Pets Plus Lockport, Kick Brothers - (INFO)

[liquidleaf]

Well, I'd describe my feelings towards the whole thing as "disgusted", not "cynical", and I know better than to believe what the press says. Photos and actual video speak a lot louder than words, spoken or written, no matter who the words come from. Glad you had a pleasant conversation with Mr. Kick. Cheers back at 'cha.

 

[liquidleaf]

It occurs to me that perhaps my earlier post may not have been as verbose as some may like, and perhaps it wasn't clear about the meaning of my comment about "not guilty" vs "charges dropped". I find lawyers humorous. I found it funny that Mr. Kick's ATTORNEY made a statement regarding the settlement - he said that since the charges had been dropped, it was proof that the SPCA should never have taken the animals. If any found my comment cynical, all those Johnny Cochran jokes must've been cynical as well. I don't have anything personal against Mr. Kick, and as I've stated before I have had no problems with the animals purchased from his company. I would rather the situation had never occurred, there are not many reptile retailers in my area. I find the situation far from humorous, but I did find the lawyer's spin rather cheesy and in poor taste.... to the effect of "we didn't exactly lose the case, so therefore we never did anything wrong! Ha ha, in your face, SPCA!" Probably not what Mr. Kick would have said personally, I hope.

I don't believe the spin the media tried to put on the story, and I believe I made that clear many posts ago, but nonetheless the video and other information clearly showed a problem with animal husbandry (above and beyond the 'nominal' losses to be expected of a wholesaler/importer) that the business owners needed to address. Because of that, my confidence in his business was shaken, and I (and others) will not do business with him until that trust is regained. Like anyone who makes a mistake, they've got to work to earn respect again. Do they deserve another chance? Absolutely, as long as they recognize that there was a problem, no matter who was responsible, that needs to be resolved, and take action to resolve it. Proof of that will take time and effort. In the meantime, however, just because the problem occurred behind "closed doors", doesn't mean all potential customers shouldn't know or think about it, no matter the venue of sale.

Due to the turnabouts of certain reptile businesses (such as Top Shelf), I will not be a blindly loyal customer of anyone, and if that labels me as a cynical person, so be it, though in my addled brain I try to think of myself more as an informed consumer.

I hope this lengthier post cleared up any misunderstandings anyone may have had.

 

[djs27uro]

Please read the link below and notice the bolded text:

"He claims many of the geckos and tree frogs the SPCA is keeping arrived a few days before the raid from Indonesia."

Here's an exact list of species kept by the SPCA:
-Diamondback terrapin (on DEC hold)
-North American Bullfrog (on DEC hold)
-Solomon island tree boa
-Solomon island ground boa
-Whites tree frog
-green tree frog
-North American earless lizard (possibly with some zebra tail mixed in)
-Veiled chameleon
-Savannah monitor
-Blue tongue skink
-Western hognose snake

So, now I'm just trying to narrow down what could have come from Indonesia. Kick clearly said in all news articles that all snakes were returned, so the various candoia wouldn't have been included in a shipment from Indonesia. No geckos were left at the shelter, but all of the other lizards, except the blue tongue skink, either come from North America or Africa. The terrapins, bullfrogs and green tree frogs are clearly North American.

I don't know... I wasn't at the interview. Maybe he said that he just received a shipment from Florida and that he was taking his lawyer to Indonesia and the press got it backwards... I feel like it was poor judgment to pick a location where these animals would have come from. Had he left off the location, it would have been harder to argue the validity of his statement. I feel like it is very easy to make one sided arguments when there are no facts from any other view point to back statements up.

Article:
http://www.lockportjournal.com/siteSearch/apstorysection/local_story_237005631.html

PET SHOP RAID: Pets Plus reaches settlement
By Tasha Kates / [email protected]
Lockport Union-Sun & Journal

A six-week-long battle over alleged animal cruelty at Pets Plus has ended.

