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Prehistoric Pets UPDATE

D

Dan Camara

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Hi guys, I had posted about these guys just before the site went down, so I'm not sure how many ppl. saw the post.  The Fountain Valley Prehistoric Pets is about 15min. from my house and despite all the posts about them, I decided to go in and see for myself.  At first, the store looked fairly clean and bright; that is, until I looked in any of the cages.  I was in the market for a baby Argentine boa, so I checked them out first.  They had some decently-patterned babies, but upon closer inspection, I saw ticks all over them!  If you are not familiar with Argentine boas, they are extremely endangered in the wild so any babies you see are captive bred.  I was disgusted that they would allow their babies to be exposed to ticks!  So I decided to look around at the rest of their animals.  I'm not a big lizard/moniter guy, but they had some BIG moniters in some SMALL cages.  A few looked like they didn't have enough room to even turn around, let alone move anywhere.  I admit I don't know moniters, but I think my common sense is enough to know these are not adequate accomodations.  I dreaded what I knew what I was going to find when I checked out their baby ball pythons, as these always suffer the worst forms of pet shop abuse.  Now, I don't know if they got in to the cage through the many cracks in the melamine or if they were intentionally put in as food, but there were crickets crawling all over their cage!  Anyone who knows anything about snakes knows ball pythons don't eat crickets.  Even the PetCo near me knows this.  How can a store trusted with all sorts of rare species (i.e. Galapagos tortoises) not know the basic needs of probably the most popular snake in the pet industry???  I was baffled.
  Concerning the ticks I found on several of the animals, I know that Jay has posted that he uses displays to hold animals being treated.  However, these snakes were provided a TINY water dish that even the smallest couldn't fit into to soak, so I doubt there was any efforts to rid them of such pests.  Additionally, there was a nice big price tag right on the boas' window.  I guarantee if I began waving $179 around, I could have walked out of there with one of those infested snakes.  Which brings me to my next point.  If you check out their website and their many classifieds on kingsnake.com, they price their baby Argentines for $125, but the store priced them at $179.  So do you only get the cheap price over the internet?  Or if you ask for the "internet rate" when you go into the store?  I guess I just don't understand, which is ok with me.  I will avoid this place like the plague...who knows what diseases those ticks carry...  You have been warned!
 
OK...We've been warned!! BUT....IF what you say it true (I don't know&#33<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>, IF the state of the animals are in the condition you say (I don't know&#33<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>, IF the conditions they're being kept in are inadequate (I don't know&#33<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>....WHY are you NOT putting in a complaint to your local authorities and the local Fish and Game??? Would you rather just stick your head in the sand and make believe it never happened?? If you've ALREADY notified authorities....you've done the RIGHT THING!! If you haven't, as of yet....those are anmals in YOUR neighborhood!! DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!! Why make the animals suffer even more?? ....Neil
 
I have to say,up until 2 months ago i lived close to PP as well and I also reported them to various animal control groups in the area due to their deplorable conditions. Nothing ever came of it.  I know for a fact that there are a few people there that bust their A$$es to do what they have to do to keep the animals clean and in good shape, but thats just not enough.  If the owner doesnt care about the animals, ya can't really expect the $7 dollar an hour employees that he hires to.  Conditions were so bad there that EVERYTIME my girlfriend and I went there, she had to go into the backrooms and give water and spray the animals HERSELF cause there were so many dehydrated, mite infested, tick ridden animals.  When we asked the employees why there was a broken flourescent lite with pieces of glass scattered in the empty water dish of an albino burm's cage, they just laughed and said yea, #### be ok, well get to it.  WHAT??

If you think what you saw in the display cages were bad, if you saw what was in the back, you would be horrified, but i digress.  I will not hide the fact that I have bought stuff there.  Cages, food, water bowels, etc.  But i only bought 4 animals from there and that was simply to get them out of the horrid conditions in which they were housed.  I even over paid for a skinny, tick infested chondro because I just wanted to get it out of there.  

I also found the web prices to be much lower than the prices of the same animals in the store.  Could it be cause you can easily doctor a photo (A practice which I KNOW the owner does because I've seen him do it, he made it no secret to me). He makes the picture look more appealing than the actual animal is cause he figures if he sells more of em online for a cheaper price, he still makes the same profit. Makes ya wonder doesn't it.  Again, this is not true of all the employees there.  Some I know personally and are good people who work 10 hours a day to do what they can for the animals.  But its a big place and 3 people cant do it all. I wont even go into the dozens of other stories I have about PP, but I agree with the first post.  

