Randall Ellis, Reptile Locators (BAD GUY)

[thomas davis]

ok

now im undermining the boi ok griz if you say so i guess it must be so. lets just write it off as fake emails and because the OP is in africa well they must be scammers anyway...yeah thats the boi way... NOT, where you been? or better yet wheres randell?,,,,,,,,thomas

 

[Otter_23]

For the love of God Thomas. How do you know those emails to be true? How do YOU know he did not pay for these animals? You have absolutely nothing to go by yet you are jumping to conclusions. If you cannot comprehend that then there's nothing left here for me to say. Your undermining this boards ability to seek and find justice. That's one of the biggest travesties here.

Griz

Come on Griz. Randy needs to answer to these accusations. I know it has only been a little while but I think stating "Randy you should take care of this" isn't throwing him under the bus. To insuate that because it is an African exporter and he is from an area of known scammers that he is possibly one as well is just as unfair as it is to find Randy guilty right away isn't it? He posted emails and hasn't that been an acceptable form of proof or has that changed? Isn't that what we always hear on the BOI (post the emails)? If they can be so easily faked why have we ever accepted them? Point being is Randy does need to clear this up. We need to give him time to respond. I think at this point a valid complaint has been brought up and backed up with emails if they are false then Randy needs to address it. No offense but it seems to me you have already made up your mind even without Randy posting.

 

[Jim O]

I agree with many of the others, Bob. This looks bad for Randy. The emails looks and sound legitimate to me. Randy has apparently been selling the animals in question, and he has not responded here despite being a member of this site.

Having said that, I haven't fully made up my mind as we haven't heard the other side, but the facts so far presented, and so far not refuted in any way, are unfavorable to Randy, to say the least.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Maria, could you post the manifest for the animals shipped?

 

[Griz]

JimO, what was being said countless times was this......"Randall pay the guy." It was not Randall, come here and clear this up and let us know your side of the story. It was assume his guilt without any real concrete proof. I, for one, and I know there are countless others, are no longer going to be nearly as apt to believe a string of emails unless there is other proof to go along with it. Had this been a week since the original post then yes, I would start lending some credibility to the original poster. But, less than 24 hours have elapsed and no, the original posters emails are not nearly enough for me to assign guilt, as of yet. While I agree that the original poster has made the very beginnings of a case here it is not enough for any intelligent individual to automatically tell Randall to "pay the man." You and I both know that.

Lawson, with all due respect, your word and thoughts mean absolutely nothing to most of us here. You have proven yourself to be less then trustworthy and as such your opinion is in the "red" for most of us. While that shouldn't (and won't) stop you from posting, you have to understand that information you provide will be taken with a grain of salt.

Griz

 

[Griz]

Come on Griz. Randy needs to answer to these accusations. I know it has only been a little while but I think stating "Randy you should take care of this" isn't throwing him under the bus.

Mark, go back and read the posts. It was not come here and explain yourself.

Mark, honestly ask yourself that question. If you had a person from Africa approach you about reptile dealings then you would not assign a certain amount of skepticism to them? We all know that answer.

He posted emails and hasn't that been an acceptable form of proof or has that changed? Isn't that what we always hear on the BOI (post the emails)? If they can be so easily faked why have we ever accepted them?

For some. But, not with me. Emails are certainly a start and if Randall does not come here to defend himself then those same emails can be judge/jury for him in the end, but not in the beginning.

Point being is Randy does need to clear this up. We need to give him time to respond. I think at this point a valid complaint has been brought up and backed up with emails if they are false then Randy needs to address it. No offense but it seems to me you have already made up your mind even without Randy posting.

Then you have not read my posts accurately. I don't know Randall. I know nothing about him. But, all I have said all along is to wait for additional proof before telling someone to "pay the man." It's too early in the ballgame to jump the gun as some are so prone to do.

Randall absolutely needs to clear this up. He needs to provide proof that he did in fact pay for this. The originator needs to provide at least a manifest showing what was sent and for how much. There is a lot of information still missing before anyone can take much of a stance.

Griz

 

[Wilomn]

I'd like two grains if you please, he's REALLY not trustworthy, lawson I mean.

