spawn
mossy frogs are the hardiest frogs
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Pets Plus Lockport, Kick Brothers - (INFO)
- Thread starter liquidleaf
- Start date
spawn
mossy frogs are the hardiest frogs
So I went to the place today, and I have to say, it was the nicest petstore I've ever been in. Bill/Eric were both very knowledgeable, friendly, and approachable with my questions, and I wasn't exactly making their job easy (trying to track someone down to sex their mossy frogs while I apprehensively stared and examined the frogs). It was a very enjoyable experience, very big and organized, and clean. Animals all looked great, and I have no complaints.
brian abrams
New member
I'm glad it worked out for you, Frank. It just so happens I was there also yesterday looking at female Ball python morphs, and purchased a lemon pastel. Since I live less than an hour away, I've purchased all 3 of my balls there.
spawn
mossy frogs are the hardiest frogs
Well, it didn't really work out for me. I didn't buy anything (no female mossy frogs), but did spend a good amount of gas on the hour and a half trip from Rochester. But the fact that it wasn't a run-of-the-mill Petco or Petsmart made the trip worthwhile. I hadn't seen tentacle snakes/mudskippers in so long, that made the trip worthwhile for me. I envy your close distance to that place. I'd hate like hell to make the trip again if they get any other animals in that I'd want. Do you think they'd ship?
brian abrams
New member
They do a lot of shipping, and are always running adds on Kingsnake. Pull up the ball python and Boa constrictor Classifieds. Fred has the store phone # & his cell # posted.
brrrman
New member
Hey Spawn?
Not to get off the thread, but if you live in Rochester, check out Captive Life Forms. They just opened a new 3000 sq. ft store in spencerport. and they offer nothing but the best quality.
John and Fred are good guys in my book but with the cost of fuel nowadays
i think your better off paying a few dollars more to get hometown business, quality and support, these guys back up their animals with years of experience.
Not to get off the thread, but if you live in Rochester, check out Captive Life Forms. They just opened a new 3000 sq. ft store in spencerport. and they offer nothing but the best quality.
John and Fred are good guys in my book but with the cost of fuel nowadays
i think your better off paying a few dollars more to get hometown business, quality and support, these guys back up their animals with years of experience.
spawn
mossy frogs are the hardiest frogs
I have been to their original establishment when they were next to Millenium Games. I have called them since moving and they're really just snake guys. I have to get out there to see what they've done with the place because the old one was spectacular too. I know they're the best of the best there, just they don't have anything I'm after! I asked if they had any vine snakes, and the guy on the phone reacted like I asked him on a date. After hanging up I realized I insulted him with that import garbage, since the store's TITLE is Captive Life Forms, haha. 
snakemansnakes
Have u seen my 'tapler?
ive went to them a 2 times and both times i left with more than the snake that i went there for.(mites).......not good business people at all..........
ReptileJay
Active member
I have had quite a bit of experience with these jokers... When I was much younger and fairly new to the hobby I had purchased a Young Green Tree python from them. They assured me that the snake was captive bred, eating, and in perfect health, and also offered a gurantee of it's health. However, it was "against their policy" to take the snake out of it's "enclosure" without getting payment. Anyway, I purchased the animal and took it home. After an inspection, I found not only did the snake have mites, but mouth rot and a resp infection. I contacted them about the snake at once, and recieved nothing but their assurance that the snake they sold could not possibly have been ill. 2 days after bringing the snake home, it died. I brought the corpse back to the store along with the reciept and was told to leave. They refused to even acknowledge that the snake was purchased from them and said that if the snake died it was no one's fault but my own. Granted, I was young then, but I always did my research before purchasing (or even considering) an animal. Either way, no refund, no acknowlegement, nothing.
Since then I have seen them at a LOT of reptile shows, and have even on occasion stopped into their retail store, just to see if they had done anything as far as cleaning their act up. It was not at all surprising to find that they had not. At the shows they sell animals out of overcrowded aquariums housing an obscene number of animals, not even all of the same species. (ex. 10-12 Chineese Water Dragons and 5-8 Mountain Horned Dragons being sold out of a 10Gal aquarium.) I understand having to conserve space at a show, since you only have the space you have to work with, BUT this blatant disregard for the wellbeing of the animals is outright wrong. I've seen people who are only in it for the money... and these guys are definately those guys.
The Kick Brothers = Reptile Addicts = Pets Plus (lockport)...
