Randall Ellis, Reptile Locators (BAD GUY)

[Intense Herpetoculture]

I think people post them on the BOI to put pressure on someone to do the right thing.

As for me joining in, I thought about that. I also thought that I was able to offer valuable knowledge to a pack of hungry wolves, to quiet them down a bit.

Justyn, why do you think people post on their problem deals on the BOI? So they can talk so more, and iron it out? They can do that with emails. AA posted on a public forum in an attempt to get some resolution. They expected it to be debated on the Board of Inquiry. Funny, a few posts later you were there with your 2 cents.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Justyn,

The truth is, real problems never seem to be solved this way.

This is true. However, that's not the purpose of the BOI. If this were a real court, might I point out that civil court does not "solve" problems, it mandates and imposes solutions. Opposing parties do not leave the courthouse best friends, and once opposing parties find themselves unable to resolve matters except by full litigation, the process is often described as "surgery with a machete".

The purpose of the BOI is to illuminate. If the added exposure here puts additional pressure on a party or parties to resolve an issue, just as pre-trial litigation often induces pre-trial settlements, then good. Otherwise, its for you and me and everyone else to get a better idea of who we do and don't want to do business with. Whether the OP believes that a BOI thread will actually, as you put it:

I think people post them on the BOI to put pressure on someone to do the right thing.

.... the reality is that the BOI does not usually lead to an amicable resolution where complaints are invloved, especially ones of this size. As KMurphy pointed out, the BOI, and civil court, occur after mediation has failed.

 

[Griz]

Evidence was presented by the prosecution, and the defense confirmed much of it directly, while not refuting other parts, and yet you want to say that evidence based conclusions are not in order ! Randall acknowledged the debt, offered no new numbers, claimed no error in calculations ..... maybe you sell Randall some animals on credit ?

No Jim, Randall acknowledge some of the debt, not all. He also acknowledge that he attempted to make a partial payment which AA declined. I do not contend that Randall owes nothing, he most certainly does and as such have made comments to that effect.

But, to imply that the debt owed is the way that AA states it to be, is asinine at best. Neither you nor anyone else here will be able to remedy the amount owed to a satisfactory level to both parties. To that extent, nor should we. This is a classic BOI he said/she said. If Randall attempts payment and AA declines unless their terms are met then what is he to do?

Griz

 

[Chameleon Company]

Griz,
As pointed out by Kevin, John, Randy, and Mike, both parties have confirmed not only the original terms, but also that a discount was given post shipment that is outside the terms of many, but which AA agreed to with no stated qualms. The only time Randall claimed any further problems with quality was at least a month later, after he had stated numerous times that his "Plan A" to pay them was not working, due to many reasons which were due completely to his bad assumptions about the market. Whether legitimate or not, neither you nor I nor anyone else has terms which legitimize this kind of claim in a business transaction.

At this point, since Randall has not kept a single one of his agreements to pay, some, including you, want to put credence in his claim that payment was refused. Whatever the reality there, Randall needs to attempt actual payment, either by wire transfer or whatever the agreed upon methods were, and then show that it was refused. Otherwise, his name is still Mudd.

The amount in question that AA says Randall owes is around $10K. Although they say that they now want to full $12K, that wouldn't hold up in court, which this case will never see. Randall agreed to the $10K figure within the parameters of both their deal and terms that all respect. If the issue to some here is that maybe Randall now owes only ... what, $8K ..... it is almost immaterial to the claim here, as Randall has not paid one dollar, much less 75% of the deal.

And that bridge you agreed to buy, then claimed there was more rust on it then you expected ...... OK, you can take another 25% off that if you want

 

[Griz]

Randall, do you agree that the emails that AA posted are accurate?

I just went back and reread all of those emails and here is the one that I had overlooked "I am at this point doing my best to sell the animals, and I am truly in a bad position and I am not asking to reduce the invoice any more and I hope you do not feel it was what I was asking. It is not
I have nothing but the full intentions in paying you! All I have asked is you bear with me. I know it is a hard business. And I have made a agreement with you and David yall are the most honest people I have ever done business with and getting off to a bad start in doing business with you was never my intentions and I do deeply apologize."

