Randall Ellis, Reptile Locators (BAD GUY)

[LadyViper]

I still have to ask the question

What type of reputation does this exporter Have?? Before I pass judgement, how do we know this is on the up and up? The BIO is a great way to get free advertising.

Even that guy out in copperas cove said he prefers to keep his BIO going because of the great advertising ( I read that in one of his posts, please don't make me track that down)

It just seems like people are so quick to judge. I have a hard time taking the word of some of the known to be scammer exporters, not to say Africian Animals isn't on the up and up.

I am pretty sure it's not hard to chop up emails and edit them, again not saying thats what happened, But It makes me think twice because of all the bad ones.

 

[ViperPaintball]

How long do you have to keep a Naja improperly for it to have six retained eyecaps and be dry and crackly? As I said...I haven't ever heard of that happening to that extent in the wild.

If they caught them and shipped them that's one thing. If they caught them and sat on them for months while they withered and dried out....

Aw...nevermind. Beat him. I was just offering FACTS on the only part I ACTUALLY KNEW about. I haven't seen many facts from everyone else on this...just screams of "Get a rope!"

Guess I'm not much for mob mentality.

Sorry I distorted the fun with any factual info. I'm also sorry I expect exporters to take care of their stock, and ship quality specimens.

I never said that (if all of this is indeed true) he was in the right and shouldn't pay them.

But nevermind me...on with the beatings!

 

[Intense Herpetoculture]

I would request grade A animals with the prices AA charges. I can get animals about 1/2 the cost from other exporters in the area for the same quality. Do I know they sent bad animals, no, but I do think Randalls story has SOME truth to it.

Kerry I have to wonder did you think Randall was expecting Captive bred animals?? I know it sucks but some do come in in real rough shape and even dead. But your talking about one animal out 10 grand worth of imports which for that much money you can get a whole lot of them. So one with retained eyecaps isn't much when you think about it...Randy

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

Are we reading different threads guys? Randall verified every single aspect of their story. He did not refute a bit of it.

He stated he got the animals So did they

He stated they gave hime a discount based on the comdition of some of the animals. So did they

He admitted that he reneged on the immediate 30% payment and has not sent them a dime.

You aren't grasping at straws. You are grasping at thin air. I hate to see someone with a pretty good reputation in the business cause a thread like this to happen as much as the next breeder but...

...the OP stated their case and Randall verified it.....period.

 

[ViperPaintball]

John, I don't think that anyone has stated that Randy shouldn't pay them.

All some of us are doing is stating that it may be a bit early to recommend AA for sainthood. That Naja looked like crap. If many of the rest looked that bad then they would be hard to move. He was willing to get it to me for FREE due to how badly it looked...as opposed to just killing it or letting it die as some less-ethical importers do. He wanted to see it taken care of. How about some kudos for that. Do you all really believe that every importer cares for every animal they get as if it were their own, beloved pet?

It seems very troll-like how everyone jumps in and wants to whack the "bad guy" with their stick. There have only been a couple of people who had any sort of factual input based upon firsthand knowledge. There are over fifty-three posts to this in two days! FIFTY-THREE! About ten percent of those are people who have been around during this. The rest seem to just be people who just want to get a workout for their beating arm. None of you have spoken to AA. None of you have spoken to Randy. None of you were there when he opened the boxes. Only a couple have seen any of the shipment.

Now...how many of you have been contacted by Mr. Zuli Balabambulu from Africa who wants to share a million bucks with you if you just send him ten thousand? Or Dr. Whats-his-name who has moved there and has to sell his pedigreed (insert show-dog breed here) and just wants you to send him enough money to cover shipping it to you? I haven't had a beer with Maria or her old man...have you?

Now, here is a list of reputable people who claim Randy is a good guy:
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58841
Apparently he isn't Satan.

All I've been saying is that this was just posted yesterday, and a whole s**tload of people who are working on hearsay and grudges are all jumping in and beating him...and to what end? And you are all assuming (remember that whole ass-u-me proverb) that AA is a fine, upstanding company that would present nothing but the facts.

Yeah...I know...Randy confirmed much of it.

