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raymond melrose bad guy

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YVP_03

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I made a deal with Raymond Melrose from Florida for a SUPER PURPLE Suriname. I told him I'd put money in the bank the next day and paypal it to him. Later that night he sold it out from under me to a guy locally to him for more money and offered me a less attractive snake. Does anybody have principles anymore? That is all.
:(
 
Well,
He shouldn't be labelled as bad guy. He didn't rip you off. You didn't send him the money. He didn't receive your money. You just told him that you're going to put money in the bank the next day and Paypal him. What happens if you change your mind. Besides, it would be more convenience for him and better for the animal if he can sell it locally, and don't have to go through shipping. Unless he receive your money, and ship you a different, less attractive snake, you jump the gun here. Just my 2 cents.
 
Couple things here, Brandon:

First, you need to post your full name on each and every post here on the BOI. I you don't your postings can (will) be deleted, both good and bad.

Second, as a general rule, I look at it as "No money, no deal!" So, since you had not yet sent the money to this guy, he really had no ethical responsibility to hold it for you. Since he had no such responsibility, and he had received another bid on it, which was higher than yours, he probably should have contacted you first. Who knows, maybe you would have matched the offer, and he could have still sold it to you?!?!?

Finally, because there was no deal, you were not ripped off, and your only real complaint is that he was not courteous enough to give you a chance to meet the bid, I would suggest that a "BAD GUY" post may be to severe for the situation. Perhaps a thread in the General Business Discussion forum would be more appropriate? That way, you can make your point about courtesy without staining the reputation of a man who did you no real harm.

Better luck on your next deal!
 
The one thing that I am unclear on is whether or not Mr Melrose commited to holding the snake. If he explicitly promised to hold it, then sold it to another customer, then I would say question the ethics involved.
 
Brandon Fischer, sorry.
I never said I was ripped off, but what happened to me was unethical. I had emailed Raymond saying I would buy it. He said, great, it's yours, and gave me his email address to paypal $$ to him. When I woke up the next morning he had emailed me saying he sold it to somebody else. I think that is just wrong and that's why I started this thread. As far as the 'no money, no deal' goes, in my opinion, that is greed speaking. I sell things online from time to time and I have a 24 hour good faith policy. Maybe I'm just a gentleman. *shrugs. How I see it is that somebody emailed him after I commited myself to it, he said, sorry, sale pending. The other person said I'll give you more for it. He figuratively said "f**k Brandon'' and sold it to somebody else before I even woke up. This wasn't an auction! If this were E-bay the bidding would have been closed! It's sad to see greed in such a peaceful hobby. :(
 
I have to side with Brandon on this one.

Something similar happened to me very recently, but not in relation to buying herps. I contacted someone via email about buying an item from him. He responded around 10am with his phone number, but said not to bother calling the rest of the day because he would be out all day. I emailed him back that afternoon saying I definitely wanted that item and would try to call the following day.

When I awoke the next morning, I had an email in my inbox saying he had sold the item to someone else.

It's a matter of perspective, I guess. Sure, he didn't have the money in hand, and certainly he had probably had his share of people that did not come through in the past. But dang it, there should be such a thing as common courtesy. He could have told the other guy he had a pending sale and would like to check that first before going any further. The fact that he specifically told me not to bother trying to contact him resulted in my not being able to complete the sale in a timely fashion, not through any delay or stalling on my part.

This sort of thing just generates bad blood. I don't care if the guy was offering $20 bills for $10, he will never get my business. If someone does not consider their word to be their bond, then I am certain that other aspects of the way they do business would be just as unsatisfactory to me.

So Brandon, maybe this was best for you. Just ignore anything else the guy offers for sale. If enough people do that, he will either change the way he does business or be out of business.

Being offered more money for an item that has already been committed, and reneging on the prior sale because of it, is a huge breach of ethics. Certainly I would never trust the guy's word again.
 
I call it Back Paddle

Not that I do tons of deals online, but in the past six months I've had four deals basically end up like what happen here. I emailed the person with the Ad(s) made an offer to purchase, offer was accepted. Only to be told later that the animal(s) were sold locality. And this is after I've gone to the Post Office and had money orders made out to the Sellers. One was actually mailed, and returned un-opened.
I didn't post any "Bad Guy" inquires, but boy I wanted to.
Also, just to be honest, I've had ads posted myself, with people making me offers to purchase. I've held the animal(s) waiting for payment that never came. So my point? I think we need to come up with some kind of guide lines that will benefit both buyers and sellers. I don't wish to hold animals pending payment that never comes, but then again, I don't want to send payment for animals I will never get.
What, if any policies do the larger Internet dealers go by on someone wishing to purchase? Do you give them twenty four hours to pay via PayPal? Seven days to send a money order or Check? Maybe we can follow your lead?
 
