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Raptor

K

KHGeckos

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i just bought a male APTOR het. 100% RAPTOR. if i breed him to a female jungle giant albino what would i get? what would i get if i breed him to a tangerine albino? I want to produce RAPTORs but im thinking if its worth breeding them to the 2 females i mentioned or just get a RAPTOR or another het RAPTOR in a few months to make sure i produce RAPTORs. just curious. i tried searching for information about het raptors online but couldnt find anything. thanks
 
KHGeckos said:
i just bought a male APTOR het. 100% RAPTOR. if i breed him to a female jungle giant albino what would i get? what would i get if i breed him to a tangerine albino? I want to produce RAPTORs but im thinking if its worth breeding them to the 2 females i mentioned or just get a RAPTOR or another het RAPTOR in a few months to make sure i produce RAPTORs. just curious. i tried searching for information about het raptors online but couldnt find anything. thanks
Click to expand...
Okay, I'll take a crack at it. To clear things up first, on the APTOR, the only thing that isn't Line Bred is the Albino part. With the first combination

APTOR het RAPTOR x Jungle Giant Albino
50% Giants
50% Non Giants
The offspring would all show traits similar to the mother and the father, varying from baby to baby. Assuming the Red Eye part of the RAPTOR is a simple recessive trait; roughly 25% of the babies will carry the Red Eye Gene.

If you go...
APTOR het RAPTOR x Tangerine Albino
You'd get 100% Albinos. The offspring would again show traits from both the mother and the father.

As for the producing the RAPTORs, since none of the two females mentioned are "het RAPTOR," to get a RAPTOR, the offspring will have to be bred back to the dad. You should get some sweet looking offspring though. Your fastest route to RAPTORs is to buy either a RAPTOR or a het RAPTOR.

Good luck!

Kyle
 
Kenneth, your best bet to produce RAPTORs is just to purchase a RAPTOR. RAPTOR's are not simple recessive, and as Kyle explained with his examples, it is being assumed that Eclipse (I refuse to use "red-eye" or "ruby-eye" ; it sounds stupid) is recessive, though it is unproven 100% as of yet.

Good luck with your project. I have a pair of "het" RAPTORS that I will be pairing the year, I'll keep the forum updated on what exactly I produce. :)
 
IMO only the color is linebred, Kyle. Patterns, the "Patternless", "and Eclipse", are genetic.They work very much like recessives, in that they are passed on to "carriers". When I bred "proven genetic" Stripes to my APTOR, only patterned geckos resulted. If it were a single gene (recessive) they would have been banded double hets.


Since the "Patternless Red Stripes" also produce "Eclipse", and have been proven to be the same as the "Patternless" in the APTOR, it makes more sense that "Patternless" is what produced the solid and snake eyed "Eclipse" morph. Making it something like the "super" form.
 
Thanks for clearing that up for me. I will probably do APTOR het RAPTOR x Jungle Giant Albino to produce a mixed variety. Then I will get another APTOR het RAPTOR female to breed with my current APTOR male. I'd rather get a RAPTOR though, but ill see how prices are in about 2 months.
 
i forgot to mention. Kyle, how can i tell which 25% of the offspring will carry the trait for ruby red eye gene? will these 25% be considered APTORS? if anyone else wants to answer this it would be helpful too, much thanks.
 
KHGeckos said:
i forgot to mention. Kyle, how can i tell which 25% of the offspring will carry the trait for ruby red eye gene? will these 25% be considered APTORS? if anyone else wants to answer this it would be helpful too, much thanks.
Click to expand...
The only way to know which grouping will carry the Red Eye Trait will be breed out the offspring to see if they do or not.

To consider them APTORs, there is no guarentee they will be since I believe majority of the traits are line bred. You will get a combination of line bred traits from both the father and the mother.

Any more questions, feel free to ask!
 
i am in the process of aquiring another aptor het raptor. What percentage of offspring will be Aptors and what percentage will be Raptors if i pair my Aptor het Raptor X Aptor het Raptor? Out of all the Raptors this pair produces, does it vary if i get Ruby Red Eyes?
 
to clear up my last sentence in my last post. What are my chances of producing Red Eye Raptors from the pair i will breed?
 
You just have to breed them out and see the results for yourself. There is no way that you are guaranteed any certain percentage. That is the probabilty involved, not an actual number. "1 in 4" or "25%" means that eventually, like after hundreds of eggs, you will probably end up with that amount. It does not mean 1 out of every 4 geckos will display whatever appearance you are after.

Kyle, you are not listening. What gives you the idea that patterning genes are linebred? Others before me have proven Stripes to be genetic, and the Patternless Stripe(called "Aptor") genes work exactly the same way, they are even compatible with one another. So you have now proven everyone else wrong on this?

It is genetic I am sure of it, and I have been working with this line for two years. You definately can make "APTORs" and even "het"(which just means they carry the Patternless Stripe gene) Aptors!

there is no guarentee they will be
Click to expand...
:confused:
 
groovygeckos said:
Kyle, you are not listening. What gives you the idea that patterning genes are linebred? Others before me have proven Stripes to be genetic, and the Patternless Stripe(called "Aptor") genes work exactly the same way, they are even compatible with one another. So you have now proven everyone else wrong on this?

It is genetic I am sure of it, and I have been working with this line for two years. You definately can make "APTORs" and even "het"(which just means they carry the Patternless Stripe gene) Aptors!
:confused:
Click to expand...
I could of sworn that I read somewhere it was linebred.

Sorry about that. Based off of this, is the Patternless trait recessive? Is there any geckos that show the Patternless trait that are not Albino? So that means RAPTORs have 3 traits working in them, along with the Linebreding from the ORange?