Then let him handle it. Don't jump on like a bunch of rabid, wet hens and beat him for the sheer joy of it. That's just messed up.

I'd rather rag on Austin Stevens than someone whom, at least some folks I know think, is a good guy. We all get in jams. He's in one, and he has stated intentions of taking care of it. Unless he plans to leave the planet he will pretty much have to at some point, right?

 

[ViperPaintball]

This is the BOI, not a place to judge someone you have no interest in doing business with! I don't see why anyone but Randall and A A are doing the talking here. This is why the BOI is becoming more of a joke to the outside world. The quality of this site is going sharply downhill and there is no end to it.

Is anyone reading this a "research junkie" who enjoys assembling facts and figures?

I wonder, if you did a search for posts from each of the major bashers, how many times you would find them jumping in with every lynch mob as soon as it starts assembling, swinging their big “you better fix this!” club?

That is what causes things like this B.O.I. forum to become less credible. Because every time there is a complaint you get three or four people with pertinent input, and a dozen who just enjoy the thrill of being involved in a good beating.

I agree with Justyn and, with this, I'll probably bow out.

Let those involved handle it. Watch...listen...learn...make note...but just jumping in out of bloodlust doesn't help the viability of this type of forum.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Never mentioned in its mission statement.

I fail to recall a time that the BOI was ever setup for only the opposing parties to take part in a thread. It was never designed that way. Rich has stated as much many times. The previous versions of this site in the archives support that and lend support that at times could be much harsher than we have seen here.

This is the BOI, not a place to judge someone you have no interest in doing business with! I don't see why anyone but Randall and A A are doing the talking here. This is why the BOI is becoming more of a joke to the outside world. The quality of this site is going sharply downhill and there is no end to it.

 

[Stardust]

This is the BOI, not a place to judge someone you have no interest in doing business with! I don't see why anyone but Randall and A A are doing the talking here. This is why the BOI is becoming more of a joke to the outside world. The quality of this site is going sharply downhill and there is no end to it.

In re-reading my post I used a poorly chosen word, "switch", I probably should have used "mixed up"
I have every right to be here and ask questions or ask for more info as you or anyone else, whether I buy from either of these people or not.

 

[ravensgait]

Kerry where are you getting all that from?? Randall's post pretty much confirmed all that AA said. You obviously know Randall and it is understandable that you want to look after someone you know.. But many of us here don't know either and have no axe to grind or friend to defend we just look at what both parties put on the table.. From what we have here Randall has broken his deal from the moment he received the animals. He was given discount and still hasn't paid the money he was supposed to on receipt of the animals nor has he paid the the balance, none of this seems to be disputed by Randall. His saying that they were subpar ETC ETC months after the fact just comes across as him trying to justify not having paid.

You base your defense of Randall on one snake with was it 6 retained eye caps? How long does it take an adult animal to retain that many a year maybe two?? I just don't see them having that animal for that long before shipping.

Three people have taken shots at the BOI in this thread as being a joke or what have you. Funny how the BOI seems to work and I do wonder if AA would have found their way here if Randall hadn't mentioned it.. Though he mentioned it more as a threat IE do right by me or get black balled.

Hey the BOI seems to work and is far tamer than it was a couple of years ago...Randy

 

[Wilomn]

Hey Randy, did he wait months to notify them that the condition of the snakes was not what he agreed to accept? I thought he said there were phone calls about that fairly quickly to which he was told that that was the way it goes with imports and THEN when he tried to pay, later than was originally agreed, he was told to pay all or nothing.

That's what I'm getting from this so far.

 

[Wilomn]

The above was to Randy the Mod.

 

[ravensgait]

Wes they gave him a discount because he wasn't happy with the condition but I don't see where that gets him out of,1-paying what he agreed to on the shipments arrival or 2 paying what he agreed to after the discount, seems he offered recently to pay them a grand and they said they wanted all their money.

Now one could do what many here do and read into AA comments about the grand but seems to me Randall as I pointed out above broke his agreement from the get go...Randy

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

Hey Randy, did he wait months to notify them that the condition of the snakes was not what he agreed to accept? I thought he said there were phone calls about that fairly quickly to which he was told that that was the way it goes with imports and THEN when he tried to pay, later than was originally agreed, he was told to pay all or nothing.

