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Problem with new electronic air conditioners....

WebSlave

WebSlave

It is what it is, but certainly not what it was.
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Today one of the mouse building air conditioners died so I had to replace it with a new unit I bought as a backup a few weeks ago. I always keep a spare around for when this happens.

Anyway I was talking to Doug Barr about the new electronic a/c units and he pointed out that they have a design "feature" that may prove to be problematical. With the old manual designs, when the power goes out, then comes back on, the a/c will simply power up and pick up where it left off at the last setting. With the new electronic units (hopefully not ALL of them) when the power goes out, then comes on, the units are dead until someone manually presses the button on the unit.

Now, this is a BIG problem for me. I have an automatic generator that will power on in case of a power outage. I got this as a safety feature for when we are away from home. But this is not going to do me a bit of good at all if the power goes out, yet the a/c units in the mouse building remain off. Matter of fact, when we got back, it would be a certainty that all of the mice in that building will be dead.

So this is a real problem. And could become worse as all the manufacturers might be going to this new electronic style a/c unit. So has anyone else run into this problem? Is there a way to modify the electronic units to automatically come on, or am I just sol and have to find the older manual models where ever I can?

Personally this is dumb as dirt to me. Even in a residence with a window A/C, it would seem to me that if they were away on a trip, they would want that a/c to come back on after a power outage. In central Florida in August, if the a/c would not crank back up, it would get extremely hot within a dwelling. If they had any sort of pet inside, it would most certainly die from the heat. So I can't believe this type of problem has cropped up for them yet about this design change.

Any ideas?
 
Rich

ok i had thought i posted this must have deleted it lol

Check into battery back up systems / aka UPS systems just like used on the computers , most have like a 1/2 hr run time on them and will pickup the power surge before its lost and you get uniterupted power . This would be prefect for you all depedning on the wattage of the AC unit itself but with the amount of $$$ you stand to loose in a down AC unit i would say a lil cost would be worth a lot of comfort ? ( get it AC... comfort ) lol and maybe even a standard unit would handle it since you have a generator back up system as long as it kicks in automatically the UPS would only be on a load for less then a minute and would power off as soon as it has AC current running into the unit . just some food for thought.
hope it helps
 
Yeah, I was toying with a way to make that work.

Before I had the big generator installed, I actually used to take one of my UPS units off of one of my computers and use it for the fans in the mouse building when we went on trips. I figured some airflow would be better than nothing. But I talked to the APC people about this and they told me that only certain types of UPS systems will work. Most use a square wave output that will destroy fans and motors pretty quickly. You have to use one that puts out a true sine wave output. So that's what I got, and it is NOT cheap. Darn heavy as well.

Since the mouse building as about as worse case of an atmosphere as you can get for electronic equipment, lifespan will be pretty short in there unless I jus move the unit in and out like I used to do when we go on trips (mostly herp shows for the weekend). But I may have no other choice. I guess even the cheap square wave units will hold up and not do permanent damage to the A/C unit for the 20 seconds it would have to run before the generator kicked in. But I can see where I would have to do some testing with it. A/Cs do draw a lot of current when the compressor is running. Worst case would be the power dropping out just as the compressor were starting to kick on. I'm not sure the UPS could hold up under that kind of load. And I am far too familiar with Murphy's Law to think that can't happen.

Anyway, maybe I'll cart of the 1500 watt unit I have on one of my computers and see what happens. Or better yet, maybe I should buy a new one so if it blows up I can take it back to CompUSA the next day. ;)

Anyway, thanks.
 
I am in the same boat with Rich oin these new a/c units not powering back up.We have an electrican at work and I have him trying to firgure out if we cant go around that part of the unit that prevents it from powering back up.I thought I was doing myself some good getting a Digital a/c unit..lol..I wish I would have bought one without all the bells and whistles..If I find out anything I will let ya'll know.
 
I guess the days of just throwing out those old ones and buying a brand new one are over. Going to have to start thinking about getting those cheap A/Cs fixed now so we can hand onto them.

Wonder who the heck the bright bulb was that thought of this new design? First time somebody comes home and finds Fluffy dead on the floor from heat because the power failed and the A/C didn't come back on all weekend is going to be REALLY upset.

Wanna bet when I call them they are going to tell me I am the first person to EVER complain about that?
 
Although the A/C unit I bought was labeled "Maytag", when I called their customer service number, I found myself talking to a Fedders representative. Apparently ALL new electronic units have this feature where they will NOT start back up when power is interrupted. This is just great.
 
That sux

I had one unit that was only 6 months old crash and they wanted to keep it for weeks to repair so I had to buy another one..lol..And it was a fedders brand unit.But they finaly got it repaired under waranty and it only took them nearly two months.So it looks like we maybe SOL on the timed delay on the power outage part.Looks like we may need to be looking at rounding up all the old ones we can and have them repaired. Gotta love the computer age..
 
Yeah, I opened up this new electronic unit and took a look. No wonder the manufacturers are all going to them. Made in China. EVERYTHING is on this little circuit board. Probably they are making a killing on markup on those things. Just a circuit board, sensor going to the front coils to detect incoming air temperature, and a cable going back to the power distribution area. No switches, options, or anything that can be modified.

I called everywhere I could think of, and the news is just bad. No one has a solution for bypassing the circuitry to make these things come back on after a power outage. I called the guys who put in my generator and they said the same thing. I called APC, the guys who make the UPS systems for computers and such and had a long talk with one of the techs. For a unit like mine pulling 12amps at full load (which is more like 2 amps during actual running time) a 1500 UPS battery might do the trick. The battery only has to keep the A/C running for 20 seconds while the generator is starting up and coming up to full power. So more than likely, the A/C will be operating normally when the battery pack takes over the load and only has to sustain that until the generator takes over. Worst case is if the A/C is idling and kicks the compressor on during that 20 second interval when it is running on battery. Yeah, I know, Murphy's Law...... But even though, the battery should be able to handle it.

