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Pets Plus Lockport, Kick Brothers - (INFO)

liquidleaf

liquidleaf

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:(!!!! This is NOT a good summer for herps in Western New York.

I'm trying to help place geckos from the raid last month on the "Cheektowaga" residence that may be involved with TSE, and in today's paper was this story....

http://www.spcaec.com/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=5797

More than 300 animals seized, in various states of malnutrition.

The upstairs non-retail area was used, if I am correct, by "Kick Brothers", who occasionally post ads on KS. Kick Brothers may or may not be directly linked to the "Pets Plus" business, but I have heard multiple mentions that they work "out of the upstairs of Pets Plus in Lockport", so please keep this in mind if you see Kick Brothers from Lockport. At one point I inquired about some boas they had for sale a year or so ago, and I was told that they use some rooms in Pets Plus to keep/distribute their animals. If they're not involved in the many animals found in the pet store and the storage areas being in poor condition, they're welcome to post here the level of their relationship to Pets Plus....

I am utterly disgusted by all the crap going on in Niagara and Erie counties this summer. :ack2: :unhappy: :uzi: :censored:
 
PS - I posted as (info) in the thread title because there may be a slight possibility that Kick Brothers weren't the neglectful party... I doubt that highly... But obviously this thread is VERY "Bad Guy".
 
It's really sad because Pets Plus had the largest variety of reptiles in WNY... That's where I got my first snake 3 years ago... blick.
 
They are not associated with Chris at TSE. Chris was apparently an apartment operation, while Pets Plus did use their second floor at one of their stores, apparently as pictured.
 
Jim - I never said Kick Bros/Pets Plus was related to TSE. Just venting my frustration that both of these places are turning out to be terrible (and having seemingly having animals seized). The two are not related, except for the fact that they are in WNY.
 
Heh- my wording probably should have been...

"I'm discouraged that 90 geckos, perhaps from TSE, have been seized by the local SPCA, when I got more discouraged to learn of ANOTHER seizure and more bad news for the herp community in Western New York...." - sorry for any confusion.
 
Lauren,
I read it so fast, what stuck with me was the "may be involved with TSE", which was a reference to geckos, not the Kick Brothers. My bad. I hope that this is something they can fix, and that maybe it was just a temporary situation due to some other hardship. As a way of conducting your business, market forces usually take care of situations like this that exist over a period of time, as others can easily out-compete this. They are occasional customers of quantities of chameleons, always pay on time, and always been a pleasure to work with.
 
Another link... Fred Kick of Kick Brothers does indeed own Pets Plus.

http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20060712/1015965.asp

This story give a bit more detail to the story on the SPCA site.

Since the seizure, several animals have died or been euthanized as a result of their conditions.

http://www.wivb.com/Global/story.asp?S=5139603

I love how Mr. Kick acts like all of these allegations are due to a "disgruntled employee" that he fired last week. Right, that employee made you house thousands of animals that you didn't have enough people to care for in your shop.... GAH!
 
Lauren and others,
There is no excuse for much of what is obvious in the video and still pictures. Fred is a friend and customer, although I have never been to Buffalo. I can't tell you if he's had a bad week, month, many months, although it took time for some of these things to get bad. Tough way to learn a lesson. I have no trouble swearing up and down that Fred has been a good customer of mine. At the same time, besides the obvious need to clean things up, I think it also a good lesson in poor damage control. I doubt he anticipated that his words would be linked to the video from the SPCA in the facility, but it made for good TV, and bad Fred. I suspect that a week from now, if reptiles could smile, many will have a big grin, and a "Thank you SPCA" cake awaiting. One heck of a wake-up call. You know, it seems that the Buffalo area SPCA is one on-the-ball group of folks ! For you TSE fans, Fred is the one that gave me some legal connections to pass on to those spearheading the TSE effort. I'll bet he knows more about the legal now than ever before. Work it out Fred ... I'm sure you will.
 
