Rainwater: New Scam

[Tacticalmaniac]

This is nuts

This entire situation makes me glad to be broke most the time (4 kids).... lol

 

[rufis4president]

I did a project on ball pythons in one of my classes and I recognize about 5 of those pictures from searching "ball pythons" on google's image search.

 

[Ken Foose]

Mario, with people like you....

Tim will not have a hard time coming back at all. Good golly, what more do you need Mario? Why don't you just go be buddies, and when he rips you off, you can come here and tell us all about it. That's right, Tims favorite targets are his friends. He makes friends with you, does some wheeling and dealing with you, and stabs you in the back. Keep in mind, I never got ripped off by Tim. Oh, he tried, but he was found out and stopped before any damage could be done. Of course if you talk to Tim, I'm the devil incarnate, and it was I who ripped him off. I'll just let track records take care of that subject. All I can really do is speak from my own experiences with Tim. I can't even relate to the people he stole from or conned, I was not there then. But I can still remember when he opened his store here in Vegas. All the fanfair, all the wooptydoo. And then some of my regular customers stopped coming in. I found out through the grape vine that some of them now had a very, very low opinion of me. Seems I was a crook, and my animals sucked. I was a bit confused, as these same people visited my store almost weekly, if not daily. Then one day, one of my long lost customers reappeared. Seems that Tim had ripped them off, and back to me they came. I was given the full picture then. Tim, in his smooth talking way, had somehow convinced a lot of people that I was a low life scum and so were my animals. Beats me how he does that, I always thought of myself as a likealbe fellow. Anyway, day by day, one by one, my customers that had gone to the Rainwater camp came back to me, all with the same stories. Lot of "I'm sorry", and such. He just kept ripping them off until all his local customers were gone, and I had more then I actually started with. And just to make a point, I had no problem with Tim openning a store here. The first month he was open, my business increased about 30%. Thanks Tim. Anyway, back to the point: how many people does he have to lie, steal, cheat and plain old rip off before everyone sees the light? Mario, if you are that dumb, I'm very sorry for you.

And in response to the phone call on the above post, of course it is Tim answering the phone. I told you before there are no business investors. It's Tim playing his games again. I have now posted more on this thread then any other ever. I'm sorry. But I just can't sit here and watch as Tim makes another run at the brass ring. I will keep relating more information if and when I deem it needed to stop him. Kim would say I have issues lol. Take care


__________________

 

[Steve Plath]

When I lived in Vegas, during the 90's, I remember when Tim opened his first shop. As Ken said...lots of fluff with his Grand Opening. A lot of us 'customers' were impressed with Tim's set-up, the newness of it all and I frequented the place a lot. Fortunately, the only animal I purchased there was a CB (not!) ball python. Even for the average-herper-kinda-guy like myself though, everything Tim was doing just seemed to good to be true. Unlike Ken's situation, where he built his business up bit by bit, Tim had it 'all' at once. Tim continously talked about his 'investors' and all the money they were pouring in to his place, which seemd crass to me talking about things like that with his customers. I had a simple incident at Tim's place over some store credit for a snake I had traded and decided to listen to my 'gut' after that...and happily went back to Exotic Pets. I didn't fall for the negative garbage discussed about Ken (I have my own opinions about Mr. Foose...and they're all pretty good Ken!!! ). At any rate, the odd opening of Tim's second store, the 'break-in' and insurance scam, etc. made me glad I listened to the little voice inside that said, 'watch out!'.

...oh, and Ken! I wish we had a store like yours (and a group like SNHS) over here in the Sacramento area. If fate decides to smile on me in the near future I may be back in Vegas before long...just a roll of the dice on a new job opportunity!

 

[Ken Foose]

Steve...

Thank you very much for the kind words. Tims store sure was pretty, I have to admit that much. My store looks like someones basement. But is sure is a nice basement lol. You know, you're not far from East Bay Vivarium, and that's a pretty darn nice store. And I'm not sure how active they are anymore, but the Northern California Herp Society was a great group when I lived in Reno. I used to drive over to thier meetings every month at UC Davis. Anyway, I'm glad to hear from you again, stop by when you are in my neck of the cactus sometime. I'm glad to hear you did not succumb to Tims party line, and that he did not take you for too much. Take care

 

[Axe]

Question: If there is no trademark notice on a picture is it still protected?