Randall, if you typed this email then there is really nothing left to discuss here.

Jim, I did not want to return that bridge due to the rust. Rather I was disappointed that your promises of Never Never Land being on the other side were false. I had always wanted to see your world and was disappointed that it wasn't there.

Griz

 

[Jim O]

Maybe if Randall was an ex-porn king then you might see things differently?

That was out of line and beneath you, Bob.



Imagine this scenario. You own a janitorial supply distribution company. You place an order for $12K worth of toilet paper, paper towels, and cleaning solution on credit in anticipation of quickly turning it around. You agree to pay 25% within 10 days and the rest say in 30-60 days. Part of the order comes in damaged or wrong. You and your supplier agree to take 20% off the invoice price and you can keep all that you received. Mind you, you have agreed to this. A month later you decide that even more of the product is not what you thought it to be.

Unfortunately, some of your customers find new suppliers and there is a slowdown in office rentals such that the remaining customers order less than you anticipated.

You spend six days in the hospital for something out of your supplier's control.

Three months go by and not only have you not paid the original 25% (which you should have had in advance of receiving such an order if you really planned to pay within 10 days) but you haven't paid a cent.

Now, only after being threatened with exposure to your peers and your customers you offer $1000 payment by wire (which is firmly declined) but don't actually even attempt the wire transfer. Are you the "right" party here? Do you owe the $10K agreed upon price?

In this scenario, are you someone with whom others would want to transact business in the future? This is pretty much what we have here.



As for the animals not being what Randall expected, so what? He negotiated a settlement and then reneged on ALL of it. He didn't dispute one iota of what AA posted in those emails. In this particular deal, he is a deadbeat. He may have excuses, but he still is a deadbeat. There really is not a more appropriate term for it.

 

[Griz]

Jim. read my comment right before this. I had asked for evidence of his acceptance earlier but eventually found it myself. I stand corrected on that issue hence the preceeding post.

As for the porn comment....it was meant in jest. Apt but jest none the less.

Griz

 

[africananimals]

More details

Dear All,

Thanks to everybody who’ve carefully red all the information we’ve given and all the replies received and have posted his opinion comparing all the dates and initial agreements.

Thanks to Randall as well for not denying the existence of the shipment and the legitimacy of the e-mails we’ve posted even thought the complains he’s posting here do not cover the real situation, not to mention that they were not included in his shipment report presented on 4th December for a shipment arrived on 28th November. We recommend him to review his own report!

To all of you I’ll give just a simple example – imagine you are receiving this shipment. You open the boxes (for sure not after 5 or 6 days!) and you see some animals probably dead or unacceptable in one way or another. Do you inform the exporter about this immediately?! I’m sure there will be no negative answers on this question.

Please note that we’ve made the discount ONLY based on the report he sent. It was in writing and we didn’t even discuss it! Please note that in the report were included animals DOA, animals he considered as unacceptable + animals he thought will be hard to sell. In other words according to HIS report everything else was OK!

It’s really childish of Randall to say that he made another report in a tel. conversation! If the amount as per this “telephone report” was different than the one we are claiming don’t you thing that it would have raised some comments in the forth coming correspondence you’ve seen posted here?!

To say it short and simple – We asked Randall to report for everything he’s not satisfied with. He did it and we discounted him accordingly! No comments.

After this discount the amount due is 10 027 USD.

And we agreed to this not just because we believed him all 100% - we just hoped he is a trustworthy person and therefore we swallowed the 6 days delay in his report. Furthermore we had no other option as the shipment was already with him and the promised 30% payment was not in our account.