 

[Phobos]

Randall:

This is crap! You need to fix this problem, NOW! How are we to every find a exporter that we can trust in Africa when you are doing this sort of CRAP to them? You not only are effecting your standing in the hobby but taking everybody else with you. Pay up Randall!

Al Coritz
Deadly Beautiful Zoological, LLC
www.deadlybeatuiful.com

 

[Griz]

Let me illustrate.....

Randall:

This is crap! You need to fix this problem, NOW! How are we to every find a exporter that we can trust in Africa when you are doing this sort of CRAP to them? You not only are effecting your standing in the hobby but taking everybody else with you. Pay up Randall!

Al Coritz
Deadly Beautiful Zoological, LLC
www.deadlybeatuiful.com

You have sold the animals that is a fact now send this man that trusted you his money. Things like this Randy make it hard for other importers to get animals in.

randall pay these people. i am completely floored with the honesty factor here 10+K in animals upfront???and you cant/wont/havnt paid them thats really sad, its ironic randall mentions the boi to this person and then treats them like this you really need to fix this randall,,,,,,,,
thomas davis

All of this with virtually no proof of any kind. Need I say more?

Griz

 

[kmurphy]

I'm not sure what additional proof African Animals could provide. Dennis asked for the manifest, which would be useful in comparing recent ads by Reptile Locators, and the animals shipped. However, if you're of the mind set that African Animals forged the emails then they could have doctored the manifest also, to correspond with Randy's ads.

They sound trustworthy to me and the emails look legitimate. They did try to post this a week ago but their thread was shut down due to incorrect posting. If they were in some type of battle with Reptile Locators, it seems to me Randy would have spoken up then, even though he wasn't named in that thread. I am sure he knew it was about his company. It doesn't seem likely that AA just pulled his name out of a hat, and decided to pick on Randy.

 

[Dave Lawson]

Griz, It is more like some not most and I want you to imagine how like that means to me. I am not wanting to change the topic here.

Randall was a good man once upon a time but that started to change awhile back some people just did notwant to see it now it is slapping you in the face and it is hard to swallow. This is not the first time Randall has done this but it maybe the last. I know that Randall is aware of this thread he has read it but he has not posted. I do find that it is funny that e-mails are good enough is some threads and here it is not, why? In most threads there is not even e-mails but nothing more then someone word and the pose is out with thier ropes, here there is more then enough proof but all the sudden e-mails are no longer proof.

 

[Griz]

Wrong again David. Emails are the GOSPEL for some people, just not me or many other well respected individuals on this board. I see posted emails as being the catalyst. The majority of the time they prove to be legit but take a look at all of the people who have come on here and claimed the other person doctored the emails. In this day and age, all we have is common sense to go off of.

I highly doubt that AA forged the emails. However, I know nothing about either party and until adequate time has elapsed and/or Randall comes on here in defense, I am not going to jump the gun. By the same token, hopefully some of you will use your heads and realize that it's too early to make conclusions. You've assessed the situation and you have convicted him based upon an AFRICAN importer, from a known scam infested country, in a scam infested occupation, with no real credentials (that I could find anyways) claiming that they were scammed by Randall while providing nothing more than a copy/paste of emails that may or may not be true.

Sorry if I am a bit skeptical of the entire situation. Sorry if my mind tells me there might be more to this story. Sorry if some of you get offended by rationalization taking the front seat instead of being thrown out the window.

Give it a week and if Randall remains silent then start assigning guilt. Until then, wait. Like Shrap says, a silent mouth gathers no foot. He might be guilty as Hell but we don't know that yet. Do we?

Griz

 

[africananimals]

Dear All, of course we have all the documents proving the existance of the shipment and there are no problems publishing them. We just considered it will be correct to wait and see what Randall will say?!

Maria

 

[Dave Lawson]

Point taken

So we will give it some time to be completely fair.

But when and if the exporter post proof positive on the shipment nothing Randy says will save him, currect?

 

[Dave Lawson]

I would like for David and Maria (exporters) to post all the documents now and not wait.

 

[Griz]

Point taken

So we will give it some time to be completely fair.

But when and if the exporter post proof positive on the shipment nothing Randy says will save him, currect?

Not necessarily. Just let it play out and see what happens.

Griz

 

[John E Dove]

I think now is the time.