Thanks Dan!
 
The problem is the term "het" is being used wrong.

Heterozygous ("Het"): Unalike alleles at a specific locus.

"Het" does not only define recessive (which is why I did not use the term "recessive" in my definition). In the most basic of terms it does of course, but if you want to be accurate it is "unalike alleles at a specific locus" because...

Codominant: A relationship between two alleles where both are expressed in there heterozygous form together. [Red + White = Red & White)

Incomplete Dominant: A relationship between two alleles where both are partially expressed in there heterozygous form together. (Red + White = Pink)

So unless it's one of those three (not multiple unidentified genes effecting the phenotype), it may be "genetic" but it is not appropriate to use Heterozygous. Anything is genetic. The difference would be is how it is identified.

Also I believe Marcia blew a hole in the the whole Stripes (not speaking of Redstripes or Reverse Stripes) are proven recessive theory when she produced a Banded from a crossing of two "proven genetic Stripes."
 
I`m sure there are some out there that say all patterns are linebred. I think I have found they are genetic in the same way that Stripes are. They were once "proven" by a lot of people before me, and I do agree. I bred both "recessive" genes together, and they combined in all cases.
Stripe X Reverse Stripe, or Stripe X Patternless, would have given me banded double hets, if they were recessive.

"Patternless" is found to come from Stripe X Reverse Stripe, we originally called them Patternless Red Stripes along with Alberto. Well they looked just like non-albino APTORs, and...

the PRS, made only PRS and Reverse Stripes, when bred to APTOR, so they have come from the striped lines.

Also PRS X PRS produces Eclipse Leos without any "APTORs".

This is something that I caught onto a long time ago. But literally all of what were sold as APTORs and Hets produced RAPTORs for the breeders that purchased them. These were "only possible hets" according to Ron, and he did not tell anyone that, as far as I know.

My APTOR (I bought before many knew about the red eyed ones) was said to be "only a possible het Eclipse", and the female het APTOR, I was told was "NOT a het" for Eclipse. Well they made RAPTOR babies for me way back then!

So I thought something is up. The eye trait is actually linked to pattern. It seems to me that Reverse Stripe is a "super" Stripe, Patternless Stripe, would be a "super" of Reverse Stripe. And that Eclipse is the "super" form of Patternless Stripe.

There are types of relationships between co-dom and recessive traits, similar to what it seems like is going on with the Macks, Linebreds, and "Gem" Snows. So I can see, how they could act recessive and give similar results, may even be recessive, but co-dominant to eachother.

Yea there sure are non-albino Patternless, they look pretty much like Red Stripes. See Xavier`s ad for Hiss line Reverse Stripe Het RAPTOR.

Some PRS start out as Reverse Stripes, but it fades away then they get the look that is more like a Red Striper or an "APTOR".
 
Also I believe Marcia blew a hole in the the whole Stripes (not speaking of Redstripes or Reverse Stripes) are proven recessive theory when she produced a Banded from a crossing of two "proven genetic Stripes."
Click to expand...

I know and JMG made these funny almost banded geckos, from their Stripe X Reverse Stripes. No PRS as far as I know. But of course I am going by my own results. I even bred one of their 'double hets" to my APTOR, I only got a funny almost banded w/ a jungle tail, and other abberant patterned geckos.

My own outcrosses when bred back gave me exactly the result they should, I can only go by what I have here to breed with. So I dont know.

Stranger things have happened, I think some people call abberants that arent very abberant "bandeds" too, so I dont know.
 
Stephanie, mine was a Red Stripe, from JMG actually.

I believe they regularly outcrossed their RS to regular Stripes etc, so I thought they were all the same. They seem to be giving different results depending who has them though. How will we ever know? :rofl:
 
groovygeckos said:
So I thought something is up. The eye trait is actually linked to pattern. It seems to me that Reverse Stripe is a "super" Stripe, Patternless Stripe, would be a "super" of Reverse Stripe. And that Eclipse is the "super" form of Patternless Stripe.
Click to expand...

I thought that too, but Pat kicked that theory in the butt with his Banded Eclipse. :shrug01:
 
OMG someone needs to figure out these genetics! Just when I think I have it all figured out something new pops up and throws me for a loop.
 
Stephanie, The Red Eyed Banded carries the "Patternless" genes, and came from that line. Like I have said, not only "Patternless" can give you Eclipse, the geckos that carry the genes can too. My "het" APTOR was only a Reverse Stripe, and proved to be "het" RAPTOR for me. That is where I hatched the worlds first Red Eyed Jungle Albino from. The Jungle gene just happened to pop out, I think it is the same for the banded one. Plus IMO it is actually more of an abberant.

The thing is mine was a "het" APTOR, that seems to be what makes it, not just visual ones.
 
Kelli, you too? Whats funny is I feel I have allready figured it out, for the most part. It is just noone pays attention to some of the facts that I have been posting again, and again over the last year or so.

The whole Patternless Red Stripe/Eclipse thing proves they are not single recessive genes at least! LOL
 
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Pat's "Red Eye" is definitely banded. I also will have an Eclipse Blizzard on the way here shortly, and she is not from "Patternless lines."

No offense intended, but I think your biggest problem with "no one paying attention to your facts" is that you aren't too great at explaining your findings and show no visual proof. What needs to be done, is a complete pictorial record (pedigree) of the cross from parents to every single hatchling that is produced from it.

I think first step in this whole thing, is drop the inappropriate use of heterozygous when saying APTOR or RAPTOR. It's being used as a marketing tool, is inaccurate and it is confusing a lot of people. Say "from RAPTOR lines" or "Sired by a RAPTOR" if it pleases you, but stop the insanity with the inappropriate terminology.
 
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