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Info Paul Buckley of NY - questionable shipping practices

David Reid said:
No, here is what I am saying: She received snakes that she thought could have been shipped better/differently. She emailed him her opinion, and he somewhat agreed. THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN THE END OF IT. Instead, Shadera posted it here, why, because she wanted all the Fauna cronies to pat her on the back and give her attaboys. She should have, or at least could have, left it at the email, but instead, she brought it here, I think, for the attention.

I could get a snake shipped in a styrofoam line box, in deli cups or snake bags, with heat or cool packs,and then bitch and moan that I think there should have been a min/max thermometer in the box. Everyone has different expectations on shipping, and although I do think there is a bare minimum as far as shipping goes, I do not think Paul was so far under that line, to bring it here. I think the email to him was sufficiant.

I do not have anything against Shadera personally, not at all, but I think sometimes on the BOI, a mob mentality forms, and with all the possitive feedback she got about Pauls "poor" shipping, she took it to a new level, regarding the sexing of the Balls and the genetics. She went way past what was needed. I also think she acted irrationally regarding the snake's temps and taking them to a vet to check for Neurological problems. That is not a normal reaction, in my opinion. What is everyones hot spot set to in their ball racks? Now I know, in a rack, snakes can move off of the hot spot, but I would like to hear from a vet as to what temp and for what period of time, can cause heat related problems.

Dave
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Dave,

She didn't just receive snakes that she "thought" should be shipped differently. It is a fact that he not only shipped them piss poorly, he:

1. Used Standard Overnight rather than Priority Overnight violating his live reptiles certification with FedEx (if he even has one)
2, Violated the terms of the Lacey Act by not properly marking the shipment.
3. Apparently breeds Ball Pythons where they are illegal (NYC).

You better believe I, as a buyer, would put this on the BOI to warn others about this guy. That is what the BOI is for. Incidentally, Paul hasn't felt the need to address any of the items above. He didn't admit to his poor shipping practices until pressed. In fact, when she emailed him, he came back with a pompous attitude saying that is how he does it and has done it hundreds of times (I am paraphrasing so not to have to go back and find the exact quote). Even going so far as to say that his 2 padded mailers, couple pieces of cardboard and cell phone box offered more protection than a box with proper packing materials. This is just getting ridiculous now. You are wrong to try to skewer Shadera on this and you know it. You have gone too far and seem to have become one of those people who wants to "see their name in lights" as you accused Shadera of being.

Jamie
 
I do not need to see my name in lights. This will be my last post on the subject at hand. Here is my point for the third or fourth time....Shadera emailed her displeasure with his shipping, could have easily been the end of it.
 
Could have been the end of it, had it not been for all of the other issues that Jamie listed above, and especially with the attitude used in his response.
David Reid said:
I do not need to see my name in lights. This will be my last post on the subject at hand. Here is my point for the third or fourth time....Shadera emailed her displeasure with his shipping, could have easily been the end of it.
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I don't think their should be a question whether or not those snakes were shipped inappropriately. How they were shipped was unprofessional and dangerous. If anyone thinks that was appropriate shipping, I think they need to reevaluate safe shipping practices.

David, I think your analogy isn't an accurate one. At a minimum they should be shipped Priority Overnight, insulated, appropriately cupped or bagged inside of a box that has the correct freight classification and labeled. FedEx, for example, has a specific requirement for shipping with them that must be met or you will not pass your Certification and if caught shipping inappropriately, will lose it. By shipping the way he did he violated FedEx's policy and the federal governments policies.

People who do not ship correctly put not only the reptiles at risk, but also those of us who do ship correctly. If one of those snakes had escaped or died and stunk up the box would have red flagged FedEx. How would you feel if one of these individuals who knowingly ships inappropriately caused you to lose your reptile shipping rights?

Also, no where (that I can see) has Paul admitted to his horrid packaging, apologized for it and said he would never do it again. I only see excuses and claims of hundreds of packages being shipped out this way with no complaints.
 
David Reid said:
Here is my point for the third or fourth time....Shadera emailed her displeasure with his shipping, could have easily been the end of it.
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FWIW,
Shadera posted a thread about this shipment before bringing it to the BOI. While there were a number of posts that indicated she should post here based on the information at hand, there was also a suggestion that this posting be subject to the seller's response to the situations.
Unless I misread things, it was the seller's response that prompted this thread, as he failed to acknowledge any mistakes on his part.
seller's email said:
I have sent hundreds of snakes regular overnight – you are the first to complain about that and my packing skills. there are many ways to skin a cat, and styrofoam boxes are but one shipping method, and one I do use when I deem it necessary. I actually think the other way I pack snakes to give more protection, and absorption, and climate control.
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I can see how - even in the context used - Shadera's 'shame on you' comment could have been deemed insulting; and I think her reaction to the stated temperature was a bit extreme - but I can't fault her for being concerned...or for following through with a vet visit (after all, it could easily be argued that new arrivals should be inspected anyway...though most of us probably forego that step unless our experience gives us reason to think there is a problem).

This thread does provide some important information, and is food for thought for people considering a purchase from Paul. Note - I did not say that people should steer clear: Paul seemed to be interested in doing right by his customer; and, despite his (perceived) irritation over Shadera's comment, his response was that he would reimburse her if she wanted to send them back. At least now, a potential customer will know to question the specifics of a shipment...and have the chance to request something different if they feel so inclined.
 
David Reid said:
I do not need to see my name in lights. This will be my last post on the subject at hand. Here is my point for the third or fourth time....Shadera emailed her displeasure with his shipping, could have easily been the end of it.
Click to expand...

I for one am glad it was not the end of it. I buy new animals all the time to increase my breeding stock. This is exactly the kind of INFO we need to better help up select the kinds of breeders we want to buy from.