I'm sorry to bring up an old post...but these people are SCUM... and should be avoided at ALL costs.
Since then I have seen them at a LOT of reptile shows, and have even on occasion stopped into their retail store, just to see if they had done anything as far as cleaning their act up. It was not at all surprising to find that they had not. At the shows they sell animals out of overcrowded aquariums housing an obscene number of animals, not even all of the same species. (ex. 10-12 Chineese Water Dragons and 5-8 Mountain Horned Dragons being sold out of a 10Gal aquarium.) I understand having to conserve space at a show, since you only have the space you have to work with, BUT this blatant disregard for the wellbeing of the animals is outright wrong. I've seen people who are only in it for the money... and these guys are definately those guys.
The Kick Brothers = Reptile Addicts = Pets Plus (lockport)...
I'm sorry to bring up an old post...but these people are SCUM... and should be avoided at ALL costs.
brian abrams
New member
Kick Brothers-Pets Plus
Jason, I appreciate the heads-up. I'm sorry about the GTP, and you definately have a right to be pissed. The 3 snakes I bought from Fred are doing well, & I always had pleasant dealings from them, so I feel fortunate. I also realize that unless you know about others that have been taken advantage of, you may never have the whole picture. This is what's great about the BOI.
Jason, I appreciate the heads-up. I'm sorry about the GTP, and you definately have a right to be pissed. The 3 snakes I bought from Fred are doing well, & I always had pleasant dealings from them, so I feel fortunate. I also realize that unless you know about others that have been taken advantage of, you may never have the whole picture. This is what's great about the BOI.
ReptileJay
Active member
I'm glad things worked out well for you Brian, I can't imagine ALL their animals are of poor quality... so odds are a percentage of their animals do end up making it and doing well... I've just learned to avoid anything that comes from a place that deals primarily in wild caught animals... too much risk involved
ReptileJay
Active member
Here's a picture I meant to post earlier... but I wasn't on my laptop before, and it turns out the picture was...
Anyway... this is a picture taken of part of the "Reptile Addicts" setup at a show in Cleveland OH... or Columbus... I forget which show it was, but I know it was one of the Ohio shows... Regardless, this is pretty much ALWAYS what their "setups" look like...
I must admit... I can't see anyone who cares about the animals having them displayed this way. In my opinion... it pretty much proves that there is really only one driving force in this business...$$$
No water, No heat, No space...
Anyway... this is a picture taken of part of the "Reptile Addicts" setup at a show in Cleveland OH... or Columbus... I forget which show it was, but I know it was one of the Ohio shows... Regardless, this is pretty much ALWAYS what their "setups" look like...
I must admit... I can't see anyone who cares about the animals having them displayed this way. In my opinion... it pretty much proves that there is really only one driving force in this business...$$$
No water, No heat, No space...
bigdogg
Boa God
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Well from that picture.
Yes maybe there are a few too many in that one tank. But they are not set up like that when they get back. All dealers don't set up the animals exact cage at a show. Technically all dealers set the animals up in too small of cages. But they are only like that for a short amount of time. But I do see where you are coming from. Should have been less amount of animals in those tanks.
How many reptile dealers give there animals water at shows. Not too many at the shows I attend (I attend about 70+ a year) . But the thing you don't see is when Kick starts to break down he goes through and mist each one of those tanks. So the animals that need it do get water. But some don't need it everyday.
Heat is a hard thing to give animals at a show. I know in all those boxes behind Kicks table are heat packs and the animals are transported with heat. And the building stays at an ok temp for how long the show last. But usually he does have a heater with him if it gets to cold he cranks that on to heat up his space of animals.
But yes Kick deals with a lot of WC animals. Also a lot of CB/CH stuff. Some of those WC animals you can't get CB. Also a lot of people won't pay the price it would take for a CB Iguana lets say for an example. He tries to offer all the animals he can for the best price out there. I know it can't be all about the money for them. Seeing as how many shows they do attend and how far away each of them are from their shop. They spend a lot of money just to get to these shows. Also a lot of their time. But you hear the "oh they are all about the money statement" all the time. Which every vendor that comes to show is in it for the money. Every breeder that sells animals is. They still love the animals or believe me they wouln't waste their time dealing with all of them. But if someone wasn't in it for the money then they wouldn't sell animals. when they bred them they would just give them away. But someone has to pay for the breeders to make all the cool morphs and bring the new morphs in from various places. And to feed the adults to produce all these animals. It isn't cheap either way you look at it.