Yes, it's still protected. Copyrighted images that are bought and used for pamphlets, literature (advertisements in Reptiles Magazine for example), or indeed websites, do usually not display copyright information, but they are still copyrighted.

When you purchase a copyrighted image for re-use in such a way, it's like buying software. You don't own the software, you have no rights to resell it, you are simply paying for a license/permission to use it in the manner arranged between yourself and the copyright holder.

So, just because a picture isn't labelled as being copyrighted, it is. Whoever took the photograph owns the copyright usually (unless prior arrangements have been made, such as a photographer taking exclusive photographs for a client, and pre-signing over any copyright to that client before the photographs have been taken).

In a court of law, whoever can prove the earliest date of ownership on a photograph is the legal copyright holder from what I've read.

 

[Axe]

Somebody already gave an accurate answer in regards to copyright a few pages back, but I want to clarify this: According to the Berne convention, you do not have to do anything whatsoever to establish a copyright. A work is copyrighted from the time of its creation. Mailing materials to yourself doesn't establish copyright.

Mailing the materials to yourself does not establish copyright. As you said, copyright is created at the time the work is created. However, an official government datestamp on a mailed envelope does establish a DATE for the copyright - which goes a long way in a court of law towards proving who had the image first.

Example. I take an Image on Jan 1st 2000. on Jan 2nd 2000, I put that photograph, or a CD containing that image (if it was a digital camera), in an envelope & mail it to myself. It turns up in my mailbox on Jan 4th. I stick it in a filing cabinet and forget about it. Then in mid 2001, I see my photo on somebody else's website. I inform them that the image is copyrighted and to take the image down. They refuse, I tell my attorney to contact them. They claim the image is theirs and they own the copyright. We go to court, I open the envelope in front of the judge (with a USPS datestamp on it proving when I had this image). Unless they can prove that they had the image earlier, which is going to be near impossible without greasing a few palms with silver or they have a time machine, I win.

So, mailing it doesn't prove copyright, but it can prove the DATE of ownership when somebody else claims the image is theirs and that they own the copyright.

 

[Axe]

Ok so maybe I should read ALL the posts before adding to the thread, heh.

So maybe it's not got a legal leg to stand on in most of the US, but it has been known to win a lot of copyright cases in the UK.

 

[Steve Plath]

Ken...

Oh yeah, EBV is a dangerous place...can't seem to go there without dragging something home!:laugh: So I try to limit those trips to the Bay Area. The folks at NCHS are fine, but attendance to meetings is poor. Just not the same kinda characters as SNHS, and I miss the raffles there!

I thought that I heard Tim had left Vegas (obviously in error). Of course what better place for a con-man to be. Still, I find it unbelievable that he'd try to start up a scam like this in the same place, using his same name, etc. (i.e., what do they say about criminals returning to the scene of the crime?). Can he possibly think that the herp community wouldn't get wind of this and react...or does he really just not give a cow flop? The guy's got some big brass monkeys, is all I can say! Ego is so wasted on the vane!!!

 

[Clay Davenport]

Example. I take an Image on Jan 1st 2000. on Jan 2nd 2000, I put that photograph, or a CD containing that image (if it was a digital camera), in an envelope & mail it to myself. It turns up in my mailbox on Jan 4th.

Or, I take an empty envelope, mail it to myself, then two years later I take something and seal it inside and claim I mailed it two years earlier.
This is the problem with the postmark, all it proves is that envelope was mailed, it can't prove anything was inside.

However, by putting the pictures on CD you already have them dated, so mailing them or anything else isn't necessary. Right click a picture and select properties. It will have a file created date listed. With this information, I would think a court would indeed accept that as evidence of ownership.
With non digital photos, you can always keep the negatives.
It's safe to assume the person in possesion of negatives took the photos in such a case.