The Niagara County District Attorney’s Office, Erie County SPCA and Pets Plus counsel reached a settlement Thursday in Lockport City Court.

The deal will dismiss the 36 animal cruelty charges against the pet store as long as the corporate entity is not charged with anything else within the next six months. The store will be getting 87 of its animals back with housing tomorrow but will have to give up 72 of them to the SPCA.

SPCA general counsel Becky Powell said the store also will pay $1,350 for the care of the animals and will have quarterly inspections of the store for three years, led by the Niagara County SPCA.

Thursday’s court date was originally supposed to include a hearing on the amount Pets Plus should pay for the care of the seized creatures.

Powell said the settlement will satisfy the case.

“The goal of this is to do right for the animals,” Powell said. “We realized a way to work this out.”

About 200 reptiles and amphibians were seized July 11 from the West Avenue store by the Erie County SPCA after the Department of Environmental Conservation received a complaint about illegal exotic animals. On July 28, Pets Plus was charged with 36 counts of animal cruelty.

Representatives of the SPCA and Pets Plus seemed happy with Thursday’s outcome, but for very different reasons.

“We are not here to be unfair to animals or business owners,” Powell said. “We often ask for forfeiture and visitation. We just want the best for the animals.”

Powell said the Erie SPCA is planning to train its Niagara sister on what to look for during upcoming animal cruelty inspections. Erie County SPCA spokesman Gina Browning said the group will continue to care for the 72 animals they deemed the sickest.

The SPCA has continued to receive calls about the creatures, Browning added.

Pets Plus co-owner Fred Kick and attorney George V.C. Muscato considered the settlement a victory.

“If we were running such a bad operation, why not prosecute us further,” Muscato said.

Kick said the creatures that are being returned are valued at $15,500. He claims many of the geckos and tree frogs the SPCA is keeping arrived a few days before the raid from Indonesia.

“They aren’t perfect when they come in,” Kick said. “We have to worm them, re-hydrate them and get them ready to sell.”

Each of the 36 charges represent one animal that SPCA employees deemed ill. Kick said he did not believe anyone who said the creatures were unhealthy had enough reptile knowledge to discern their true conditions.

Both reptile specialist and temporary Erie County SPCA employee David Smith and Joel Thomas, the Erie County SPCA’s wildlife administrator and a state-licensed veterinarian technician, gave supporting depositions in the case. A Buffalo Zoo veterinarian also has been working with the SPCA to care for the animals.

As for the creatures that were “red-tagged” to stay in place at the store, neither Kick nor Browning knew what the DEC was planning to next. Kick said he received a call from the DEC saying the animals marked as illegal were targeted incorrectly because the store keeps them for sale, not as pets.

“We have nothing illegal in our facility,” Kick said.

Kick said he often sells the animals in other states where the pets are legal to own.

Muscato said he is pleased that the Niagara County SPCA will be handling the quarterly inspections because the store is within the same county. Jurisdiction was one of the topics the attorneys were set to discuss with Judge William J. Watson.

The Niagara County group was originally called on the Pets Plus case, but the agency would not have been able to handle the number of reptiles that were seized. Executive director Albert J. Chille has previously said he gave permission to the Erie County group.

Now that the criminal case against the store is finished, Kick said he is ready to celebrate.

“I’m going to Disneyland and I’m taking George (Muscato) with me,” Kick said.

Contact Tasha Kates at 439-9222, Ext. 6241.

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Now, I was inadvertently introduced (without my knowledge) to the press by the SPCA as an employee of the SPCA. Originally they asked me for help and said up front that they would not be able to pay me. While I worked 40+ hours a week trying to write my PhD thesis proposal, I put in an extra 15-20 hours a week trying to help out these animals. This was purely on a volunteer basis. I was reimbursed twice for some supplies that I purchased, but I still sunk over $100 that I didn't get back.
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I missed my chance to snag a buffalo news article (now in paid archives) called Food for Thought. In this article, Fred Kick expressed concern that the SPCA euthanized a bullfrog that had been "rescued from a chinese food restaraunt". They also put a sign outside of their store saying, "The SPCA killed Hoppy".

