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Pet store robbery and Daytona show

Ben, excellent idea. Not only would it make tracking down stolen animals easier, but I think the customers would appreciate it, especially since the information can be changed when they purchase a chipped animal. The chip has a number encoded in it, punch in the ID code and up comes the info.

What I've done for ID purposes is take 2-5 pictures of each animal I have...full shot, closeup of the head, belly shot, and shots of any odd markings or scars. Not that anyone has any idea that I keep reptiles at home or where I live, but I'd rather be safe than sorry.
 
I and I believe Neil are well aware of microchipping. It has been around a while, very popular with dogs and cats. However, we were both refering to something that can actually track the animal down. Microchipping the I.D. is good, but you have to actually locate the animal first before you can scan for I.D.

Dennis Gulla
 
Dennis....My point, exactly! It's like finding the proverbial needle in the haystack! You've got to be able to "find it" first, before that micro-chip means anything! That's where the micro-BATTERY comes in to play....Neil
 
I am not sure I understood the post by " MOUTH " on page two .........Are you saying that Dave Lawson was in the papers for Stealing snakes ?  I was unaware of this if this is indeed the case.  Either way I think it is absolutely a huge insult to all the honest people in the reptile trade who go and spend ... $200-$250 a table to sell at Daytona.  People who steal 6 common boas don't get a table at Daytona and no animals are allowed in to the show, so no one can go there and try to pass off stolen animals while the show is open.  I think Peg may have jumped the gun and put a black mark on the best show yet.  And before I forget I was not accussing Dave Lawson of anything I just was not sure I understood the post correctly.  Oh and one more thing before I forget .... In my opinion most pet stores buy inexpensive animals that they can move quickly and investing in a microchip system is not something your average pet store would invest in unless they could get a return on that as well, it's just good business sense to minimize you expense on an animal you are selling to cover the overhead you have in a store, every penny counts sometimes.


Gary Walsch
Sunshine State Reptiles
 
This is mostly to Gary and Neil I think....

Consider that if all the local shops who seem to be the targets of serial theft used the same system, and all donated a scanner to the county sheriff, and politely asked that he send a deputy to the show and screen animals - even if not all of them, random ones, or special target groups even (but the show has the time for a vet to check all the animals, right? ....should have time for a deputy or even hired security guard to scan all the animals.)

That would be a MAJOR deterrent to the theives - if in fact they sell at the Daytona show (but I still think it'd be easier to move them on the black market... the timing is probably just subterfuge(sp?))

Now, how much is the value of an animal you can sell,  vs. an animal you breed and is stolen by theives? If there is actual evidence of serial theft it almost seems like a no-brainer. Charge the $7.00 per animal to the customer and explain that the chip is a value-add, and I don't think it would drastically reduce sales... just a hunch...

Don't you think it'd raise suspicion if a large number of the animals at one or more vendors all had scars where someone had recently removed the ID tag?

^Curtis Brown
 
I haven't seen the news clip, and neither have any of you! So, how can you possibly take this one paragraph as gospel?

...Tonight on Tampa local news Peg Vincent of Peg's exotic pet in Wesley Chapel Fl. blamed the Daytona reptile expo for her store burglary.She said that people commit pet store robberies to supply their tables tables at the show...

I know Peg, I've spoke to her a bunch of times....I can guarantee you that she DIDN'T blame the Daytona show for her burglary?? From what she tell me, she was saying that the people who are burglarizing the shops around here are taking things that can be easily "black-marketed" to someone that actually has tables at the show! The recipient of these animals probably don't even know they're hot! Every one of us that are doing that show, are stocking up on babies to sell right now!...that's what she was talking about....so she can go to the show, and try to find the table that has her animals (good luck) and then work backwards to find out where they got them...she's certainly wasn't saying that because of the Daytona show, she was burglarized? That's ridiculous....

And Gary....She was hit for a lot more than a couple of baby boas....the largest was a 14' Albino Burm, amoung a bunch of other things....remember, they had all the time in the world because they came in through the wall so the alarm didn't go off, she was basically wiped out! Even if it is a small store....that was a lot! ....Neil
 
Well I did see it and she directly blamed the Daytona show.

she said "Every year at this time pet stores are robbed and it is due to the upcoming Daytona expo.People steal animals to put in the show to sell" now she may have meant something else but that is what she said.

She went on to tell them that she lost $10,000.00 worth of animals.yet the list that she called in to other shops was more like $800.00.

The point is that the show should not have even been mention end of story.It cast a shadow on the entire industry.
The reptile industry already is in bad standing with everyone from insurance companies ,Police all the way up to Capital Hill the last thing we need is to make the private sector think that everyone the breeds,sells or has a pet store is a crook.
She had no right to call the news station and request a crew to do a interview all she did was make the thieves stay in hiding and the polices job twice as hard.
 
Dave,

   You said

   The reptile industry already is in bad standing with everyone from insurance companies ,Police all the way up to Capital Hill the last thing we need is to make the private sector think that everyone the breeds,sells or has a pet store is a crook.