And to be more specific – immediately after we’ve published the first thread we’ve received the following e-mail from Randall:



Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 15:18:07 -0600 (Central Standard Time)
From: "Crazy Horse!" <[email protected]>
Subject: Ok I have seen the post
To: "African Animals (T) Ltd" <[email protected]>
Marria,
Hello I do not think this is the way to Handel this just so you know it will cause extreme problems for us both
I requested for you to call me for 2 days now and I have some questions i need answers for as well
Regards
Randall



Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 15:43:17 -0600 (Central Standard Time)
From: "Crazy Horse!" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Payment!!!
To: "African Animals (T) Ltd"
Hello Maria & David
Here is my number again if you have lost it, 830-393-8783 I e-mailed you and let you know it was fixed.
And you have my cell number
Before this goes any further we need to talk!!
I have told you of the problems and I did notify you of species sent that were not what they were
Also if I were a thief I would not have e-mailed you and told you to stop and don't send chameleons because of prior problems a thief/crook would of just let you ship the chameleons. So I am asking you call me at your convince I have no international calling at this time but I will get calling card and call you.
Regards
Randall



Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2007 04:36:15 -0800 (PST)
From: "African Animals (T) Ltd."
Subject: Re: Payment!!!
To: "Crazy Horse!" <[email protected]>
The money should be in our account by Tuesday/Wednesday (20 -21 Feb. 2007) if you really want to solve this problem of course, and prevent this of going any further.
Regards,
Maria



Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 17:14:32 -0600 (Central Standard Time)
From: "Crazy Horse!" <[email protected]>
Subject: Ok I have my international calling fixed now
To: "African Animals (T) Ltd" <[email protected]>
Maria
I have my international calling problem fixed now
Will call you please send me the number to contact you on
I tried your African number I get a fast busy tone I might not have the number right
Regards
Randall



Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 22:41:26 -0600 (Central Standard Time)
From: "Crazy Horse!" <[email protected]>
Subject: Please send money transfer info for you or David again
To: "African Animals (T) Ltd" <[email protected]>
Please send money transfer info for you or David again
But I would like to speak with you by phone first also!
Regards
Randall



Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2007 04:36:39 -0800 (PST)
From: "African Animals (T) Ltd" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Please send money transfer info for you or David again
To: "Crazy Horse!" <[email protected]>
You can find the our bank details on the invoice. In case you lost it you can also find the details in our correspondence or ask Omega brokers for a copy of invoice.




Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2007 14:07:55 -0600 (Central Standard Time)
From: "Crazy Horse!" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Please send money transfer info for you or David again
To: [email protected]
Maria,
So you are saying you wont contact me or answer your phone??
Maria I would like to speak with you before this go any further it would be in both our best interest
Regards
Randall



Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2007 12:53:51 -0800 (PST)
From: "African Animals (T) Ltd" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Please send money transfer info for you or David again
To: "Crazy Horse!" <[email protected]>
We've talked a lot over the past 3 months but still there is no any positive development. We've asked couple of times about the payment and you said nothing. You can call me on my mobile XXXXXXXX but still it will be better if you write an e-mail should you wish to discuss anything.
Regards,
Maria


Further he called us even though we asked for correspondence in writing only.

He offered a 1000 USD but if we stick to our previous telephone conversations as Randall wishes, somewhere in January he has promised us to start paying the 10 027 USD in the beginning of February with a first installment of 2000USD and now it’s the end of February already.

We’ve refused the 1000 USD as for us it looked as a black mailing “don’t do the publishing or I will not pay” or “take what I give you or you will not get even this”


Please note that we’ve even taken one final step 12 hours before publishing this thread. Below you’ll see the text of Randall’s sms message:


Message sent 22-Feb-2007, 05:19 a.m. (+0300)
Sender: Tel No +18304771400
(Please note that this message can not be doctored as the text of it is saved with the telephone connection provider)

Maria I need till the 9th or 10th to get more funds collected i also am doing the show to sell rest of stock our internet is down again so i have to use text Can you work with me till then? I truly am having SOME bad problems i have been putting fund aside when i sell your stock and want to put all this behind


This is our reply:

Delivered to:
Tel No +18304771400
22.02.2007 01:58 p.m. (+0300)

Randall, this can work if you send an Affidavit duly signed by you stating that you will pay the amount you owe us for a shipment of reptiles (with AWB....) by 10th March 2007! You must clearly indicate the amount and the payment scheme and send the Affidavit on our fax by 01:00 p.m. US time today! Pls. don't forget that the Affidavit must contain all you personal details-full name,adress and etc. A scanned copy must be sent to our e-mail as well! This is the last option we can offer!


