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Info PayPal Myth - Beware

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Robert Walker

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I realize some of you on here might already know this, so this thread is for others who believe they are protected by PayPal when purchasing reptiles.

Up until 10 minutes ago, I believed, and have for years believed, I was protected by PayPal for live reptile purchases. The truth is PayPal does NOT cover "live animals" at all.

PayPal has its own list of items it does not cover for buyer protection, included in the list is (PayPal User Agreement section 13.3):
"Items that violate eBay’s Prohibited or Restricted Items Policy"

This takes you to Ebay's Prohibited and restricted items:
"animals and wildlife products – examples include live animals, mounted specimens, and ivory"

Paypal then states:
"Even if your payment is not eligible for PayPal Purchase Protection, you can file a Dispute and try to resolve the issue directly with the Seller; however, PayPal will generally not find in your favor if you escalate a Dispute to a Claim for an item which is not eligible for PayPal Purchase Protection."

Putting this out there so more people are aware that you are NOT covered by Paypal on your live animal purchase. Scammers know this, did you??? I didn't and unfortunately found out the hard way.

We have a PayPal facility in the next town and I have a friend who works there run me through all of this to make sure it was accurate. Good luck to all.
 
I'm glad you posted this. Up until a couple days ago I wasn't aware of this either. Really highlights cause for concern because the majority of our sales are handled via paypal. There needs to be a pay system like paypal but for reptiles and live animal sales.
 
I knew this and it is one of the many reasons I am about to stop taking paypal. But you will find that ALOT of the alternative ways of taking/sending money all hold the same stance on live animals.
 
PayPal may not protect you, but IIRC there's a way to link your credit card to a PayPal account, and you can use your credit card protections to start a dispute should it be needed.
 
This is an interesting concept Melinda. As of earlier today, I am currently in the process of putting this to the test (using your credit card to dispute PayPal charges) I have a 30 wait period before I can file my dispute.

I am curious if any one has successfully won this type of appeal, using their credit card to pull funds back from PayPal on a "live animal" issue. PayPal already closed my claim for the reason stated above. I now wonder if PayPal will fight the credit card or not.
 
Robert Walker said:
This is an interesting concept Melinda. As of earlier today, I am currently in the process of putting this to the test (using your credit card to dispute PayPal charges) I have a 30 wait period before I can file my dispute.

I am curious if any one has successfully won this type of appeal, using their credit card to pull funds back from PayPal on a "live animal" issue. PayPal already closed my claim for the reason stated above. I now wonder if PayPal will fight the credit card or not.
Click to expand...
Post #5: http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=418790

Posts #14-end: http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=416806&page=2

I would PM those folks and ask for their experiences when they filed the dispute with the CC company, or ask that they add them to your thread.
 
Paypal Scam

Hello Robert. Yes, Paypal is a very easy way for scammers to buy your reptiles and then not pay for them. Very simply Paypal does nothing to protect "sellers" with respect to selling live animals. Scammers know this and continue to insist paying vendors with Paypal. There are still a lot of vendors that believe Paypal is the next best thing to Ice Cream. It's just the count down until those people get ripped off, and it will happen.

Example: Scammers choice! Pick any animal for sale here in the US. It does not matter the amount $1000, $5000, $10,000. Go buy it using Paypal, and pay with your own bank Visa Debit/Credit card. Then, after the animal arrives, just simply call your bank and dispute the charges saying the item you purchased was not "as described." Your bank reverses the charge or charges, and the scammer gets to keep the animal! Both your bank or Paypal could care less if you return the animal! Yes, It is ridiculous, but true! Paypal gets notification that the customer's bank has reversed the charge and Paypal will do nothing because of what you listed in the TOS. So, yes! Paypal works great for the scamming buyers!

How do I know this? It happened to me about 6 years ago! I lost over $4,000. I was an avid Ebayer and a member in good standing with Paypal for a very long time. Then, when this happened I learned that many fall victim to this crime. I spent many hours on the phone with the Paypal Customer Dispute department, and the workers told me that they had cases like mine on a daily basis. Here is the kicker! These were recorded calls and the workers in the dispute department for Paypal told me they would not allow there "own families" to use Paypal because of all the cases they handle on a weekly basis! Hope this helps!
 
Thank you Tonya, David, Melinda & Joe for your thoughts and ideas.
My credit card waived my 30 day wait period only because Paypal "closed the case". I submitted the required paperwork, time will tell at this point.

Sounds like I am one of the only bozos still out here that thought PayPal buyer protection actually worked, my bad.

Perhaps someone else will avoid the same trap. When I initially posted that I got scammed, others contacted me and said they had too, but embarrassment stopped them from saying something. I am far from being embarrassed, it happened, it sucks, so now I am "fighting" the system and scammer by posting as much info as I can to warn and educate others.

Thanks again for all your thoughts!
 
Your are welcome Robert. I just wanted to share my experience on the selling end. I guess Paypal screws people both ways... Buying and Selling! By the way, I was not kidding when I said Paypal employees don't allow their own families to use Paypal! Hopefully you didn't get burned for as much as I did! Paypal SUCKS!
 
WHy anytime i sell something on Paypal. I go right to ATM and withdraw the money so theres nothing in there.