Linked is a picture from the SPCA web page:
http://www.spcaec.com/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=5813

The bullfrog that was euthanized is the one laying on its side in the water. These frogs were for sale in the downstairs show floor at the time of the raid. I did not see the frog, but was told that it had to struggle to get both nostrils above the water line to breath. Everyone will argue whether euthanasia was the appropriate course of action. However, they should see the photograph before making that decision.

(The article itself seems of little importance. Feel free to read it and post it if anyone wants. Nothing that hasn't been said before.)
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One serious note in this case involves jurisdictional issues. There was some debate as to the legality of the search warrant. Kick's lawyer stated that the SPCA had no authority to enter a different county, regardless of their intent to help animals. Honestly, I don't understand the legality of the SPCA's argument about the laws. Legal search warrants are a trademark of our legal system. If the search warrant obtained by the Erie County SPCA were proven illegal in a trial, I would have voted in favor of Kick if I were on a jury. Here's an article where jurisdiction is discussed. I'll put the jurisdiction comments in bold, as I feel they would have played an important part in the case had it gone to trial.

Pets Plus allowed to see animals
PET SHOP RAID: Possible SPCA jurisdiction issue to be discussed
BY TASHA KATES
The Tonawanda News

LOCKPORT — Pets Plus will be allowed to see what it could be paying for.

Lockport City Court Judge William Watson ruled Monday that veterinarians and experts hired on the store’s behalf could view the creatures at the Erie County SPCA before they are asked to pay for their care.

Less than 200 reptiles and amphibians seized July 11 from the West Avenue store in Lockport have been living in a wing of the SPCA’s Town of Tonawanda location. On Aug. 7, SPCA general counsel Becky Powell requested a bond for $4,300 to pay for almost two months’ worth of their care.

Attorney George V.C. Muscato said the estimate is too high.

“We don’t agree with that amount and that they are being given the proper care,” Muscato said. “We believe that it’s no different than if it was an automobile accident. We would like to go in with our experts.”

Powell said the status of the creatures status at the time of a visit may not represent how they are doing a week later.

“Their conditions do change,” Powell said.

Pets Plus, represented by store co-owner Fred Kick, was charged last month with 36 counts of animal cruelty. The SPCA executed a search warrant at the store after the Department of Environmental Conservation received a complaint about illegal exotic animals. SPCA investigators seized a number of animals in need of immediate care.

Money isn’t the only issue in the Pets Plus case. Muscato, Powell and Watson all did research into whether or not the SPCA had jurisdiction in Niagara County.

Muscato said the group should not have come into Niagara County.

“In spite of the intent of the statute to protect animals, they did not have jurisdiction in Niagara County,” Muscato said. “The statutes are clear. They can not exercise their powers outside of their county.”

Powell said the group was exempt because it was “the impounding organization.”

“The Legislature’s intent was to cover impounding organizations,” Powell said.

But Powell said the Erie County SPCA is not an agent of the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals. The lack of connection between the two may determine whether or not the group had jurisdiction.

Watson denied a motion by Muscato, who said the search warrant used during the raid was illegal because it was signed by a county court judge rather than a city court judge. The judge said a county court judge can sit in for the city.

SPCA and Pets Plus counsel are scheduled to return Aug. 24 to court to discuss unfinished issues.

Contact Tasha Kates at 439-9222, Ext. 6241.

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To state that the charges have been completely dropped is not exactly accurate. The ACD is explained in further detail in this SPCA press release:

THREE YEARS QUARTERLY INSPECTIONS PART OF AGREEMENT WITH PET SHOP
Friday, August 25, 2006
By: Gina Browning, Public Relations Director, 716-629-3505

"Saving animals' lives now and in the future is our mission," says SPCA Executive Director

An agreement was presented yesterday afternoon in Lockport, NY Municipal Court concerning charges of animal cruelty filed by the Niagara County District Attorney's Office against the Pets Plus pet shop earlier this month (see photo, read story of charges) .