The guy says a sine wave battery pack is better because it is more efficient and will generate less heat during operation than a stepped sine wave will, but in my application, it will really make no difference.

Heck the unit comes with a remote. Like you REALLY need a remote for an A/C unit..... They should have put that money into circuitry that would retain the settings when power fizzles out. Maybe I can jury rig something you see in cartoons where the power going out will set some ball rolling, and 30 seconds later will drop on the ON button of the remote to turn the A/C on after the generator has kicked in. Or a solenoid on a capacitor that discharges after a time delay.

Sheesh, getting some wierd ideas.....

But we do need to be thinking about a solution for those of us using portable A/C window units. Otherwise we have to go the route of getting a fixed unit installed in our buildings. But I wonder if those newer models will have the same problem, even in house units?

Some people are going to have an unpleasant surprise when they come home from that long weekend jaunt and find Fluffy dead on the carpet from heat stroke. Or a fish tank full of dead overheated tropical fish. Or a snake room full of bloated snakes.

Not good.....

I'll be picking up a battery pack tomorrow.....
 
I hear ya on the rigging..lol..And folks wonder why I dont want to leave for a nice weekend away during the summer.Hell I come home for lunch everyday to make sure the a/c units are still running.Out in the country were we live the electirc is bad about flickering during the very hot months and then the a/c is out till someone turns it back on.And that is scary when you have heat tape that comes back on and the room temp on the rise.Plus it doesnt seem to take much to get the rats and mice hot and nasty.And yes the remote dill just blows me away also all three of the new units I got come with a remote..lol..

The guy that fixed my other winder unit said none of the newer models are made worth a damn nothing like the old ones.He said they are getting to be just about throw away units.I have been kicking myself in the arse for throwing my old unit away it just needed some TLC but I thought I was doing my critters a favor for updating..Looks like I was wrong.

But like you said when someone comes home and finds Fluffy or a tank full of dead fish they might make some changes..lol..
 
Well today we went out and scoured some of the discount appliance stores and found a stock of old manual style A/C units. Even had them at discount prices. Picked up a 11,600 BTU Whirlpool for $225 and will probably go back next week to pick up another one to store in the shed. Maybe I should pick up several more of them....

Cost me about the same for the A/C as the battery pack would cost, so there is no need for me to try the experiment. Yet....
Taking that electronic unit back where I got it tomorrow or so.
 
The way it looks you better pick of a few to have as spares since they are no longer being made..lol..I am gonna have to do the samething see if I can round up some like that and buy several extras to make sure I have plenty fer a longtime..Plus they clam the older manual style units have alot more life to them and can be repaired and not considered a throw away unit like the new ones.
 
Hey just a FYI ...

I just installed a AC in my shop and its a electronic with remote ... lol im lazy like that .Its a whirlpool model .Well heres something interesting my shop is powerd by a cable off of my house so i siconnect it when cutting grass lol .Well the AC was on today as it was HOOOOT here after unplugging it to cut grass and plugging it back in i thought to check as i havent ever checked it untill this thread .Well the AC came on soon as i plugged it in to the panel meaning atleast this whirlpoo model isnt affected by power outages and will restart itself . just thought that you might like to know that its a small unit just in the office side with snakes and PC the shop and rats get fans but none theless this whirlpool model isnt affected by power loss .
 
That is good news! Maybe all of the A/C manufacturers haven't lost their minds. Heck nowadays even el cheapo clocks will hold the time for a short period when power is interrupted. I bought an air cleaner made by Hunter where the earlier models would shut off and not come back on when power was interrupted, yet the new model starts right back up when power is restored.

Those A/C manufacturers are taking a huge step backwards! Probably just a matter of time before word gets back to the boneheaded designers about their error in judgement. I'm certainly going to give them my two cents.

But yes, I am going to contact Whirlpool and see what they say about the situation.

Thanks for the tip!
 
Good news from Whirlpool!!

Our newest line of DesignerStyle™ Whirlpool® Air Conditioners brings with it all the convenience of the 21st century with their new electronic controls. These electronic controls give you complete control over your air conditioner with the push of a button, from digital temperature setting to programming your air conditioner when to turn on and off, these air conditioners have it all. They even come with a remote control so that you can operate them from across the room or from your easy chair.

The Whirlpool air conditioner electronic control air conditioners will turn back on at the setting that it is set at, once power is restored.
Click to expand...

Well, at least I won't have to pack the storage shed with manual style air conditioners like I thought I was going to have to do!
 
hey guys, i am a hvac tech here in va. i was just scanning some posts and read these. i'm not too familiar with the new window units, i mainly work on residental and light commercial systems.
it may be possible to bypass the circuit boards in these units.
the easiet way would be to use a line voltage (120v or 240 v) thermostat
to control a contactor with the same coil rating as the thermostat.
the wires going to the fan motor and compressor would come from the contactor hard wired. the correct capacitor for the fan motor and compressor may be needed. bypassing the circuit board will also bypass the safeties. most compressors have an internal bypass also. you could use a ranco or johnson control type thermostat with the remote bulb in front of the coil. there are other ways to do this but i think a line voltage thermostat
and a contactor will be the most bang for the buck.
hope this might help!

vaughn adams
 
WebSlave said:
Well, at least I won't have to pack the storage shed with manual style air conditioners like I thought I was going to have to do!
Click to expand...

Hi, I need to buy two new air conditioning wall units. My last great old analog unit is finally going after 15 years of service. Are these Whirlpools still the ones to go with, because they will retain their setting and come back on after a power failure? How did yours work out? Thank you.
 
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