From my expierence Kick has always made good on every deal we made. I have bought many things from him and all were fine. But figured I would give an explanation from a Vendor Standpoint. So sorry for making this thread even longer and bringing up more discussion but hey thats what the BOI is for. Discussing the problems out.
Yes maybe there are a few too many in that one tank. But they are not set up like that when they get back. All dealers don't set up the animals exact cage at a show. Technically all dealers set the animals up in too small of cages. But they are only like that for a short amount of time. But I do see where you are coming from. Should have been less amount of animals in those tanks.
How many reptile dealers give there animals water at shows. Not too many at the shows I attend (I attend about 70+ a year) . But the thing you don't see is when Kick starts to break down he goes through and mist each one of those tanks. So the animals that need it do get water. But some don't need it everyday.
Heat is a hard thing to give animals at a show. I know in all those boxes behind Kicks table are heat packs and the animals are transported with heat. And the building stays at an ok temp for how long the show last. But usually he does have a heater with him if it gets to cold he cranks that on to heat up his space of animals.
But yes Kick deals with a lot of WC animals. Also a lot of CB/CH stuff. Some of those WC animals you can't get CB. Also a lot of people won't pay the price it would take for a CB Iguana lets say for an example. He tries to offer all the animals he can for the best price out there. I know it can't be all about the money for them. Seeing as how many shows they do attend and how far away each of them are from their shop. They spend a lot of money just to get to these shows. Also a lot of their time. But you hear the "oh they are all about the money statement" all the time. Which every vendor that comes to show is in it for the money. Every breeder that sells animals is. They still love the animals or believe me they wouln't waste their time dealing with all of them. But if someone wasn't in it for the money then they wouldn't sell animals. when they bred them they would just give them away. But someone has to pay for the breeders to make all the cool morphs and bring the new morphs in from various places. And to feed the adults to produce all these animals. It isn't cheap either way you look at it.
From my expierence Kick has always made good on every deal we made. I have bought many things from him and all were fine. But figured I would give an explanation from a Vendor Standpoint. So sorry for making this thread even longer and bringing up more discussion but hey thats what the BOI is for. Discussing the problems out.
ReptileJay
Active member
So... you're saying that EVERY breeder that sells animals is "all about the money"
I'm sure a LOT of breeders would see that statement and be fairly enraged... I know I, for one, am.They go to the shows because they are making thousands of dollars per show. That's WAY more than they're spending on maintaining their animals... or their store... or their fines...
The Kick brothers HIRE a LOT of people to "take care" of the animals... if they cared so much about the animals, why wouldn't they do it themselves? and why would their animals almost always look like complete garbage? I understand having too many animals for one person to take care of, I've been there, BUT I always made sure that I was overlooking EVERYTHING, not leaving the care to employees alone.
Anyone who wanted to make money would travel as far as they needed to to make that money. They do not travel because they love the animals, they travel for the cash. Transporting large quantities of animals multiple times a month is stressful on the animal, not to mention the cramped quarters they travel in. (there is no chance that the animals have more space in their traveling arrangement [in the van] than they do in their overcrowded aquarium at the show). And on top of that, I HIGHLY doubt that they have all that much more space in their "permanent housing" back in the attic of "Pets Plus". If they were keeping their "upstairs show animals" in good conditions, why wouldn't they keep the animals they have on display in something better? Honestly, if YOU had a retail store, I'm sure you would want your animals that were on display to look better than the ones that were NOT on display...
I know it's easy for you to try to talk to me like I have no idea what I am doing... But I am not an idiot.
If these guys cared about their animals, you wouldn't see their retail store in the condition it is usually in, you would not hear about DEC raids and problems with the Humane societies. You would not see their overcrowded cages (at shows OR at their retail store).
I do not care who you are, you cannot tell me that ANYONE who sets up at shows multiple times a month, trying to sell hundreds of wild caught animals for profit CARE more about the animals than about the cash.
I know a LOT of breeders that care more about the animals and the joy of keeping and raising the animals than about the money, and I assure you, the Kick Brothers are NOT those people.
bigdogg
Boa God
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Well never called you an idiot. No implying you were one. But sorry if you thought that. I just wanted to state my opinion like you did yours.
Didn't want the statement to say all breeders are about the money. But guess it did come out that way (my bad). I breed and sell animals for a living. It is my favorite thing to do. So why not make money at it. Everyone would like to do their favorite thing for a living. Only few people actually make that reality.