The SPCA Serving Erie County was called into the pet shop animal cruelty investigation by various government agencies in mid-July when, with the assistance of Buffalo Zoo reptile veterinarians and various specialists, it was determined that nearly 200 suffering reptiles needed to be removed from the shop in order to receive necessary veterinary care and treatment.

As part of the agreement, the Niagara County SPCA has the right to quarterly inspections of both the lower and upper public and private housing areas of the shop for a period of three years. Eighty-seven animals will be released to the shop; each reptile's health status has reached a level deemed acceptable by veterinarians and specialists. The SPCA will maintain possession of 72 reptiles that still need special treatment. Pertaining to the cost of care provided to the animals since July, the SPCA will receive $1350 of the $2700 requested. The agreement also allowed for a six-month ACD, or "Adjournment in Contemplation of Dismissal."

"The SPCA commonly seeks ACDs in such cases," says SPCA Executive Director Barbara Carr. "The 'grace period' gives the shop owner an opportunity for redemption - time to prove he can, in fact, properly care for animals. A 'sentence' only puts someone in jail - there is no opportunity for us to play any part in overseeing animal care - and that's not what we're about. Our goal is to educate - to help people responsible for animal care do it right - and that's what's happened here. We're certain this man is capable of providing proper care to a reasonable number of animals, and when we gave him the chance to clean up after other animals, he did. Based on that, we believe he'll make every attempt to provide the right care to the animals now healthy and being returned to him, and the animals at his shop."

SPCA officials are happy with the portion of the agreement allowing for quarterly inspections of the entire warehouse-like structure in Lockport. "Not only were we able to play a role this summer in helping to save many animals in this shop; hopefully, we've played a role in ensuring that, at least for the next three years, more animals there will be treated more humanely," Carr states. "Saving animals' lives now and in the future is our mission, and we've done all we're able to do in this case to fulfill that mission."

The SPCA Serving Erie County continues to receive calls from community members concerned over the treatment of animals in the shop; more than 125 calls have been logged by the agency since its involvement in the case.

"Naturally we're concerned over the treatment of any animal in any community," says Carr. "Based on the reaction we've received from community members on this case over the last month or so, there is no doubt in our minds that, should they continue to notice questionable activity concerning potential animal cruelty, they'll take the proper course of action and alert the agency that has a responsibility to protect animals in their geographic location. Community members need to stay aware."

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As I have stated in previous threads, both sides appear to be satisfied with the outcome. Over a month ago, I also said that many members in the community don't want to see the place get shut down, but cleaned up instead.


---
David Smith

 

[Dragonz Whispers]

Herps in Western NY

Hi Lauren,

Someone new we don't know, even though we are neighbors..

I heard that Pets Plus was given back all their reptiles by the SPCA & they are being watched closely..

Never bought from them, but after seeing the pics on the news, I was pretty sick..

Are you a R.A.R.E. member?

Rhea

 

[Dragonz Whispers]

Keeping us updated!

Thank-you to all of you involved with keeping the community updated on current issue's. Your extra effort's are appreciated!!

 

[liquidleaf]

Hi Rhea - no, not a RARE member though my husband knows a friend of the lady who started it ( that she had a fire!), but I belong to the WNY Herp Society.

 

[rlmcritters]

These guys will be at the Raleigh NC show this weekend under the name Reptile Addicts, so buyer beware! An ex friend of mine bought a corn from them a year ago and it had crypto! They denied it of course by saying that all snakes had crypto!

 

[bpfreak]

kick brothers

I've bought 1.1 pastels (bps) from them this year. They were great to deal with and the animals were healthy. The female was said to be a lemon from the NERD line, and she is, Her color is awesome!

