Bad Guy Perfect Predators..unreliable

[Fangthane]

Also to the OP. if you are using the het pieds primarily for breeding why such a rush. If it were me I would be thankful to Manuel for takin the time to get them all feeding perfectly. It's doing the work for you and it's not like you can breed them anyway at this age.

My .02.

Well, I suppose that's one way to spin it. Personally, I wouldn't be very happy about having any semblance of a choice taken out of my hands. If the ad doesn't specifically warn against a delayed shipment, there's a certain expectation that a buyer should receive what he paid for in a timely manner. Based on the email exchanges, it seems pretty clear that, even several weeks ago, they were well-started, in terms of how reliably they ate.

Not arguing there, but judging by the extreme levels of OP's frustration and his need for the animals immediately and the unwillingness to wait it out, there really is no other option for OP.

PP/OP - please post when refund has been made.

The seller has had more than enough time to have sent the snakes out. How long should someone have to "wait it out" before their frustration is considered justifiable? It's not as if this transaction happened a few days ago, and the buyer is being irrational in wanting immediate satisfaction.

 

[tommyhil4_6]

Done deal. I say Good luck to all parties involved!

 

[John Willis SOE]

and post post to the facebook capture is from Friday when Chris started contacting you after giving Amanda the run around for over 3 weeks. You never said "I sold your three, or I oversold them and have some other to get ready. You said every time they were fed and will ship next week. You never said "I have to grow some more up".

 

[Kilzac]

I spoke with an amanda or allisa and told her in plain English i would rather refund if this is a rush for her, her words were "I rather the animals" i said ok well i'll get them out as soon as they are good to ship. I also said it to someone from over the facebook and their answer was "the animals were needed for a project." Delays happen and "a bad guy" does not offer to refund multiple times. I think you should apologize to everyone on this BOI as this place is supposed to saved for real problems and not to be abused. I have attached 2 links: 1 with my suggestion to credit last week, and your reply and the other with the credit issued. This is my last reply as this is a total waste of time for me and everyone wasting their time even entertaining this thread.

GOOD GUY OUT! PEACE!!!!

https://perfectpredators.3dcartstores.com/assets/images/refund/refund33.JPG

https://perfectpredators.3dcartstores.com/assets/images/refund/Refund34.PNG

Now I'm not saying the OP is 100% right but your last post was quite unprofessional. The BOI is used for all information and experiences. The way you conducted yourself came off as rather cocky and smug. As I was thought, the customer is always right. It's better o just bite your tongue instead of going off like that.

Again, my .02

 

[tommyhil4_6]

Well, I suppose that's one way to spin it. Personally, I wouldn't be very happy about having any semblance of a choice taken out of my hands. If the ad doesn't specifically warn against a delayed shipment, there's a certain expectation that a buyer should receive what he paid for in a timely manner. Based on the email exchanges, it seems pretty clear that, even several weeks ago, they were well-started, in terms of how reliably they ate.

The seller has had more than enough time to have sent the snakes out. How long should someone have to "wait it out" before their frustration is considered justifiable? It's not as if this transaction happened a few days ago, and the buyer is being irrational in wanting immediate satisfaction.

I agree with this to a point. It was unfortunate that the animals were represented as "ready to go" ie: to me and about everyone else believes they have shed several times and eating wonderfully.

It was a mistake on PP's part obviously not declaring that issue. I am a small time seller and am up front with the snakes/eating practice/shed etc.

To assume that an immediate satisfactory conclusion by sending the non-feeding snakes is pushing it though. YES, they were mis-represented. YES, they should have been ready to ship and shipped when said. BUT, remember ABOVE ALL ELSE, the health of the snakes is number one.

I do stand by the idea of NOT shipping ANY snake until it is deemed healthy and strong/viable enough to a) survive transit b) acclimate properly c) thrive in purchasers collection.

If Manny were to ship these snakes, albeit mis-represented as ready to go... then something ill-fated happens to one/2/3 of them and they do not take to food and die. Then it's on Manny as well for sending a snake that cannot thrive.

IN THIS CASE: My 0.2 believes that yes Manny could have taken a minute to lay the situation out and be up front and follow through in ONE ASPECT OR ANOTHER. But, IF THE SNAKES are not in a condition to be shipped and immediate resolution is necessary then the refund was the only option.