That's what I'm getting from this so far.

If that was all you got out of it Wes then I guess I have to adjust my opinion of you from simply egomaniacal and abrasive to include stupid and obtuse as well.

He contacted them within a week as to the condition of some of the animals and was given a substantial adjustment on price to make up for the sub par specimens.

He reneged on the original agreement to send 30% on receipt. That, to me means that he had no intention of sending it from day one.

He waited three months and until a BOI thread was posted to offer them anything at all.

Just because you have a problem with Randy M (as you do with virtually everyone who does not agree with you 100% of the time) is no reason to twist a clear cut situation to further your own agenda.

 

[kmurphy]

This is the BOI, not a place to judge someone you have no interest in doing business with! I don't see why anyone but Randall and A A are doing the talking here. This is why the BOI is becoming more of a joke to the outside world. The quality of this site is going sharply downhill and there is no end to it.

Justyn, why do you think people post on their problem deals on the BOI? So they can talk so more, and iron it out? They can do that with emails. AA posted on a public forum in an attempt to get some resolution. They expected it to be debated on the Board of Inquiry. Funny, a few posts later you were there with your 2 cents.

Aw...nevermind. Beat him. I was just offering FACTS on the only part I ACTUALLY KNEW about. I haven't seen many facts from everyone else on this...just screams of "Get a rope!"

Kerry, chill out man. Randall and AA negotiated for new terms based upon Randall's inspection of the shipment. No one disputed your post regarding the cobra so why the attitude? All Randy M. was saying was that there were still animals that needed to be paid for, and no payment was forthcoming.

You both can dump on the BOI --- it's a joke, mob mentality etc. etc. But when one of your deals go bad, and your out an animals, or a large sum of money, this is where you'll end up.

 

[IBsmokin]

As an experience importer of African Reptiles, I understand Randall's point of view of recieving poorly shaped animals. I have recieved shipments in the past from exporters with over 90% DOA's.

But professionally, what is supposed to be done in these situations, within 24 hours of recieving shipment, one should photograph every single DOA and poorly shaped animal, in the 80's and early 90's it was polaroids and fax machines, but today we can easily obtain 30 dollar digitals at walmart and send pics via emails.

Randell recieved alot of snakes, mostly hots, as a person familiar with Tanzania prices, his average price is around $40 per head. Now I am not sure what Randell exact DOA rate was because he did not specify on that but only to say he recieved poorly shaped animals and some died.

AA deducted over $2,000 off the original set price we all know this, even at $2000 that is room enough to deduct 50 snakes off the shipment. Now I seen photos of what just a small percentage of that 50 snakes. What have we heard of, 5 snakes that were in poorly shaped but yet, there was a deduction for over 50 snakes.

Some species like the house snakes Randall was charged only $10 to $20 per head for, you know those housesnakes that were being sold for $250 each.
But randell mostly recieved hots. And we know on average the cost is around $40, if we included shipping and taxes etc. etc. well then it would work out of be around $45 per head. Stilll room enough to deduct over 50 heads from the overall cost.

respectfully those at wholesale would be sold for $90 each where as a wholelsaler doubles his money. some whole salers prefer to triple their money, as a direct importer, Randell would be considered a wholesaler.

Now that you have your importing 101 course finished, lets get back to the facts.

If you recieve poorly conditioned animals, it is respectful and proper to photograph every one and send via email, because its only digital photos it is a matter of deleted them off you camera and startin all over again.

at $45 per head, I would take pics of everyone I felt was not worth $45 even if it was 200 snakes because at $45 per head thats 9 grand. I would have took the pics sent and then gave them what i percieve their value to be based on their survival rate and recovery rate.
this should have been done with in the first 48 hours of recieving the snakes, how long does it take to snap pics, down load, resize and send? if we are talkin about a matter of thousands of dollars, if I recieve DOA's I am not paying for them, if an animals dies within 48 hours of landing, to me that is a DOA because its death was attributed to conditions prior to coming to me.