Pets Plus

I personally have purchased several animals from Pets Plus over many years and have never had any problems. They are regular attendees to the Columbus swap meet, which is where I have dealt with them. I currently own 0.1 het albino and 0.1 albino ball pythons I purchased from them and both animals have been and still are in perfect health. As far as the caging complaints in these articles, I hope everyone is seeing the trend to complain about the rack caging systems they use. How many breeders out there use these? Are all of them mistreating their animals? How many times have you cleaned a cage and come back the very next day and the snake had deficated in their water, so the cage looks dirty? And is keeping Iguana's at 89 degrees with a lamp, an unsafe condition for them? I am not saying everything may have been perfect, but I do believe too many people believe reptiles should be kept in the same conditions as cats and dogs. Do you have food and water always available for your reptiles? Maybe water for most. But I'm not letting a mouse or rat run around my snake cage all the time. I know the media and the SPCA both love to jump on anything even remotely negative about the reptile trade because neither of them support it. I just think there should be other opinions heard here and all the facts should be in before judging anyone. Let's not help those who are out to end our hobby. Sorry so long, but I had to vent my opinion. By the way John thanks for your many years of help and support.
Rick
 
Rick,

I consider Fred a good friend. We have enjoyed much business and a few good meals together when he can make it down to Dixie. But .....

I just think there should be other opinions heard here and all the facts should be in before judging anyone.
Click to expand...

The court of public opinion does not allow for all the facts to be in before rendering judgement. Some of the images are quite damaging, and show things in need of repair. It is possible that Fred may have given many sound-bites, to include such as "the firing of a few employees recently caused us to become temporarily overwhelmed. We have problems we need to fix, and I will get all fixed. I thank the authorities for their assistance." They may have taken the most damaging of edited sound-bites and used them. The video is hard to refute. Its a bad situation to be in, and not one most train for. Hopefully come re-inspection time, they can get get some press and sound bites to help restore the image that they would want to have. I do not think it is at all representative of Fred, but he never needed to worry about what I think anyway. I believe he will get all right by re-inspection time, and move on, lesson learned.
 
RJBILBY said:
I personally have purchased several animals from Pets Plus over many years and have never had any problems. They are regular attendees to the Columbus swap meet, which is where I have dealt with them. I currently own 0.1 het albino and 0.1 albino ball pythons I purchased from them and both animals have been and still are in perfect health. As far as the caging complaints in these articles, I hope everyone is seeing the trend to complain about the rack caging systems they use. How many breeders out there use these? Are all of them mistreating their animals? How many times have you cleaned a cage and come back the very next day and the snake had deficated in their water, so the cage looks dirty? And is keeping Iguana's at 89 degrees with a lamp, an unsafe condition for them? I am not saying everything may have been perfect, but I do believe too many people believe reptiles should be kept in the same conditions as cats and dogs. Do you have food and water always available for your reptiles? Maybe water for most. But I'm not letting a mouse or rat run around my snake cage all the time. I know the media and the SPCA both love to jump on anything even remotely negative about the reptile trade because neither of them support it. I just think there should be other opinions heard here and all the facts should be in before judging anyone. Let's not help those who are out to end our hobby. Sorry so long, but I had to vent my opinion. By the way John thanks for your many years of help and support.
Rick
Click to expand...
Over the years I have visited Pets Plus (never bought) I have always been impressed by the place, I really do think that Fred got caught on a bad day, I also agree that SPCA up here are a bunch of luney tunes, Gung Ho save the planet people.
 
Well you guys have been there and dealt with them so you may know better than anyone but it is hard to explain a lizard skeleton. So bad day doesn't really cut it. More like bad month.
 
Hmmmm you got me there, Maybe it was one of his favorite lizards and he wanted to keep the skeleton just a thought.
 
Does anyone know if John Kick is in trouble too? which is freds brother, i've dealt with him several times at the expo and always liked the deals he gives and works with me. It will be intresting to see if John comes and brings his set up this sat. at the show


'Andys Turts and Torts'
 
They jointly own and operate all, to the best of my knowledge, although they certainly divide and/or switch-off responsibilities. My belief would be that every available resource is working to get this straightened out now. They need to pass the re-inspection with flying colors, salvage whatever good press is still possible, and also try to minimize any fines and penalties. Sales numbers will tell them if the bad PR has affected the normal retail business. If so, they will have to hope to find some means to address that as well, and whatever reach-out means they try will take work. Media loves a train-wreck, but the clean-up is far less interesting. If John is there at the show, then I would guess all is well-in-hand.
Agreed Kevin. For those who didn't see the video, the skeleton, dead hatchling snakes, serious infections on the monitor, etc, lend credence to the press' and SPCA's general description of much in disrepair. I doubt that Fred believed that the press would have video etc from the actual inspection, as they had a field day with a choice sound-bite or two and the video. A bit of a nightmare for Fred, and not a week he will look upon fondly. He will fix it.
 
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