Obviously the OP/Boss of OP are running and operation etc. Quality Control is always important! So is communication. The OP/Boss paid for herps, did not receive them etc. It isn't about would PP ship, but legitimately being worried about the snakes viability is important as well. These ARE living creatures and should have every chance regardless of wait time to become strong enough for sale.

That was Mannie's single biggest mistake, not labeling them as "non-feeding".

 

[John Willis SOE]

There was no question of feeding or not feeding. You can se his own words he typed himself saying the snakes ate like a champ,took a meal to big for them. Bla bla bla,they will ship next week. This went on for 4 weeks.

 

[HighVoltageRoyals]

The seller has had more than enough time to have sent the snakes out. How long should someone have to "wait it out" before their frustration is considered justifiable? It's not as if this transaction happened a few days ago, and the buyer is being irrational in wanting immediate satisfaction.

I guess how ever long you personally think is justifiable. It really depends on the individual and the circumstances so I'm guessing that was a rhetorical question? Some people wait weeks and months for animals to ship while others only wait a few days, it really depends on a lot of different factors, one of them being the sellers interpretation of the health of the animal. I personally think that animals shouldn't be put "on the market" unless they are 100% ready to leave that day but I digress, it doesn't seem to work like that some of the time in this hobby.

I don't think I said that the buyer was being irrational for wanting the animals immediately but if we're going to talk about personal opinions, I would have asked for the refund the first time the seller told me that I wasn't going to get the animals as soon as I would have liked if it bothered me as much as it bothered OP.

Sure, PP should have disclosed that he was going to sit on these, feed 'em up and make sure they were 100% satisfactory before sending them out which wasn't a very good move but at the same time, if I were in OP's shoes and I got that email on the 10th of October stating that there were going to be delays and if I needed the animals immediately there might be problems, I would have asked for the refund on that day and bought some other animals instead of dragging it out til the 24th. And who even knows if 10/10/12 was the first day a refund was offered? They could have had phone calls and other messages prior to that.

 

[HighVoltageRoyals]

Sure, PP should have disclosed that he was going to sit on these, feed 'em up and make sure they were 100% satisfactory before sending them out which wasn't a very good move

Wanted to clarify that it wasn't a good move on PP's part to leave out of the ad that there may be a delay on the animals. Didn't mean that making sure your animals are 100% healthy before you ship is a bad move. LOL Quite the contrary!

 

[Fangthane]

That was Mannie's single biggest mistake, not labeling them as "non-feeding".

I think that's being a bit overly-dismissive of all his other mistakes. Either way, it shows that he's not to be taken at his word. It's very easy for him to come here and play the "it's all about the animals" card. However, there's nothing in the previous emails that implies that there was any issues with them. Unless the emails were blatant lies, they were apparently feeding reliably for the past few weeks.

I don't think I said that the buyer was being irrational for wanting the animals immediately but if we're going to talk about personal opinions, I would have asked for the refund the first time the seller told me that I wasn't going to get the animals as soon as I would have liked if it bothered me as much as it bothered OP.

Well, hey, good for you. He apparently wanted them bad enough to try to "wait it out" a bit longer. Live and learn.

Sure, PP should have disclosed that he was going to sit on these, feed 'em up and make sure they were 100% satisfactory before sending them out which wasn't a very good move but at the same time, if I were in OP's shoes and I got that email on the 10th of October stating that there were going to be delays and if I needed the animals immediately there might be problems, I would have asked for the refund on that day and bought some other animals instead of dragging it out til the 24th. And who even knows if 10/10/12 was the first day a refund was offered? They could have had phone calls and other messages prior to that.

There could have been phone conversations where the seller claimed to be Batman. We can't verify anything that happened over the phone, so I take phone "evidence" with a big grain of salt. Based on the verifiable emails, as well as other context clues, I don't understand the rush to give PP the benefit of the doubt, but have at it.

You're harping on buyer's supposed "immediate" need. He paid for something, and wanted it in a timely manner. I don't see any reason to fault him for that.

Perhaps I'm just more cynical than most, but I see everything the seller said as being nothing more than convenient rationalizations. I haven't seen anything where he cites a specific issue, and says "let's wait until ______ happens". He simply kept claiming to feed them, and kept using those feedings as an excuse. Except for when he played the "busy" card.

 

[Lucille]

Looking back at some older threads, it appears that him being too "busy" to follow through isn't exactly something new for this seller. Take them for what they're worth..