After that clarification, I gotta agree with Brandon. If an animal/item is promised to a customer, it shouldn't be sold out from underneath them before they have a chance to fulfill their end of the deal.
 
"He said, great, it's yours..."

If that is what he said, then honor demands that he keep his word. It is a question of a man (or woman) being honest.

When I said that my policy is basically, "No money, no deal," I meant that I do not say, "Great, it's yours" until the money (at least a deposit) is in my hand. If that makes me mercenary, well I guess I may be. However, I've just had too many people say, "Hold it for me and I'll get the PayPal to you tomorrow!" only to never hear from them again. So, I'll hold an animal for you, but only after some consideration (money) has made it my way.

Given the givens here, though, Brandon I'd have to say that you were wronged by this individual's lack of ethics. I will sell a snake if a higher offer comes in before I get a deposit from someone, but I will go back to the first "bidder" to see if he wants to match that higher offer. But, I never say "it's yours" until it's sold, and it isn't sold until I get some money. At least, that's my general practice, I might ease up with someone I know really well, but not a stranger.
 
Boavoyage said:
Although the seller MAY be wrong, does he deserve the label BAD GUY?
Click to expand...
in my humble opinion, yes he does. he wronged me. he had posted the most beautiful surinam that I've ever seen. until that ad was posted, I'd had zero interest in suris. all of my projects have been bci oriented. my heart raced and smoke came out of my ears when I thought of the possibilities in breeding scenarios just to have it yanked out from under me. I fell asleep happier than I'd been in a long time believing that the snake was mine. I was going to go to the bank to make a deposit when I woke, only to get an email from him saying he sold it later that night.
BAD GUY in my opinion! :mad: :uzi:
 
On this one I think Brandon is right. The guy told him the snake was his. He didn't qualify the statement with any other statement or condition.

He basically lied to Brandon.

He's basically a bad guy. He didn't have to tell Brandon it was sold but, he did. Therefore it WAS sold. To Brandon.

When he sold it AGAIN to someone else that made him a bad guy. He voided his word.

Wes Pollock
 
I had emailed Raymond saying I would buy it. He said, great, it's yours, and gave me his email address to paypal $$ to him.
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Brandon,
Is it possible if you can post your emails exchanged with Raymond Melrose?
Also, did you notify Raymond that you post here?
 
I don't have the first two emails for the transaction. I deleted them in anger not thinking that I would need them for at the time, it didn't cross my mind to post threads in forums. I do however have his reply to my email that I sent him after he told me that he had sold the snake to somebody else. my email said "uhhhhhhhhhhhh nice ethics, wtf is that?!!!" this was his reply....
Brandon,
I do apologize. However I had an offer for more money last night, prior to your message from someone local who had the cash first thing this morning. I checked the paypal account from you, there was nothing. If I had a dollar from every person that said they would buy that snake from me, and said they would send me
money I would be rich and would just keep all the beautiful Boas I produce. I tried to be a good person by offering you another great Boa from the same litter.....with pastel colors and all prior
to everyone else who views the Kingsnake classifieds. If you can't accept this as a gesture of at least an attempt
at ethics, so be it.
Regards,
-Raymond

this was my reply to that email....
Raymond,
It's sad that you couldn't wait a few hours. I was up until 3am working as I normally am. I usually wake up @ 10:30am, and when I need to go to the bank, I do it by noon so it posts on that day. As far as you TRYING to be a good person by offering me a less attractive snake after you pulled that one out from under me.... I'm speechless due to my refraining from severe profanity. I'm sure that you've had a few hundred people say they'll send
the money and don't, but the least you could have done is given me until the end of the business day. I did say tomorrow, I didn't give you a time. It's still 'tomorrow', after the fact. I feel that what you've done is extremely unethical. You don't know me or the fact that I keep my word. I gave my word when I said SOLD. I don't [bleep] around with my Boas. You need to treat everybody with trust and respect until they prove that they don't deserve it, i.e.. not sending money when they said they would. The fact
that somebody offered you more money and it was local should have been irrelevant until I proved myself a chump, which would not have happened. I personally have a 24 hour faith policy for paypal agreements. Maybe I'm just different. Your apology means nothing to me. You're not sorry, you're greedy and that's sad. You broke an agreement with me.
Brandon

and no John, I have not notified him that I post here. if he sees it, great, if not, that's great too. I've nothing more to say to him. I won't waste my e-breath with him......so to say.....
 