Delivered to:
Tel No +18304771400
22.02.2007 09:04 p.m. (+0300)

Randall, this can work if you send an Affidavit duly signed by you stating that you will pay the amount you owe us for a shipment of reptiles (with AWB....) by 10th March 2007! You must clearly indicate the amount and the payment scheme and send the Affidavit on our fax by 01:00 p.m. US time today! Pls. don't forget that the Affidavit must contain all you personal details-full name,adress and etc. A scanned copy must be sent to our e-mail as well! This is the last option we can offer!


We didn’t get any reply on this!

After this we were more than certain that this guy has no intentions to pay us. If he had such intentions he would have paid something without asking us!

Now we are really willing to take this issue to the end unlike the other exporters who can not afford such actions or do not believe that there is justice for such cases. For us it’s not only because of the money, but is a question of principles as well.

Everybody, please note that we are not at all trying to say that all the importers are like this nor we are trying to discharge all the exporters from Tanzania. The question is not at all about the percentage correlation. We are just trying to point out that there are un correct people from both sides.

No doubt all this has really negative effect on the Importers-Exporters relations and for sure we’ll be much more careful in the future.

Our personal advise to Randall is – be a man and do not act like a blameful child trying to justify him self.

From our side – we promise that in case of payment of the USD 10 027 USD till 10th of March as he has promised in his sms message we’ll not take any legal actions against Mr. Randall Ellis and we’ll not claim the full invoice amount of 12 183.20.

And this is the last we can offer.

And last but not least we saw some people accusing us in making an advertisement of our company in BOI – There are a lot of ways to advertise your company, but there are not a lot of places where you can ask for help if you are in a situation like ours. So, do you suggest that we shouldn’t have posted being afraid that somebody will think we are just looking for a free add?! Isn’t it true that you can accuse most of the people posting here of the same thing? Isn’t that why BOI exists – to post about your negative or positive experience? This is what we’ve done.

Thanks again to everybody who've spared some of their time and posted their opinion.

Maria Milusheva
General Manager
www.africananimals.biz

 

[ViperPaintball]

"I think people post them on the BOI to put pressure on someone to do the right thing. "

That should read

"People post them on the BOI to put pressure on someone to do what those people feel is the right thing based on any unvarified evidence is provided, as well as personal agenda and any other biases they have against either side."

This isn't a court. Evidence is not really certified. This is like the "Peoples Court" TV show at best...except that the TV show is, at least, entertaining. This is more like a lynch mob in the old west. Ever see one of those movies where one forms? The guy who they want to hang is usually either falsely-accused, or the mob-mentality has the facts blown all out of proportion. Either way the "guily" party is usually pleading "Wait! Listen!" but no one hears because everyone is busy screaming "Yeah! He's guilty because I heard that blah blah blah!" or "Jethro told me he saw him doing blah blah blah!"

Usually the hero, or the underdog, shows up and fires a gun in the air to get everyone's attention, then he goes into a long monologue about what he knows really happened, and the mob all look at each other with guilty faces and wonder how they got so out-of-control. That or the sherriff shows up, fires his gun, and tells them that he'll get a fair trial and the courts will decide.

You say this forum is a credible and effecitive tool for justice? He, and any other offender, is guilty because it says so? But wait! Here's are three other threads on this same forum about Randall Ellis:
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64649
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58841
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35968

Here's some more feedback...all positive:
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/traderratings.php?u=7190

Now here's one that shows how many people here have personal agendas and axes to grind:
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40596

And now some African firm lays out some claims and everyone screams "Lynch him!!!" Mob mentality at it's finest.

How many of you have gotten an email from Mr. Zulubambulu wanting to share a million dollars with him if you just send him ten grand so he can get to the money? How about Doctor Whatisname who has an expensive pedigreed dog that he wants to get back to the states, and will give it to you if you just send him the money for the shipping?

Here's a scenario:

What if I agreed to send you twenty Ferrari Spiders at $30k each? I assure you that they are all primo and low mileage. You know you can move them fast and make a nice profit. Total price is $600k. I tell you I want $200k on delivery, and the rest quickly. You have two sold already at $60k each, so you make the order. However, when they arrive there are only two that are ready to sell. The rest have scratches, dents, bloken windows, and even blown motors. Two are totalled, and two aren't even Ferraris.