 

[Axe]

However, by putting the pictures on CD you already have them dated, so mailing them or anything else isn't necessary. Right click a picture and select properties. It will have a file created date listed. With this information, I would think a court would indeed accept that as evidence of ownership.
With non digital photos, you can always keep the negatives.
It's safe to assume the person in possesion of negatives took the photos in such a case.

Yeah, but that can be faked..

Stick your system clock back 5 years, load the image in photoshop, save it back out, burn it, put u'r system clock back, and there you go, your CD's 5 years old.

 

[Clay Davenport]

I never really thought about where that date came from, but that's right.
You could always print out your pictures and have them notarized I suppose

 

[Ken Foose]

Rainwater never left Vegas. He was never arrested as far as I can tell. He just started selling insurance instead. I know that his second to last partner donated about $50,000 to the cause, and he then watched as it was all drained to nothing and lost. This was about the same time that Tim bought a bunch of Bengal Monitors and had them brought into the state without any paperwork. He quickly sold them off to some foolish customers that bought the line Tim told them about no paperwork being needed. Of course the USFWS came knocking on Tims door, and took the few Bengals he had left. They then tracked down the buyers of the others, and took them too. Of course none of them ever got thier money back. And of course, for those who wonder...that $7,000 sign that I got for $50 was a huge blown up photo of Max, the gecko Tim claimed to have bred as the very first albino leopard gecko. As I said before, it was never cb, but was imported. Anyway, the famous Max, who should have lived to a very ripe old age, died at Tims store. Did it die of bone disease? Old age? Some horrible virus? Nope. It died from dehydration. No one bothered to water it. It just sat there and dried up. Most of Tims geckos died that way. The ones that could be saved were removed and brought to me and others. Some were saved, most were not. Seems that animal neglect was another Rainwater trademark. Had a guy bring me in a little bitty banded snake one day. He wanted to know what it was. I stared at it, and finally came to the realization that I was looking at a hatchling Tri-color Hognose snake. When I asked him where he got it, he simply smiled and told me he found it in the parking lot in front of Rainwater Reptiles, crawling in some decorative rock by the handicap zone. I offered to buy it, but he declined. Then he smiled and said "Merry Xmas", put it in my hand, and walked out the door. I gave him a deal the next time he bought something from me for sure! I have always wondered how many other really cool animals are in that shrubbery at that shopping center. If you go to the place now, you can even still see some of the sign Tim paid so much for still on the wall. A tile flooring company moved into the place, removed all the letters but "Tiles" from Rainwater Reptiles, and added a few more letters to the front. I might even buy some tiles from them someday if I ever need them. Vegas is a fun place to live for sure. Take care

 

[Ken Foose]

I was asked to pass this on to Rainwater and anyone else that needs it

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OK. The joke's over. Nothing more to see here.

The J-Walk Blog
More Humor

 

[Intense Herpetoculture]

Ahh, now why did you go do that Ken? Letting Rainwater on such a sound proof investment?

 

[agbull100]

Dishwater

Would someone please refer Tim to the following conference and get him out of the herp business? I see Ken beat me to the punch. Check the original here:

http://j-walk.com/other/conf/index.htm

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

Out of curiosity, has anyone forwarded a link to this thread to Mr. Rainwater? His response should, at the very least, be entertaining

 

[geckosunlimited]

Dishwater!

That's a good one. A few people have mentioned that he has some "balls" to do this. I think stupidity would be a better word choice.

 

[Ken Foose]

Bill, thanks for adding the link, much more effective there. I laughed all night at that ad. I see I have to get a ticket to Nigeria now, just for the food! As far as Tim seeing this thread, I have no idea if anyone has told him about it or not. I really doubt if he would ever post here, but it would be funny. Can you just imagine the response? I bet Bill could tell us all kinds of Rainwater stories also, but I'll leave that up to him. I have about 200 more myself, but I think the point has been made. I just did not want to see anyone go through what others have had to endure because of him in the past. Take care