Dan, if you're in Southern California and still want an Argentine Boa, get in touch with Jack Dyer.  He's a smaller dealer than prehistoric pets, but his animals are PERFECT.  He's a classy guy and is always willing to share his knowledge of the animals.  He's everything that Prehistoric Pets is not.  I have an agentine boa from him and I couldnt be happier.  Not kissing his A$$, just givin credit where credit is due.
 
Thanks guys for your responses, just letting everyone know (especially Neil <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>) that I've contacted the Orange County Humane Society and California Fish and Game.  We'll see if I even get a response out of them....I'm fairly certain that they get regular complaints against this store.

Dan Camara
[email protected]
 
well as for prices differing on the retail vs. internet I under stand why you attract new customers with great prices and you spend less time on an internet sale.If you are local buy it online and pick it up.As for animal care if it's true they should be investigated. He is in our state and have heard stories but it's the customers that need to complain. Jim Lewis
 
Well the truth is that you have to be careful whenever you buy animals.  In the first post PetCo was mentioned.  In high school and college I worked in several PetCo's as a Lead Associate and Reptile Specialist and let me tell you I worked 12 hour days (4 hours unpaid overtime) trying to keep the reptiles, fish and small animals clean.  SoCal PetCo's receive their reptiles from West Coast Reptiles and Cal Zoo and let me tell you that the reptiles are the worst I have ever seen.  West Coast isn't as bad, but Cal Zoo is terrible.  The animals would ALWAYS be mite infested and sickly.  But does PetCo care? NO.  Because Cal Zoo and West Coast Reptiles fly the PetCo reps to places like Hawaii for meetings to review animal policies (must be nice).

Anyway, truth be told you just have to be careful.  Sure I have had bad experiences with Prehistoric Pets (ie $$$ leopard geckos that lay 2 eggs and die or never lay at all) but I have also had some good experiences (ie 1.1 Albino Reticulated Pythons that are to die for).  Whether you are at Prehistoric Pets, PetCo, a convention or your friends house you must check out the condition of the animal before you buy.  Internet buyers beware, but most places have a guarantee.  Atleast if you buy from someone who has a reputable site and/or a store front then you know that you can complain and maybe get satisfaction.

For you SoCal'rs, have you ever been to LLL or Reptile Haven?  Every leopard gecko I have purchased from LLL, save one, has died!!!

Brice Logan
SnakeBroker.com
 
It's strange that you mention LLL, because I've done business in there and I'm good friends with one of the employees.  They seem to have great animals EXCEPT for their leopards!  I dunno what it is, but the only negative things I've heard about them is ppl. getting piss-poor leo's.  Personally, I'm happy with the products I've bought there and HAVEN'T bought there....for example:
 I had been in the market for an Argentine boa aways back, so I went to check out what they had.  There were two very pretty babies in one of their displays, but it was not labelled.  I asked the girl at the counter about them and she said they weren't for sale.  I asked "why not???" and she replied that both animals were eating well, but continually losing weight.  They were going to the vet later that week and would not be for sale until they had got them growing steadily.  IMO, this is great service.  They could have sold off these animals to an experienced herper, as they looked healthy and they would even eat!  But they simply weren't going to put unhealthy animals on the market.

Dan
 
BTW, I still haven't heard from Fish & Game or the local humane society, so I'll try again with some phone calls.  As for Reptile Haven, I really prefer LLL because it's so much cleaner and well-maintained.  Reptile Haven has always been a bit dirty and smelly and the animals always have this "Kill Me Now" look on their faces.  I'd rather spend my money at a place that doesn't keep 4 or 5 species of snakes in one big tank (check out their garters/green snakes/racers to see what I mean).  Just my experience.....

Dan
 
Well, let me start off by saying that I've never been to Prehistoric Pets facility but I have dealt with Jay Brewer (the owner) on three separate occasions and have received exceptionally nice albino retics from him as well as excellent customer service. I would not hesitate to do business with him again and always find it a pleasure to do so. I know first hand he stands behind what he sells 100% and that to me means everything. <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>
 
Yah, I love my albino retics.  THEY ROCK!!!  Oh yah, and THEY EAT!!  #### they are eating me out of house and home  <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>

What phases did you get?  I have to take some pics of my male, he actually, no kidding, has blotches in the shape of yellow ducks on his back hence his name Duckman.  Several people noticed the ducks and commented on them.

Jay has be very helpful not just with my retics but with other animals as well.  I just know that he does not have a chance look over every animal and hey, when you deal with that many animals, there are bound to be situations and conditions that are not ideal.
 
HAVE YOU SEEN THERE ARGUS IN THAT CAGE? NO SUBSTRATE, NO LIGHTING, AND THE CAGE, HE CANT EVEN TURN AROUND! LOOK AT THE TEGUS! IT IS TRULY SAD IN THERE! THAT STORE IS HORRIBLE!
 