Well he may make tons of money at shows. But you should know taking care of a high number of animals isn't cheap. At the shop is even worse. Shows you don't have half the overhead as at a retail location. Just to keep a retail shop open cost 5-10k a month in bills. Feeding animals on top of that even if only twice month will cost a ton.
Everyone keeping a high number of animals needs help. Plus having the shop open you have to have people there to assist customers. They hire as many people as needed. I have only been to their shop once as I live in Northwest Ohio and thats a haul for me to get up there. But when I did go there the cages were clean and it didn't look bad at all. All cages were clean, had water, heat and everything the animal needed. Maybe I caught them on a good day. I don't think either Kick would leave everything to the employees. I have seen Jon clean cages, water animals, heck even pack up animals. So not just sitting back letting his employees take over.
Yeah the cramping thing is stressful on the animal. But really the only thing that is more cramped then others is the stuff that is bagged and put into boxes. Which rarely is it the same stuff over and over again. At least that I noticed. But they don't have a small building and nothing was cramped when I was there. Having a building that size isn't to smart if your not utilizing the space. So I don't think they have rooming issues back at the shop. But hey like I said only been there once. So can only tell you how I see it.
Yeah I am nobody special. I am sure Kick made some mistakes before. Everyone has. IMO nobody is perfect. But IMO I have never had a bad dealing with kick and he has never lied to me saying a CB animal was WC. He tells it how it is at least to me.
I can't explain what they do and why they do it. I am just saying what I see. I think they have the love for the animals. They also do what they have to do stay alive in this economy. But I am sorry if I offended anyone by what I wrote. I didn't mean to. Just wanted to get my opinion about the Kick's out there. And see if I could help explain why somethings are the way they are.
Didn't want the statement to say all breeders are about the money. But guess it did come out that way (my bad). I breed and sell animals for a living. It is my favorite thing to do. So why not make money at it. Everyone would like to do their favorite thing for a living. Only few people actually make that reality.
Well he may make tons of money at shows. But you should know taking care of a high number of animals isn't cheap. At the shop is even worse. Shows you don't have half the overhead as at a retail location. Just to keep a retail shop open cost 5-10k a month in bills. Feeding animals on top of that even if only twice month will cost a ton.
Everyone keeping a high number of animals needs help. Plus having the shop open you have to have people there to assist customers. They hire as many people as needed. I have only been to their shop once as I live in Northwest Ohio and thats a haul for me to get up there. But when I did go there the cages were clean and it didn't look bad at all. All cages were clean, had water, heat and everything the animal needed. Maybe I caught them on a good day. I don't think either Kick would leave everything to the employees. I have seen Jon clean cages, water animals, heck even pack up animals. So not just sitting back letting his employees take over.
Yeah the cramping thing is stressful on the animal. But really the only thing that is more cramped then others is the stuff that is bagged and put into boxes. Which rarely is it the same stuff over and over again. At least that I noticed. But they don't have a small building and nothing was cramped when I was there. Having a building that size isn't to smart if your not utilizing the space. So I don't think they have rooming issues back at the shop. But hey like I said only been there once. So can only tell you how I see it.
Yeah I am nobody special. I am sure Kick made some mistakes before. Everyone has. IMO nobody is perfect. But IMO I have never had a bad dealing with kick and he has never lied to me saying a CB animal was WC. He tells it how it is at least to me.
I can't explain what they do and why they do it. I am just saying what I see. I think they have the love for the animals. They also do what they have to do stay alive in this economy. But I am sorry if I offended anyone by what I wrote. I didn't mean to. Just wanted to get my opinion about the Kick's out there. And see if I could help explain why somethings are the way they are.
rocko2527
New member
Thats odd every time I'm there I cant find any one to help out but that doesn't matter I will never step another foot in there let alone give them money
brian abrams
New member
Kick Brothers
John, I agree with you in a number of ways. I thought their retail store always looked good when I was there. I never dealt with John, but Fred has always been great to deal with, and Bobby as well. You are right about the fact about that is IS a business with them, and not just a hobby. After all, they are huge wholesalers. I certainly dont have a problem with that, them making money, or even making LOTS of money. However, Jason buys a snake from them that they dont let him handle before buying. When he gets it home, it turns out to have mouth rot, mites, RI, etc. He then calls them, and they tell him to just wait, give it time, the snake will be OK. It then dies 2 days later, he takes the dead snake back to the store, WITH the receipt, and they tell him someting like it's not their problem, even denying that he bought the snake there??? That' complete BS.