You contest it, and I lower my total price to $550k. A fifty thousand dollar discount!

But I want my money, and have papers that show that you owe me. You are repairing the cars and trying to move them. The two totaled ones are just losses, and you have to mark up the others closer to regular price in order to recoup the funds, which means it will take longer to move them. You are also having to store them now while you repair them.

What should have been a sweet deal for all involved is now a clusterf*** because the "quality items" I was supposedly shipping turned out to be garbage, and you are stuck moving them.​

Here's another thing to ponder...

Why is it acceptable that you get garbage, dead, and mislabeled animals from exporters? What if you ordered 500 snakes from me and, when they arrived, fifty of them were dead, another fifty were dieing, fifty were colubrids that I sold you as Dendroaspis, and about 200 were malnourished and dehydrated? Everyone would want to lynch ME no matter how much I ed about how I hadn't been paid.​

Again...mob mentality. The power of beating someone down and the satisfaction of feeling that you are doing something to help the greater good. You are the champion of the weak.

Like I said...four threads on this same site, with numerous folks, who say he's a great guy. Now, all of a sudden, based on the word of one person, he is the antichrist because he can't rehab and sell their garbage fast enough to pay them what they ask, all the while hindered by the fact that he got tagged by a Dendroaspis which, I'm guessing, slows you down a bit.

So as far as making choices based on what is here...I'll pass. I'll do it the old-fashioned, and more responsible way. I'll ask other folks that have dealt with the person.

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

Randall, do you agree that the emails that AA posted are accurate?

I just went back and reread all of those emails and here is the one that I had overlooked "I am at this point doing my best to sell the animals, and I am truly in a bad position and I am not asking to reduce the invoice any more and I hope you do not feel it was what I was asking. It is not
I have nothing but the full intentions in paying you! All I have asked is you bear with me. I know it is a hard business. And I have made a agreement with you and David yall are the most honest people I have ever done business with and getting off to a bad start in doing business with you was never my intentions and I do deeply apologize."

Randall, if you typed this email then there is really nothing left to discuss here.

Jim, I did not want to return that bridge due to the rust. Rather I was disappointed that your promises of Never Never Land being on the other side were false. I had always wanted to see your world and was disappointed that it wasn't there.

Griz

Bob

Glad to see that this was a case of your simply missing an Email. I have to confess your stand was a bit perplexing.

As to the veracity of the Emails, Randall made a lengthy post and never once contested the content of any of the posted emails. To me, and I am sure most others, that is a tacit admission that they are genuine. If they were not, I am sure it would have been the first thing mentioned.

As you stated above, "there is really nothing left to discuss here".

 

[Chameleon Company]

Jim, I did not want to return that bridge due to the rust. Rather I was disappointed that your promises of Never Never Land being on the other side were false. I had always wanted to see your world and was disappointed that it wasn't there.

Did I ....... errrr ... put that in writing ? I thought that all I said was that the best things in the world are on the other side ...... maybe a long walk ..... and not exclusive of things not so nice. If you pass La La Land on the way, say Hi" to ViperPaintBall TSE had "good guy" threads here as well before he fleeced folks for over $30K.

Good post Jim O. I depleted my karma action for the day, so you are owed. Despite his predicament, I'd have thought more of Randall if he had come here and just simply stated "I do owe the money, but things occured such that I am currently unable to pay. It may take me some time to square this, but I will. I ask them to accept any partial payments in increments of $1000 or larger that I am able to make. AA has been quite patient, and I am sorry to have let them down". Before anyone laughs, if you distill down Randall's one post, that is not an innaccurate synopsis without all the BS. Most of the debate here is not about some version of Randall's that differs from that of AA. Its people injecting circumstances which are imagined or irrelevent to the deal.

 

[ViperPaintball]

So no one has an answer to my question then? Why is AA allowed to ship garbage, and no one has anything to say about it?

If I made the same shipment to any of you you would be at my door with the cops...or worse...and my crying to be paid would fall on deaf ears.