Dave are you saying everyone in law enforcement and government are anti-reptile?  Do you have personal bad dealings with these groups?  If you do, please post your experience so we all know how bad you've messed things up. <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>
 
Franklin, If I understand you correctly,

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Dave are you saying everyone in law enforcement and government are anti-reptile?  Do you have personal bad dealings with these groups?  If you do, please post your experience so we all know how bad you've messed things up. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

It is my fault that one state after another are making laws to ban certain herps ? It is my fault that most insurance companies have inflated rates for pet stops? It is my fault that most police do no take reptile thieft seriously?
 
Dave,
YES, everything is YOUR fault.  From inflation, to teen drug use, all the way to foreign affairs and my dog getting nocked up.  While we're at it, even Sadam Insane is YOUR fault.  Haven't you caught on yet.  C'mon man, put the 6th grade edumication to work.
cwm13.gif
 
The reason people are banning herps in state by state is because people that own herps are not involved in thier state congress.

Where people who want them banned spend night and day trying to do so. The only reason it happens is when you let your gaurd down they slip it in on a highway bill.

Most laws against herps are in the underwriting of another bill. This is how they try to slip them by. ( PETA and other Organization with the same beliefs )  

You need to be an active member in your Herp Organization. Be Friends with your local Vets. I didn't say customer I said friend. This way when something does come up in your state congress. You and and others can go to your congress and state the facts, and argue why some of these bills should never be made into laws. I have spoke at a few and hope to be able to do so in the future.

I have rodent customers here in Washington that are Judges, Attorneys for the Goverment, and ever 1 local congress lady who owns 2 Cornsnakes.

You have to be like the people who want to out law reptiles.

Believe that owning reptiles is a GOD given right. You have to have a passion in what you believe so that when you speak people will hear and feel what you aer saying. When you stir feelings into people that is when you can get results.

Remeber PETA like to use pictures of baby animals suffering, because it stirs emotion in people and then they act on thier heart and not whith thier minds.

You need to be able to stir the same emotions when talking about owning the reptiles we all love so much. Take pictures do educational programs a couple of times a year get those pictures of a 5 year old with that little twinkle in thier eye as thay pick up and handle thier first snake.

You want to make people think of a young child with a smile and a Herp in thier hands.

People do not take are right to own Herps away. We let them.


Insurance rates are high for Pet stores because of the risk. Any time you have any animal that can bite you are a high risk of being sued.


For me to sell Hamsters to Wal-mart I needed to be covered fot at least 1 million dollars. In case someone was bit in thier store and they were sued that could fall back onto me and sue me.




Now as for the police. It's like a bike being stole. How many of those do you think they find. Think about you trying to find the person who keyed your car in a Mall parking lot. You may try hard but do you really think you'll find that person.

This is the same thing for the police. Some are honest people and want to help but they don't have some crystal ball they can look into and just chose not to.

Dave you need to not try and blame anyone or anything you can on the problems with the world and jump up to the plate and make the word revolve around you.
 
Great points Franklin, but this is what you said,
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Dave are you saying everyone in law enforcement and government are anti-reptile?  Do you have personal bad dealings with these groups?  If you do, please post your experience so we all know how bad you've messed things up. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Pay close attention to this part:
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>so we all know how bad you've messed things up</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

Now in your last post you have yet to tell everyone how I messed things up.

My opinion on it is this,

1) People not knowing how to care for their herps, cage them.Shipping them by fed-ex, ups and airborne express in mislabeled boxes.

2)a store owner that loses a 12' albino burm in a robbery but claims a 14' to 16' that is worth $1,000 or claiming 3 times the amount that was really stolen.

3)conducting your own investigation and ruining the polices chance of solving it.

4)people that have no buisness getting involved in a case and giving the police bad info.

I could go on but I think you get the picture.The police do not need people running around speading rumors.If you were a cop working a burglary and the victem tells you that a 14' snake that was worth $1,000 was stolen so that is what you are looking for then you find out after a week or so of working the case that the snake was only 12' and worth only $300 now would you be pissed that the victem lied to you and end the case? Or how about this, the cop goes to all the surrounding reptile dealers only to find out that the victem was already there.The cops may have had a plan to go to the Daytona to have a look see but the victem get on tv to warn everyone.
 
Dave said


"The reptile industry already is in bad standing with everyone from insurance companies ,Police all the way up to Capital Hill the last thing we need is to make the private sector think that everyone the breeds,sells or has a pet store is a crook."

Frank Said

"Dave are you saying everyone in law enforcement and government are anti-reptile?  Do you have personal bad dealings with these groups?  If you do, please post your experience so we all know how bad you've messed things up."



Dave the reason I said what I did was;  because you said that they were all aginst reptiles. Which makes me think, for some reason the goverment in your area must be against you.
To my knowledge the goverment is against any one for no reason. So When reading your post I read into it that you must have done something for the police and goverment officials you have yourself in bad standing with them.

Sense the reptile industry as a whole is not in a bad standing I had to think for some reason you must be. As I remember in the Neil burgerlary post you seemed to be at the police station alot back then. You were telling us all that is was to get info on people lieing.

So Now who is in bad standing with the Police, insurance companies, and govermebnt angencies?