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81917&highlight=frade

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98656&highlight=frade

This is my last reply as this is a total waste of time for me and everyone wasting their time even entertaining this thread.

I don't think it was a waste of time at all.

 

[HighVoltageRoyals]

You're harping on buyer's supposed "immediate" need. He paid for something, and wanted it in a timely manner. I don't see any reason to fault him for that.

Again, I'm not faulting the buyer for wanting the snakes immediately, which I stated in my previous post pretty clearly. I'm saying that the buyer should have moved on sooner and got a refund if he didn't want to wait it out which the seller made pretty apparent was going to happen after purchase (which is still a big no-no that he didn't disclose that in the ad). Seems logical to me?

I'm not even clear about what we're arguing about here because I agree with you for the most part. If I'm harping on anything, it's that OP should have asked for a refund sooner when sellers practices weren't up to par with buyer's expectations. Live and learn, right?

 

[tommyhil4_6]

I think that's being a bit overly-dismissive of all his other mistakes. Either way, it shows that he's not to be taken at his word. It's very easy for him to come here and play the "it's all about the animals" card. However, there's nothing in the previous emails that implies that there was any issues with them. Unless the emails were blatant lies, they were apparently feeding reliably for the past few weeks.

Well, hey, good for you. He apparently wanted them bad enough to try to "wait it out" a bit longer. Live and learn.

There could have been phone conversations where the seller claimed to be Batman. We can't verify anything that happened over the phone, so I take phone "evidence" with a big grain of salt. Based on the verifiable emails, as well as other context clues, I don't understand the rush to give PP the benefit of the doubt, but have at it.

You're harping on buyer's supposed "immediate" need. He paid for something, and wanted it in a timely manner. I don't see any reason to fault him for that.

Perhaps I'm just more cynical than most, but I see everything the seller said as being nothing more than convenient rationalizations. I haven't seen anything where he cites a specific issue, and says "let's wait until ______ happens". He simply kept claiming to feed them, and kept using those feedings as an excuse. Except for when he played the "busy" card.

Well my take on calling that PP's SINGLE "biggest" (not that, that excludes or erases the lack of communication, unfulfilled requests of shipping etc etc). I was actually the one that harped at all about the well being of the animals. I didn't see anyone in any post, OP, PP or any of you actually designate in these words "snakes health is utmost importance". I see both sides as OP "I want the snakes no questions asked" and the other side of PP "not ready and should have been when ad was placed unless otherwise declared, but they aren't feeding so they aren't going".

I feel that the majority fail is on PP by far for the lack of "not feeding" and "communication"... but let's be honest. These aren't like Super RLT, or Midnight gin boas as equivalent to very rare BP's. These are a dime a million. I agree that the OP paid and should have gotten what he paid for, but in all aspects of life... you may pay for something and that product is either a) sold out even though you paid b) recalled due to defect) even though you paid... or whatever reason.

The time table and energy spent on trying to obtain these particular 3 is just stupid to me. It's energy better spent sourcing from someone they WILL GLADLY do business with again, instead of barking up a tree without getting that cougar to come down (ie: snakes not being shipped).

Glad the OP got a refund, I personally have no affiliation to anyone here, but I understand issues come up in business. Orders CANNOT ALWAYS be filled (and if the OP is truthful to the amount of business he does, he understands that). I run 3 businesses myself and there flat out is some times when you just DO NOT have time to even answer a text. Doesn't negate the importance of communication and also that of honesty when communication is achieved.

 

[tommyhil4_6]

There was no question of feeding or not feeding. You can se his own words he typed himself saying the snakes ate like a champ,took a meal to big for them. Bla bla bla,they will ship next week. This went on for 4 weeks.

I'm positive that if said up front via PP (after paid etc) and it came out you'd have been willing to work it out one way or another. I do understand the frustration of being told one thing over and over, when in reality it just wasn't so. You were entitled to the truth up front (even if not in the ad). My feeling is they were trying to ensure they were feeding, but didn't possibly want to man up to the pre-emptive placing of the ad, until it went past a certain point.

Glad you can move forward and use the money to hopefully find an equivalent package down the road!