Dear All, of course we have all the documents proving the existance of the shipment and there are no problems publishing them. We just considered it will be correct to wait and see what Randall will say?!

Maria

Maria,
I believe that publishing as soon as possible any documents you have proving the shipment of the animals, receipt of the animals in the US and listing what was shipped at what value, would be prudent.
As I am sure you have read there is a great deal of confusion on our side of the pond and those documents would be a great help in clearing up matters.

John E Dove

 

[Chameleon Company]

I dunno Bob,

I highly doubt that AA forged the emails. However, I know nothing about either party and until adequate time has elapsed and/or Randall comes on here in defense, I am not going to jump the gun. By the same token, hopefully some of you will use your heads and realize that it's too early to make conclusions. You've assessed the situation and you have convicted him based upon an AFRICAN importer, from a known scam infested country, in a scam infested occupation, with no real credentials (that I could find anyways) claiming that they were scammed by Randall while providing nothing more than a copy/paste of emails that may or may not be true.

I can understand your wanting to not make assumptions, and imploring others to think likewise. But AA came here like any other complainant, and the BOI has never been about some kind of waiting period. While you first say that you doubt that the emails are frauds, with what I highlighted above, you waste some efforts making the argument that what AA has presented needs to be viewed with caution due to all the possible scam scenarios known from Africa, etc. So I thought it through, and if all that mattered, I still have a hard time with a reasonable MO as to how this situation gets them money not owed, as in a scam. Not a very effective way to extort money either, which is the only "scam" I can see coming from such as this. Use your imagination any which way you want, but its hard to validate anything except AA feeling they are owed money, with a good first presentation of evidence. Barring proof otherwise, I would say that until Randall shows different, there is no reason to doubt what is on the table. You are certainly welcome to your doubts where you have them, but by the same measure, others are just as welcome to have less doubt than you regarding these issues.

Play out ? No, its in play now. Randall has had 24 hours to address this if there was a lack of merit. There's nothing stopping him from posting here or contacting others who can if that is a problem. Looks to me not only like he should have been here in the last 24 hours, but maybe should have started fixing this many moons ago, to hell with the last 24 hours.

 

[Griz]

Understood Jim, and I, like you, don't know what ulterior motives starting a thread like this could be. However, there may be more information not presented that could change things. How many times does a thread turn directions due to new information? Countless.

There could be a whole host of reasons why Randall has not been here as of yet. I got laid up at the hospital a few weeks ago for 6 days without internet access. My point being, give it time. At this early stage of the game I see no reason for people to jump to conclusions and start berating someone when only one side is known. If Randall refuses to state his side then by all means, jump on the wagon. But, until then, I am not so easily swayed one way or another.

Griz

 

[Chameleon Company]

I can't disagree .... but !

I got laid up at the hospital a few weeks ago for 6 days without internet access. My point being, give it time. At this early stage of the game I see no reason for people to jump to conclusions and start berating someone when only one side is known. If Randall refuses to state his side then by all means, jump on the wagon. But, until then, I am not so easily swayed one way or another.

Hope all is well now. I don't think you are setting the bar at six days, that being the amount of time you were away from a computer ... , and concurrently, the logic of waiting to see what Randall might say is to wait how long ?? Just a rhetorical question.

If AA came here with no evidence, and some poorly made claim, we would expect more doubt. For some, me included, I have no trouble seeing people make posts unflattering to Randall based on what has been presented so far. How unflattering ? I don't really care. I am inclined to invite others to post here negatively at this point, as we not only have the well-presented info from AA, to include emails from Randall, but also independent confirmation from stateside folks regarding the sale of some of the animals. AA is hoping to use the BOI to turn up some heat, as many utilize it. Unfortunately, with amounts this large and the claim that no efforts have been made to make even a partial payment, its likely beyond whatever good 500 negative posts here could do to get AA their money, whether the posts started yesterday or six days from now. In the least, maybe someone considering extending credit to Randall will see this and save some bucks. With all, I do have to respect your urging restraint, just as I respect others being less doubtful.

Hate to say it, but maybe the only gain for AA of Randall coming here and validating AA's claim would be to at least provide reference to others that AA may be more legitimate than many other African Exporters, and worthy the risk of a 50% down transaction.