I ask this because the reptile industry is not and you believe it is.

So this can only happen if you have had bad experinces yourself with them. So you must have done something for them to think so badly of you. This could be the only place for a person to get such an outlook on life.

So did you do something? ?? <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'> ??


Or are you just missed informed by some mouse in your pocket.

I can see a mouse wanting you to think that because it is in his best interest.


Do you have any other friends besides this mouse ?  ??  <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'> ??  ?


Kill the Mouse and get a new outlook on life.
 
To Curtis ..... yes I do see your point and it is valid and not a bad idea at all, but hat I was saying was based on my experience with my local pet stores, some of whom are so cheap it is unreal !, but yes you have a good idea and a valid point.  To Neil .... I was really unaware that the robbery was so extensive and large animals were also taken, not being from the Tampa area my information was limited so I stand corrected.  As far as public outlook and people trying to pass laws preventing private herp ownership ......  I agree with an earlier statement that went .... " People don't take away your rights, you give them up "  We need to be responsible with our herps, meaning don't go walking around ith a 10 foot burm thinking you are cool and trying to shock people, maintain your self in a responsible manner and respect other people and their feelings, Don't let your snakes escape and wind up on the news , Try to do good things that may even come up in the public eye as a positive act.  The two worst things in this world in my opinion are ignorance and intolerance and the two usually walk hand in hand.  Educate people and let them know that reptiles serve a purpose and are not evil slimy creatures put on this earth by the devil, and that captive breeding efforts around the world have actually saved some species and I could go on but I won't.  You get the idea.  


Gary Walsch
Sunshine State Reptiles
 
i was in the retail pets for a while, several times i had people bring in snakes to sell, some of them were scared of the snakes they had , (Balls)  i think the stolen stuff is sold out of cars & vans to small stores, we were never hit, but my friend dave was hit several times in the S fla area, we now have watch pigmys,we have alot of pigmys in this area, if you reach in to a tank wiyh several babys in it at our place, there is 1 or 2 in each tank you dont want to pick up, i'm picking up a mint green cottenmouth next week,, do you think he will get alng in GTP tank  sorry for your losses
Gene
 
Gene,

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
turtleman1



Group: Members
Posts: 37
Joined: Feb. 2002
 Posted: Aug. 10 2002,14:16    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i work 60 days on And 60 days off, my wife said the turtles had quit eating, when i got in i found i did not have any turtles, missing are  about
100  4 in yellow bellys
25    '   "  red ears
25  4  "     maps
50   eastern paints , these are breeders, so some are larger than 4 in. i am located 40 miles n. of Panama city Fla and
30 S of dothan Ala, if you have bought any of hese turtles please let me  know where you got them, i dont wantto try to get them back, just want to know who got them
thanks gene </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

You posted earlier today in the General Discussion Forum that you had been robbed. But in this topic, you just said:

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">we were never hit</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

and:

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">we now have watch pigmys,we have alot of pigmys in this area, if you reach in to a tank wiyh several babys in it at our place, there is 1 or 2 in each tank you dont want to pick up, i'm picking up a mint green cottenmouth next week</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

I may just be simple, but did I miss something?
 
No John
I don't think you missed a thing

doesn't this kind of remind you of another thread where someone had selective memory <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>?
how can someone say in one thread that all kinds of turtles were taken , and in another thread say we were never hit.
can we say fraud <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>
 
Dave Lawson-

I just spoke with a good and reliable friend down there in Florida. This guy has also been to Pegs' store and seen firsthand the damage done in the robbery. And obviously has spoken with her. My question is now this: Why have you twisted Peg's words, actions, and stories? In your original post, you completely took what was said out of context. Ok, let's go a little deeper now. As some serious legwork has been done. Turns out that you have been going around down there and trying to peddle off a 12-13 ft. Albino Burmese Python. And guess what? That is exactly one of the animals that was taken. I cannot substantiate this part, but is it not true that you did not have one of these snakes in your possession before the burglary of Pegs' store? Also, why is your website down? I just tried to look at it to see if in fact you were trying to sell an 12-13ft. A.B.P.. I've tried at least 5 times and still cannot open your site. I am NOT accusing you of the burglary of her store. What I am doing is trying to determine the motivation of your original post in this thread. Were you a suspect? Were you then trying to shift focus from you and cast dispersion upon Peg? Is it possible that the discussion of the Daytona show was only brought up as a thought only? Merely a happenstance discussion? Could Peg possibly have only wondered if the Daytona Shows' closeness and the recent rash of burglaries merely been a coincedence? Rather than an outright condemnation?  Turns out Peg just might not be the bad guy you made her out to be after all. So why were you so quick to jump on her anyways, Dave?
 
Before any of you start accusing....NO...it wasn't me that John got his info from, and I have no idea who it was...but, I'm sure glad he did it for himself....Neil
 
Yo Hoss,
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Turns out that you have been going around down there and trying to peddle off a 12-13 ft. Albino Burmese Python. And guess what? That is exactly one of the animals that was taken.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
I asked him that same question in the Big Battle Royale thread that never took off.
Here is the link to it and his responce to the Albino Burm question,
Battle Royale Thread
 
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