Thats my 2cents

 

[RJBILBY]

Kick's

I currently own 0.1 spider ball python, 0.1 albino ball python, 0.1 pastel ball python, 0.1 het albino ball python and 0.2 reduced pattern ball pythons all purchased from John Kick in Columbus, Ohio. These all have been and are still in excellent health. All of them fed within 2 days of me getting them home and are gorgeous. I have never had a problem from any animal I purchased from these guys in the almost 15 years I have been dealing with them at the All Ohio Swap. Just my .02 worth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rick Bilby

 

[liquidleaf]

Yep, I never had problems with any of the animals I got either, which made what happened even more of a shocking disappointment. It seems like they care for the 'higher dollar' animals better than others. Hopefully the future SPCA inspections show improvement.

 

[gixxer3420]

Pets Plus owns and runs the upstairs as well as the retail store down stairs. Markhiems(not sure how to spell it) Has a nice selection of reptiles they are on Sheridain Drive. Their animals always look helathy and their cages are all clean and organized.

 

[liquidleaf]

Yep, I frequently go to Markheim (that's where I got my female hog island boa) - I like how they make sure to educate buyers (and post lots of information) on the importance of feeding frozen thawed rodents rather than live when possible.

 

[jadednightdragon]

!!!! This is NOT a good summer for herps in Western New York.

I'm trying to help place geckos from the raid last month on the "Cheektowaga" residence that may be involved with TSE, and in today's paper was this story....

http://www.spcaec.com/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=5797

You know that RARE (Reptile Adoption Rehabilitation & Education) did take in a lot of the geckos, but did you see the SPCA show their gratitude and give credit to RARE on their site? Nope!

I do not have a good opinion on the SPCA when they are brought in for reptiles. I have personally dealt with them when wanting to adopt an iguana. I was turned away because the animal was under observation, but came back when they said to, only to find they put the iggy down because no one wanted him.

I spoke with a friend of mine who deals with the SPCA and their reptiles, and she says that Pets Plus will eventually get their animals back, "As long as the SPCA get their publicity". The SPCA shuns other smaller animals rescues because of the fact that they take away from their income.

This opinion is only directed to the Erie county SPCA. I'm sure there are some knowledgeable people at some SPCA places, but from what I've experienced, there's none at the SPCA of Erie county.

 

[Marc's Reptiles]

the kicks were just at the syracuse show aug 26 I seen someone buy a snake off them and turned around and went back cause it had mites. Also when I was getting into boas about 12 yrs ago I bought a couple of high pink boas off them and they would not eat and then died. I even bought a Ball python once for my girlfriend back then and found two ticks attached to it. The might be good guys to some people but to me I think they have too many animals and not enough people to take care of them, also its all about the MONEY for them quick to make a sale. Just my thoughts.

 

[gixxer3420]

Thtas my exact thopughts on them as well.

 

[gixxer3420]

Now if I knew how to spell that would have made sense.

"Thats my exact thoughts on them as well"

 

[spawn]

I hate like hell to dig up an old thread, but has anyone been to this facility recently? I don't want to make the two hour drive just to find a bunch of poorly kept animals. I'm interested in their snakes/frogs. I try giving them a call but they're dodgy as all hell on the phone, like they don't have time to answer my simple question if they have a certain animal in stock.

 

[brian abrams]

I purchased a male pastel & a female spiderball last fall from Pets Plus in Lockport. I've never had a problem with either snake, and may be purchasing another female morph later this year. When you call, ask for Fred or Bobby. Both are very friendly & helpful, and will gladly answer all your questions. This is my first post, by the way on the BOI.

 

[spawn]

Do you know which guy [Fred/Bobby] would know more about the frogs?

 

[brian abrams]

Fred is the owner, so I assume that he would. However Bobby has been there for awhile & specializes in the reptiles & amphibians. He is also real enthusiastic about it, & is an avid herper himself. He's really friendly and helpful, whether you show up at the store or give him a call.