If I recieve animals I will need to keep in my care for a while and bring up to par, I will pay only 50% of what that animal was original being sold to me for. I would have photgraphed and took note of the conditions, and from what I have heard of AA, if Randell had followed these proper proceedures they would have been in agreement, after all they agreed to pay for shipping when Randell said he could not afford it at the time.

The prices I wrote is the average based prices for all Tanzania Exporters. Some species are $10 per head while others are $90 per head and all points between which gives us the average of $40 because most importers get higher numbers of the $10 per head species.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Thanks for the Tanzanian imports 101 IBSmokin.

The debt is clear. I have a hard time surmising anything but stupidity for some of the posts made supporting Randall, to include suggestions that the emails presented by AA may have been cut-and-pasted after Randall has posted that their content is correct. As Mike, Kevin, and others have pointed out, this ain't rocket science, and yet several still struggle with it

I have no doubt that AA has kicked themselves many times now, as their decisions to trust Randall have all come back to haunt them. They went out on a limb by advancing all the animals, and then further when Randall couldn't pre-pay the freight. I think all here would wish for Randall to get things in order with his own business, pay what he owes, and not have this hanging over him. At this point, seems we have an African exporter who can complain to his fellow business associates that he has been scammed for $10K by a deadbeat American. And they are telling the truth.

 

[Griz]

John, you mentioned that Randall admitted to the reduced pricing being offered by Maria. Where did you see that? I saw no where in his post that he and Maria agreed to a reduced pricing. I do see where he stated he tried to work things out professionally with Maria but they told him tough luck, that this is the risk he takes. No where (that I could find) did he state that he agreed with their "credit."

If I received a very sub par shipment from anyone, importer or captive bred breeder, you had better believe that the time for renegotiation's has started. No way in Hell would I sit there and honor my agreement if they had not honored theirs by sending me quality animals. Randall did not break the agreement, AA did by sending inferior and incorrect animals. We have already had one person verify that the Cobra had not one but SIX retained eye caps. How can any person believe that this animal would qualify as a quality animal? That alone should give reasonable doubt as to the remainder of the shipment. If they are going to attempt to sneak one sub par animal in then why not more?

As is often the case, this is not going to be resolved here. This is between Randall and AA and only they know the extent that was agreed upon. To be able to sit back and state that anyone here has come to a evidence based conclusion is ridiculous. Let the two of them work it out. Randall has stated that some of the animals did fit the bill so Randall, pay for those immediately assuming that AA will take your money. They denied him the last time he attempted to make a partial payment so maybe they will have a change of heart this time.

Griz

 

[Griz]

The debt is clear. I have a hard time surmising anything but stupidity for some of the posts made supporting Randall

Trust me Jim, the stupidity is not limited to those that are not so naive as to believe completely AA's side of the story either. Maybe if Randall was an ex-porn king then you might see things differently?

Griz

 

[Chameleon Company]

Griz Griz Griz .....

As is often the case, this is not going to be resolved here. This is between Randall and AA and only they know the extent that was agreed upon. To be able to sit back and state that anyone here has come to a evidence based conclusion is ridiculous.

Evidence was presented by the prosecution, and the defense confirmed much of it directly, while not refuting other parts, and yet you want to say that evidence based conclusions are not in order ! Randall acknowledged the debt, offered no new numbers, claimed no error in calculations ..... maybe you sell Randall some animals on credit ?

And then this:

Trust me Jim, the stupidity is not limited to those that are not so naive as to believe completely AA's side of the story either. Maybe if Randall was an ex-porn king then you might see things differently?

While I saw nothing "stupid" in your earlier posts, you may now wear the dunce cap.

 

[Intense Herpetoculture]

Of course we are allowed to take part, what I am saying is the way the BOI is heading is sending the quality of site site down the drain, making it no longer useful. I remember the previous versions, certain threads got crazy, but it seems like lately every thread the same people jump on to "crack" the latest code. The truth is, real problems never seem to be solved this way.

I fail to recall a time that the BOI was ever setup for only the opposing parties to take part in a thread. It was never designed that way. Rich has stated as much many times. The previous versions of this site in the archives support that and lend support that at times could be much harsher than we have seen here.