John, I agree with you in a number of ways. I thought their retail store always looked good when I was there. I never dealt with John, but Fred has always been great to deal with, and Bobby as well. You are right about the fact about that is IS a business with them, and not just a hobby. After all, they are huge wholesalers. I certainly dont have a problem with that, them making money, or even making LOTS of money. However, Jason buys a snake from them that they dont let him handle before buying. When he gets it home, it turns out to have mouth rot, mites, RI, etc. He then calls them, and they tell him to just wait, give it time, the snake will be OK. It then dies 2 days later, he takes the dead snake back to the store, WITH the receipt, and they tell him someting like it's not their problem, even denying that he bought the snake there??? That' complete BS.
ReptileJay
Active member
I never said I had any problem with people making money breeding or selling reptiles either. The problem I have is when people blatantly exploit animals and misrepresenting them to make a buck. THAT makes this entire hobby look bad.
The deal I made with them involving the snake that died was many years ago. I know some things have changed since then, but nevertheless, they are still selling animals that are FAR from high quality. Their store STILL (as of about a month ago) contains displays that look more like GENOCIDE than like a habitat. They still transport hundreds of animals multiple times a month to shows as an attempt to sell them before they die off in their facility.
I am referring to more than JUST their show setups. I understand that shows tend to be crowded (it's not like I've never set up at shows before), but I have run a retail store as well. I know that there is no way their store would be open if they needed the income from the shows to pay their bills.
I personally would NEVER deal with these people again. (not only due to the snake incident) on top of that, I inadvertently purchased leopard geckos from them... I didn't realize at the time of purchase that it was them, it was the first show I had gone to where they were set up, and neither of the Kick Brothers were at the table, and there were no signs indicating who they were. I talked to one of the employees about the geckos, determined that they were fairly healthy based on what I heard. They looked a little thin, but not sickly thin. I figured that they were just not being fed quite enough, no huge deal. I buy 3 geckos, bring them home, quarantine them, find a fairly bad case of coccidia in all 3 of them. I manage to get that cleared up in 2 of them, one died. After the coccidia was gone, it was rather difficult to get them to eat. After quite a while of trying all different foods and strategies, one did decide to eat, the 1 male out of the 1.2 group. The other female did eventually end up eating, but did not last very long at all. Of the 3 geckos, only 1 survived for more than a year, and the other two died without even showing any signs of being healthy.
Yet another lesson learned in my early years in the hobby, as they again had no interest in rectifying the situation.
I am not saying that these guys never have any animals that are "high Quality", but I can't help but think that their "high Quality" animals will not STAY high quality for very long in their care...
The deal I made with them involving the snake that died was many years ago. I know some things have changed since then, but nevertheless, they are still selling animals that are FAR from high quality. Their store STILL (as of about a month ago) contains displays that look more like GENOCIDE than like a habitat. They still transport hundreds of animals multiple times a month to shows as an attempt to sell them before they die off in their facility.
I am referring to more than JUST their show setups. I understand that shows tend to be crowded (it's not like I've never set up at shows before), but I have run a retail store as well. I know that there is no way their store would be open if they needed the income from the shows to pay their bills.
I personally would NEVER deal with these people again. (not only due to the snake incident) on top of that, I inadvertently purchased leopard geckos from them... I didn't realize at the time of purchase that it was them, it was the first show I had gone to where they were set up, and neither of the Kick Brothers were at the table, and there were no signs indicating who they were. I talked to one of the employees about the geckos, determined that they were fairly healthy based on what I heard. They looked a little thin, but not sickly thin. I figured that they were just not being fed quite enough, no huge deal. I buy 3 geckos, bring them home, quarantine them, find a fairly bad case of coccidia in all 3 of them. I manage to get that cleared up in 2 of them, one died. After the coccidia was gone, it was rather difficult to get them to eat. After quite a while of trying all different foods and strategies, one did decide to eat, the 1 male out of the 1.2 group. The other female did eventually end up eating, but did not last very long at all. Of the 3 geckos, only 1 survived for more than a year, and the other two died without even showing any signs of being healthy.
Yet another lesson learned in my early years in the hobby, as they again had no interest in rectifying the situation.