I am going to cut the people slack who said good things about PP. I assume that if you ever saw the place you would never buy from them.
Also, it does no good for people to complain, nothing ever happens.
That place is by far the nastiest pet store I have ever seen. I took off my clothes OUTSIDE my house after the last time I went there. (really&#33<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'> I did not want anything coming in with me.
What strikes me as odd is that people keep talking about stores as a good place to by reptiles. Why? Let me ask you, if Chevy would sell you a new truck direct, would you still go pay extra at a dealer?! It is the same way, being a breeder of tegus myself I can say for SURE that tegus purchased from me are better than you will get from any store. (and cheaper)The reason is simple, I care. You will not find (for the most part) better animals then just buying them from the breeder. Even breeders that only do it for the money will still be better than a store! Those breeders probably have those reptiles because they like them, stores only warehouse reptiles to resell them.
The other thing to consider is health. I do not bring in any WC stuff. I keep everything clean and don't take the chances with bringing in new reptiles everyday. (who knows what those new animals have!?)
The first post talked about crickets in with the pythons. I am sure they were not feeding BP's crickets. They probably moved some WC junk lizards out of that cage and threw the pythons in without cleaning it out!  How many times does that happen? How many times do water bowls get put from a WC cage to a CB cage? Think about that the next time you order a CB reptile from a store.
I don't think it is easy to have a reptile store. I don't think they are needed. Let Petco sell junk, why not take the high road and sell only CB? ($$$ thats why)
People who buy from stores instead of breeders get what they deserve and have the blood of all those sick reptiles on their own heads. I won't even sell my tegus wholesale let alone buy stuff there!
Just my thoughts...
Jeff Houston

BTW- Jack Dyer is a really cool guy with great animals. A classic case of getting great animals direct from the breeder.   <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>
 
Like I said I've never visited the store since I'm on the opposite coast but for the record Jay breeds all of his own albino retics and they are equal in quality to Bob Clark's. I bought an albino retic from Brian Sharp also and guess what? I traded it to Jay because he wanted my dark lavender phase. They should be as he was the second person to have hatched albinos from Bob's original hets. Perhaps Prehistoric Pets high end animals get better attention I really can't say.
 
Btw, Prehistoric Pets does breed some of their own animals, leopard geckos, reticulate pythons, burmese pythons, african rock pythons, etc.  So you can buy directly from the breeder at Prehistoric Pets.  Actually, the only purchases I have ever made there are of animals that Jay produced.
 
oh yeah, another thing to add to the list of how screwed up prehistoric pets is, check out what i figured out on the kingsnake classifieds.

i have noticed in the past that prehistoric pets always has at least one ad at the top of the page on both the boa classifieds and the python classifieds (the only two i check) and i have also noticed that ads for specific animals disappear sometimes.  well, i figured out what they are doing, they are posting more than three animals per day in each forum by posting their initial three, and then deleting them one at the time and replacing them with something new to keep their name at the top of the list.
so far today, they have posted these in the boa forum:
initial three:
kenyan sand boa
indian smooth scale sand boa
hypo het for anery redtail

deleted: hypo het for anery - posted: yellow female anaconda
deleted: indian smooth scale sand boa - posted: male yellow anaconda

python forum:
initial three:
irian jaya carpets
jungle carpets
macklotts

deleted: irian jaya - posted: patternless rock python
deleted: jungle carpet - posted: reticulated python

i have taken special notice of prehistoric pets after seeing several posts on the BOI of people who have gone into the store only to find the animals in absolutely deplorable conditions.  if it weren't for that, i probably would have never noticed their attempt at keeping their ads more current then everyone else and advertising more animals than everyone else.

just more crap to put up with from them.
later.
 
Any word on the poor housing and/or sick animals being taken care of yet. I was just curious because I was looking at one of there balls on kingsnake and then found all of these posts on them.
 
Prehistoric Pets has consistently shown that they don't give a damn about you or herps.

The only thing those guys care about is the almighty $. Well, they'll never get one red cent of mine (a bummer too 'cuz I had $800 cash in my pocket for some Bolivians when I saw the conditions and RAN from the store) nor will they get a penny from ANYONE that I can talk to first.

They should be shut down and fined every day until they get their act together.

Maybe Jay should spend a little time in one of his own enclosures....that way when he's dying of malnutrition, misnutrition, disease, and neglect, he would realize the animal cruelty that he seems to approve of.

Tom Chambers
TC Reptile
 
Thanks for the info/warning on these people as I was considerning a purchase from them, but not anymore. Glad I checked here first and found this post.
Thanks to all who gave feedback on these people, it is greatly appreciated.  <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>  <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>  <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>
 
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