future, it won't hurt my feelings. But this is my experience with this person, including my thoughts that go along with it. You aren't me, so I can't expect you to see what I see or feel what I feel. As I said before, some people think nothing of doing business with shady folks, I prefer a higher standard.