I am not saying that these guys never have any animals that are "high Quality", but I can't help but think that their "high Quality" animals will not STAY high quality for very long in their care...
brian abrams
New member
Kick Brothers
Jason, I didn't imply that you personally have a problem with them paying their bills, or making money. I also can understand your thorough disgust, as I now know of at least 2 situations that you got burnt & treated like crap. But like it or not-it IS a business! I think one of the reasons I've been lucky is that their ball morphs may be CBB, & a lot of their other animals WC. After all, it IS a pet-store, I it seems that in pet-stores you run into this a lot. I'm sorry, but I don't have a problem with them selling WC like the rest of the pet-stores, as long as they don't LIE about it. Like I also stated, I do have a big problem with them misrepresenting WC animals as CBB & disease-free, and then giving you the shaft afterwards. After all, they do have money & they should of giving you credit towards another animal or a refund to say the least! This is absolutely no way to treat customers in ANY business. To be honest with you, I don't blame you one bit if you never deal with them again.
Jason, I didn't imply that you personally have a problem with them paying their bills, or making money. I also can understand your thorough disgust, as I now know of at least 2 situations that you got burnt & treated like crap. But like it or not-it IS a business! I think one of the reasons I've been lucky is that their ball morphs may be CBB, & a lot of their other animals WC. After all, it IS a pet-store, I it seems that in pet-stores you run into this a lot. I'm sorry, but I don't have a problem with them selling WC like the rest of the pet-stores, as long as they don't LIE about it. Like I also stated, I do have a big problem with them misrepresenting WC animals as CBB & disease-free, and then giving you the shaft afterwards. After all, they do have money & they should of giving you credit towards another animal or a refund to say the least! This is absolutely no way to treat customers in ANY business. To be honest with you, I don't blame you one bit if you never deal with them again.
Serpent Syndicate
New member
Fred Kick
I was on Kingsnake one night and saw Fred selling some ball pythons. I called him up and inquired about what else he may have for sale. So we got to talking and I purchased 4 snakes from him. The one snake is the reason for this reply. Albino Male, I called the second I opened the snake bag and asked him what was wrong with the vent on the Albino. He told me that the snake had been cooled and it was his Hemmy sticking out. Now, I haven"t done much breeding until this year and from what it looked like it could have been. well a few weeks later I pull the snake out after he hooked up with the Het albino I also purchased from Fred, there was blood all over the place, there was apparantly a tumor of some type growing out from the Vent of the Albino. I call Fred and ask him what the hell is wrong with the snake, he then proceeds to tell me that the snake was born with a deformed vent and that it will not bother him, I told him that it did bother him and it is all grown and bloody and puss was oozing out of it. So I took it to the Vet and they gave me some shots and cream. The meds stopped the growth and its not as bloody anymore and I am going to see another vet to see about surgery to get it fixed. So back and forth Fred and I go at it, he says send me the reciept for the Vet Bill and said he would help out, well guess what, nope never happened. I told him that he lied to me when we innitially spoke about the snakes and that he owes me another good Albino Male snake, he tells me that he doesn't have to do a G" D" Thing, I told him that it was bad business to be treating people like this. Anyways, I think he is a BAD guy and I will never do business with him again.
I was on Kingsnake one night and saw Fred selling some ball pythons. I called him up and inquired about what else he may have for sale. So we got to talking and I purchased 4 snakes from him. The one snake is the reason for this reply. Albino Male, I called the second I opened the snake bag and asked him what was wrong with the vent on the Albino. He told me that the snake had been cooled and it was his Hemmy sticking out. Now, I haven"t done much breeding until this year and from what it looked like it could have been. well a few weeks later I pull the snake out after he hooked up with the Het albino I also purchased from Fred, there was blood all over the place, there was apparantly a tumor of some type growing out from the Vent of the Albino. I call Fred and ask him what the hell is wrong with the snake, he then proceeds to tell me that the snake was born with a deformed vent and that it will not bother him, I told him that it did bother him and it is all grown and bloody and puss was oozing out of it. So I took it to the Vet and they gave me some shots and cream. The meds stopped the growth and its not as bloody anymore and I am going to see another vet to see about surgery to get it fixed. So back and forth Fred and I go at it, he says send me the reciept for the Vet Bill and said he would help out, well guess what, nope never happened. I told him that he lied to me when we innitially spoke about the snakes and that he owes me another good Albino Male snake, he tells me that he doesn't have to do a G" D" Thing, I told him that it was bad business to be treating people like this. Anyways, I think he is a BAD guy and I will never do business with him again.