I DO NOT want to buy from someone I have to train in the proper way of shipping. If you have enough integrity in yourself and your business... then YOU will do the research on how to properly package and ship the animals that you spent so much time raising and caring for.
 
I too appreciate this being posted. I have purchased Ball Pythons from a few breeders in the past 6 years or so and have become accustomed to a specific type of shipping which was a reptile box with styro inserts, shredded paper, and either deli cups sealed with strong tape or snake bags with zip ties, and the paperwork for the hets and morphs.
Maybe I am wrong for assuming this, but I figured that ALL professional business orriented breeders shipped this way.:shrug01:
I myself would have been horrified to receive a box like that containing something that my hard earned dollars purchased. There was no respect for those snakes when shipped.
 
DAND said:
Not just look, but IS a mess. Shadera was correct when she said you should be ashamed packing like that. :NoNo:



And what color is the sky in your world?
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You are telling people to grow up and your very next post you call someone stupid like you are in grammar school. Sad, very sad. DAND

what are u giving me bad karma and talking about? i never called anyone stupid its like you have a h:censored:-on for me
 
th3jok3r said:
what are u giving me bad karma and talking about? i never called anyone stupid its like you have a h:censored:-on for me
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This isn't about you or your hurt feelings. We all get hit with negative karma sooner or later. Get over it. If you feel the need to continue the discussion with DAND, PMs would be the more appropriate way.
 
ApexPredatorBoids said:
This isn't about you or your hurt feelings. We all get hit with negative karma sooner or later. Get over it. If you feel the need to continue the discussion with DAND, PMs would be the more appropriate way.
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i want to make sure no one else makes that mistake because it looks as if im calling some one stupid when i am not
 
Yet again guys, these posts you're making now have nothing to do with the topic at hand, take it elsewhere, like pm's as suggested earlier. If you can't stay on topic, go elsewhere.
th3jok3r said:
along with dade who seems to keep knocking on my profile and bothering me
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aleria said:
Yet again guys, these posts you're making now have nothing to do with the topic at hand, take it elsewhere, like pm's as suggested earlier. If you can't stay on topic, go elsewhere.
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your right sorry about that

back to the topic at hand i wonder if mr. ship like crap will change his shipping ethics.
 
I know Paul posted at least once on here, not really resolving any of the questions people had of him, but I'd really like to know if he ever plans on coming back to address the very serious issues that were mentioned. Such as not just bad packaging but illegal packaging that breaks the shipping agreement, the lacey act and on top of that, possibly breeding a species that is illegal to breed in his area.
 
aleria said:
I know Paul posted at least once on here, not really resolving any of the questions people had of him, but I'd really like to know if he ever plans on coming back to address the very serious issues that were mentioned. Such as not just bad packaging but illegal packaging that breaks the shipping agreement, the lacey act and on top of that, possibly breeding a species that is illegal to breed in his area.
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the illegal thing im sorry but thats rough on someone if you live in an area your comfortable and your hobby becomes illegal... you cant jump on the man and expect him to just get rid of it all its a tough decision and he is willing to risk it all for his animals if he continues to do so but that is his choice. now the packaging idk what went through this mans mind when he put that box together. did he forget anything was going inside of that "box" and was going to go to a place far far away? he needs to get on here straighten things out apologize for the crap he calls a shipment and continue to move forward ppl make mistakes and cut corners after all we are all human but some corners are not meant to be cut this would be one of those corners
 
th3jok3r said:
the illegal thing im sorry but thats rough on someone if you live in an area your comfortable and your hobby becomes illegal... you cant jump on the man and expect him to just get rid of it all its a tough decision and he is willing to risk it all for his animals if he continues to do so but that is his choice. now the packaging idk what went through this mans mind when he put that box together. did he forget anything was going inside of that "box" and was going to go to a place far far away? he needs to get on here straighten things out apologize for the crap he calls a shipment and continue to move forward ppl make mistakes and cut corners after all we are all human but some corners are not meant to be cut this would be one of those corners
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If he continues to buy and sell animals in an area where it is ILLEGAL to keep them, he is potentially putting other people at risk because of those actions. Thats NOT right.
 
th3jok3r said:
the illegal thing im sorry but thats rough on someone if you live in an area your comfortable and your hobby becomes illegal... you cant jump on the man and expect him to just get rid of it all its a tough decision and he is willing to risk it all for his animals if he continues to do so but that is his choice.
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It is his choice if he decides to keep them, and keep his mouth shut. I am sure that many of us probably would.

But to knowingly break the law by continuing to buy, sell, and breed them is blatantly breaking the law.
 
I think the shipping was deplorable. I also think the buyer did exactly as she should when she EMAILED him and told him the shipping was unacceptable.

When he emailed back that his shipping was perfectly fine, and did not indicate he would begin shipping in a proper way, the buyer was completely justified in posting a BOI post, especailly since she titled it the way she did.

I would not want to buy from someone that ships that way, and believes is a good way to ship(As Paul stated himself).

Questioning the hets is inappropriate, IMHO. Unless you have some proof, mentioning it is a little inappropriate.

If he is breeding, selling, and keeping illegal animals that IS on him. Illegal keepers endanger the hobby for everyone. Shipping illegally(against FedEx terms too) also endangers the hobby. If they make your pets illegal, then you have to move. It sucks, but that's why we all try to support USARK and PIJAC, so that laws don't get passed. Boids have been illegal in NY for quite some time I think... it might be just NYC... not sure.
 
Mooing Tricycle said:
If he continues to buy and sell animals in an area where it is ILLEGAL to keep them, he is potentially putting other people at risk because of those actions. Thats NOT right.
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you are right i didnt even think about that i guess the breeding and selling is wrong and just a bad idea
 
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