Sad, tunnel-visioned mob...

 

[Griz]

You know the rust I saw was more related to mental accuity then it was structural degredation.......

Griz

 

[Chameleon Company]

My Bad !

So no one has an answer to my question then? Why is AA allowed to ship garbage, and no one has anything to say about it?

Answer #1) Your question is of no merit.

Answer #2) Parties agree that some of the garbage wasn't even worth a peso, so Randall was given credit for millions of pesos. In fact, Randall was given all the credit he requested, at his word.

Answer #3) Garbage shipping is legal. While one man's trash is another man's treasure, AA let Randall decide what was trash, and what was treasure, and charged only for treasure.

Answer #4) A very applicable adage here is that "if one takes time to argue with an idiot, all other readers will see is two idiots arguing". Not that it applies here, but I just like pointing it out sometimes

There. All fixed.

Griz. Maybe, but damn the graffiti was good !

 

[thomas davis]

facts

randall posted NOWHERE did he dispute the amount owed, and has not even sent the 30% that HE agreed to send upon arrival and it took a week to get the shipment report to them?,inturn they dropped his 12K invoice to 10K on his word no pics just his word!wow!, and yeah randall had a good rep. several good deals on the boi about him but those deals are like mountains to molehills in this case,(a one off sale or 2 is hardly 10K+) what he has done or hasnt done in THIS case speaks VOLUMES to me and others.
its plain and simple pay them what is owed or dont, and live with yourself but remember your taking money away from people over there that try to make a living anyway they can including capturing wild deadly reptiles that they hope they can get 20bux for and im not talking about the AA co or any other exporter co. over there im talking about the lil guy in the bush that does all the collecting he and his are ultimately who you are hurting here randall by not paying. im glad that you have supporters randall but the fact is you received 10K of animals upfront at no cost and have not sent them anything its poor form plain and simple ,,,,,,,,thomas davis

 

[thomas davis]

ok kerry ill answer it

So no one has an answer to my question then? Why is AA allowed to ship garbage, and no one has anything to say about it?

If I made the same shipment to any of you you would be at my door with the cops...or worse...and my crying to be paid would fall on deaf ears.

Sad, tunnel-visioned mob...
__________________
Kerry Rosenberry
Houston Area Reptile Enthusiasts
A place for Houston area reptile freaks.............

if it was garbage they shipped kerry then why did randall NOT bring it up in his shipment report which btw he did not send until a WEEK after he got the shipment? is it he missed all the garbage in the initial inspection that took a week for him to get to them? or is it after that time? i understand and read he gave you a cobra that had probs. that was nice. but plain and simple per his own words he owes these people, i see no tunnel visioned mob i see a wrong that needs to be made right thats all nothing more nothing less,,,,,,,,thomas davis(houston reptile freak)

 

[IBsmokin]

Not all the animals Randall recieved was garbage, he recieved a number of Olive Sand Snakes from AA and he was sellign them for $100 each, he sodl a few by the time I aquired about them in the first week of January,
heres ones

heres another

heres a beautiful hypo dotted house snake he recieved fro regular house snake prices and he had posted on kingsnake for like $300 or something like that.

I was aquiring about the house snakes he had posted has olive house snakes to verify if they were in fact lamprophis olivaceus and here is just one of the ones he had for sale on kingsnake for $250

they look pretty nice to me, these are just a couple of snakes, but he had a number of snakes advertised in kingsnake before he removed them all, and there was some really nice animals on there for sale that he recieved from AA.
Sure there may have been some unacceptable animals shipped, but there was also ones that were decent and very acceptable.

 

[Wilomn]

How is it you guys are sure which snakes came from which dealer.

Didn't Randy say he had shipments from other exporters as well?

 

[Only Exotics]

Last time I checked when I order animals from a wholesaler/importer they are not sent on consignment. You don't have the money you don't get the animals simple as that. Rule of thumb for me is if I can't afford something I won't ask for it hence there are no problems down the line.

 

[Only Exotics]

I can understand Randy not wanting initially to send any money to AA because of him getting burnt by other exporters. But it also sounds like he did not have the 10k to begin with.