this is the sibling to the snake that is the center for the topic of discussion here....the snake I was after was about 200% more purple :(
 

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This is a tough call and a touchy situation. Raymond (of south Florida) purchased some cages from me and we also traded boas for pythons. The deal went well - aside from a tragic unavoidable event with one of his gorgeous GTPs - and I found him quite agreeable. So, I do not label him a bad guy, but a good guy.

Now, in terms of business ethics, that is a foreign concept to many (dare I say most). I understand "No Money, no deal", however, if you make an agreement ("Yes, I'll hold the snake") then you really should stick to that agreement. If after a specified time limit has passed, then offer it to the next person in line.

I sold a GTP to a gentleman that was out of state. I posted the offer that I prefer a local deal - for the animals safety. The deal was made and he was going to send the money within a day. Within hours of the deal, I received an offer on the snake and this guy would pay now. I was in a dilema. Sell the snake to this guy who could pick up and pay for the snake now or stay with my original commitment.

I feel confident I made the right choice. My GTP was sent out of state. Last I heard, he's doing great. It's a judgement call whether or not you want to do business with someone who does not follow through on a verbal commitment. But I understand how frustrating it can be. It has happened to me in the past.
 
First, I want to say that I don't know either Raymond or Brandon, just in case anyone think I am taking side.
However I had an offer for more money last night, prior to your message from someone local who had the cash first thing this morning. I checked the paypal account from you, there was nothing.
Click to expand...
It's sad that you couldn't wait a few hours. I was up until 3am working as I normally am. I usually wake up @ 10:30am, and when I need to go to the bank, I do it by noon so it posts on that day..... I'm sure that you've had a few hundred people say they'll send the money and don't, but the least you could have done is given me until the end of the business day. I did say tomorrow, I didn't give you a time. It's still 'tomorrow', after the fact.
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Brandon,
May I ask what time did he send you this email? From what I look, he did give you until "tomorrow". He may sell the snake to someone else in the morning before you have a chance to go to the bank, deposit the money, and paypal him. However, it's still "tomorrow", after the fact. You didn't let him know what time of "tomorrow" you're going to paypal him, just assume that he need to wait until the end of the business day. From what I see, it's a lack of communication, ie. buyer asked to hold the snake until tomorrow (w/o time frame), and seller did hold the snake until tomorrow (sold in the morning.) Ramond did keep his word, thus, he should not be called bad guy here.
 
John,

Raymond said, "The snake is yours." That means the deal was done, and he then sold the snake to a higher bidder out from under Brandon.

We can debate whether he should have said that to Brandon without getting some money first, but that is a moot point in this discussion. He said it, and sealed the deal in so doing. That's why his practices were of a "Bad Guy" nature and were rightly posted here.
 
This is a tough one for me

The opposite happened to me. I had a buyer who had purchased from me before and was interested in an expensive gecko that I have. I sent her quite a few pictures and was very honest ( to a fault probably) about the gecko. I even sent her comparison pictures of color for her to see. She finally made up her mind ( or so I thought) and said she definitely wanted the gecko. She called me to put a deposit down on her until next week and dumb me said no I trust you and I will hold her for you to pay me next week. Well, five days went by and I had forwarded the picture of this female to a few people just to show her off previously and another one of my past customers called me and wanted to buy her. I tried to call the individual who had committed to her and she was on a long distance phone call and was to call me back. I did not hear back from her that day, so again stupid me told the second person to go ahead and buy two other geckos from someone else because I did not want to burn the first person. I went out of town for Labor day weekend and returned on that Mon. to find an e-mail telling me she purchased another gecko that was a little older and I am sure that I could sell mine quickly and so on.

I have never done this before, but I e-mailed her back explaining that I had trusted her word and even called to confirm with no answer back from her. I told her that I was a bit frustrated because I could have sold her and did not. She did e-mail me an apology but I still have the gecko (which I have not put up for sale officially and I am sure she will sell but that is not my point).

I own another business and was raised that your word is your bond but because of her and a few others, I will not let it happen again.
Sorry for the long post, I had to vent.

Bruce Davis
 
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