 

[amiskela]

Perfect Predators

Ok all you guys (and you know who you are) that are posting this BS about Manny and getting on his case need to keep quiet. Jealously is a b***ch. Just because you're only able to sell a couple snakes a week, while his numbers are in the dozens, doesn't give you the right to knock him on BOI. I've bought over $10k in boas from him in the past few months and he has always been honest and upfront. Personally, I haven't had any issues with him not responding..sure sometimes it takes a day for him to get back to me, but so what? I've purchased boas from him and had them shipped out a month later because he wants to make sure they are all feeding and in tip-top shape before he sends. Personally, I'd rather wait and trust his judgement on when they are ready to ship. If you don't want to wait then get your money back, he had no problems with refunding it to you.
Also, I do know that he had several personal issues come up this past week. A pair that I purchased 2-3 weeks ago was shipped out to me today, but like I said, I have no issue with that because when they arrive I know that I'm getting the top of the line specimen.

 

[Lucille]

need to keep quiet.

I think trying to put the hush on here not only won't work, but it reflects badly on you. Problem solving is a two way street. There is no doubt that the seller's communication was poor, and it seems as if it has happened before. Instead of denying the problem, or trying to hush it up, you could help this seller by encouraging better communication in the future.

 

[bmr1052]

So let me ask you, since you have done sooooo much business with Manny, have you ever sent him money and then after 4 weeks still haven't received your animals, and have had zero communication from him, and the communication you have had was very conflicting?

 

[John Willis SOE]

Not the case. He never said they were not ready to ship, not feeding well, or not up to weight., Nope, he told us over and over they would ship next week. In fact he said they would have to ship in a few days or next week because they were feeding so well. He even said a few times they had shipped. I posted his own words saying such.

Keep posting. I can do this all day and night. Ill continue to warn other every chance I get. Turns our he and I have a lot of the same audience. He can say whatever he wants. I have his typed messages. And Ill be happy to share them.

 

[amiskela]

Someone is just mad that Manny got into BPs..sorry if your business takes a dip!

 

[bmr1052]

Someone is just mad that Manny got into BPs..sorry if your business takes a dip!

Very informative post.

 

[ShadowAceD]

Ok all you guys (and you know who you are) that are posting this BS about Manny and getting on his case need to keep quiet. Jealously is a b***ch. Just because you're only able to sell a couple snakes a week, while his numbers are in the dozens, doesn't give you the right to knock him on BOI. I've bought over $10k in boas from him in the past few months and he has always been honest and upfront. Personally, I haven't had any issues with him not responding..sure sometimes it takes a day for him to get back to me, but so what? I've purchased boas from him and had them shipped out a month later because he wants to make sure they are all feeding and in tip-top shape before he sends. Personally, I'd rather wait and trust his judgement on when they are ready to ship. If you don't want to wait then get your money back, he had no problems with refunding it to you.
Also, I do know that he had several personal issues come up this past week. A pair that I purchased 2-3 weeks ago was shipped out to me today, but like I said, I have no issue with that because when they arrive I know that I'm getting the top of the line specimen.

I doubt Manny would be looking to someone like you as a "spokesperson" for his "awesomeness", so my suggestion to you would be to stop chewing on your toes and kissing something else.

Manny's attitude is stereotypical of most of the "big guys" who have been brought to the BOI for simple issues that escalated for whatever reason. Sometimes it is ego, sometimes it is being jaded, sometimes it just is what it is ... The fact is, Manny stated he would ship these animals on several days, claimed that these animals had eaten and then failed to ship the animals and then claimed they were not eating. It is a clear conflict of communication and "standing reputation" or no, it is just neglectful in terms of customer service. If he had personal issues arise, if he had reservations on sending them, he should have just flat said that instead of claiming they were going to be sent on this day or that day.

It does not matter how many good transactions a person has when they let one fall by the wayside.

Yes, Manny offered to refund, but he also failed in the above mentioned aspects and that is a problem. He also chose to go the chest thumping route by referring to himself as a "good guy" and discounting the BOI as nonsense as so many others in his position have.

I am by no means jealous of Manny. I doubt anyone that posted here is. Based on the information I see from both sides, Manny was in the wrong, and for anyone to fault the OP for not wanting to just take the refund and not post about his negative experience with Manny as he did is just really curious to me. I suppose it just comes down to priniciple, but it never fails that when someone goes after one of the "big guys" or the "well known guys" this kind of thing happens. The mentality is more forgiving that it would be of someone that no one ever did business with.

Manny dropped the ball. It's really that simple.