I been scammed too many times via paypal not protecting my sales.
 
Yes, I have used the credit card protection option when paypal did nothing. The BOI thread is HERE, post #7 confirms that I got a full refund via my credit card company. Basically I sent them all of my correspondence with the person and with paypal and they refunded me after a short time. As I state in the post, paypal also said that they could only refund me if there was money left in the person's account. So in other words if a person creates a paypal account scams you and then stops using that account, there is nothing paypal can do to refund you even if they find in your favor.

Cheers,

Kyle
 
Rhacosaurus Gex said:
So, what is the best alternative to paypal?
Click to expand...

This ^. I'm really not aware of anything else that is as easy. To me it would seem the most fool-proof alternative would be money orders, but that of course takes him/cashing. Paypal is immediate.

I'd like to hear what you 'vets' use that you dislike paypal so much.
 
GOOGLE checkout is an option - they originally cancelled the accounts of people that sold animals; but they reversed that decision. I never went back, but some did.
The other option is to take credit cards - most, if not all, of the mobile swipers offer some option for keying in the card number. There is a higher fee than for swiping, and it necessitates real time contact, but it's a choice.

The thing is, scammers will scam. PayPal isn't without its faults; but many legitimate buyers will balk at having to use a different option, because PayPal has the name recognition. Faced with having to call somebody to make payment, or purchase from somebody else with PayPal...most of the time I'm not going to pick up the phone.

(PayPal processes payments, and doesn't provide the details to the seller. How comfortable are you just giving random people your name, address, credit card number, expiration date, and magic 3 digit code?)
 
hhmoore said:
GOOGLE checkout is an option - they originally cancelled the accounts of people that sold animals; but they reversed that decision. I never went back, but some did.
The other option is to take credit cards - most, if not all, of the mobile swipers offer some option for keying in the card number. There is a higher fee than for swiping, and it necessitates real time contact, but it's a choice.

The thing is, scammers will scam. PayPal isn't without its faults; but many legitimate buyers will balk at having to use a different option, because PayPal has the name recognition. Faced with having to call somebody to make payment, or purchase from somebody else with PayPal...most of the time I'm not going to pick up the phone.

(PayPal processes payments, and doesn't provide the details to the seller. How comfortable are you just giving random people your name, address, credit card number, expiration date, and magic 3 digit code?)
Click to expand...

As a buyer, money orders are no protection either. Send the money order, they have their money. If you don't receive anything, you're screwed. If it's a USPS money order you could charge them with postal fraud, but that won't get you your animal or money. Western Union is the same way and has other scams connected with it. At least you can win a dispute with Paypal if the seller fails to send the animal.
 
treeboa said:
At least you can win a dispute with Paypal if the seller fails to send the animal.
Click to expand...

Your scenario would sound logical, however, Paypal clearly says the opposite since "the seller fails to send the animal". This assumption that they have your back is the whole reason I started this thread, it simply is inaccurate.

What if the seller sends you a box of marbles instead of your reptile. They have technically sent you a verified traceable package, but you get stuck with marbles. What recourse do you have with PayPal, you are still engaged in a "live animal" transaction and therefore have no leg to stand on.
 
hhmoore said:
GOOGLE checkout is an option - they originally cancelled the accounts of people that sold animals; but they reversed that decision. I never went back, but some did.
The other option is to take credit cards - most, if not all, of the mobile swipers offer some option for keying in the card number. There is a higher fee than for swiping, and it necessitates real time contact, but it's a choice.

The thing is, scammers will scam. PayPal isn't without its faults; but many legitimate buyers will balk at having to use a different option, because PayPal has the name recognition. Faced with having to call somebody to make payment, or purchase from somebody else with PayPal...most of the time I'm not going to pick up the phone.

(PayPal processes payments, and doesn't provide the details to the seller. How comfortable are you just giving random people your name, address, credit card number, expiration date, and magic 3 digit code?)
Click to expand...

As a buyer, money orders are no protection either. Send the money order, they have their money. If you don't receive anything, you're screwed. If it's a USPS money order you could charge them with postal fraud, but that won't get you your animal or money. Western Union is the same way and has other scams connected with it. At least you can win a dispute with Paypal if the seller fails to send the animal.
 
SERPENTS DEN said:
It becomes a felony crime to fraud or scam someone if payments are made using US Postal Money Orders so it protects both the buyer and seller.
Click to expand...

Yep,, they go to jail (maybe) and you're still out your animal and money. Deters some, but this board is full of people who don't look at the big picture and will do anything for a quick buck.
 
Robert Walker said:
Your scenario would sound logical, however, Paypal clearly says the opposite since "the seller fails to send the animal". This assumption that they have your back is the whole reason I started this thread, it simply is inaccurate.

What if the seller sends you a box of marbles instead of your reptile. They have technically sent you a verified traceable package, but you get stuck with marbles. What recourse do you have with PayPal, you are still engaged in a "live animal" transaction and therefore have no leg to stand on.
Click to expand...

The box of marbles thing could happen, but if they fail to ship, they fail to ship it doesn't matter what the good is. Plenty of people have won disputes on this situation.
 
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