Bad Guy Repticon EXTREEMELY BAD FOR THE REPTILE INDUSTRY

[CarolinaClassicDragons]

I'm just a lurker here, but I'm surprised how many people complain that they keep doing the shows and keep not making money.... If you aren't making money, stop doing the shows. Nobody forces you to be there. I do many of their West coast shows, and they've been hit or miss. I don't blame or get upset with Repticon when I don't do well, I just think twice before going back. I skipped Costa Mesa this past weekend because the last one was slow for me in sales and I had other things I wanted to get done on Saturday. If I can do one of their shows and make it worth my time and effort, then I continue to go back. I don't care for many of their venues being small or old buildings or whatever, but that's their decision to make and I can decide whether or not to go based on the potential for me making money.

Their exclusive deals are another example; that was their decision to make and I can decide whether or not to support their shows the way they have it structured. It's not my business if they only want to allow one sand boa vendor in. If they want one cricket vendor that can't get his sizes right, then I bring my own crickets to use on my animals at the show. If their mice vendor has a history of being expensive, I'd buy them from someone else.

At the end of the day, it is what it is. If you don't like their business model, just don't go.

You seemed to have missed many of the points that have been made. We all know we have choices on whether to do a show or not. Attendees have a choice on whether or not they want to pay to come to a show and not get what they pay for. You bring up the cricket thing...so you personally know the product is crap so you bring your own crickets. Lucky you. Do you think the average attendee has that kind of knowledge about the product when they go and lay down $20 for a box of a 1,000? No, they don't. Would a vendor have to be concerned about the quality of their product if there was competition there? Yes they would. But guess what, they don't because there are no other options for customers. Want crickets? Have to buy ours. Want frozen feeders? Have to by ours. Attendees would also get better deals and be more likely to want to come back to the next show if there was some friendly competition.

Personally, I do not do a lot of shows. Maybe 8-10 a year in my state and neighboring states. So... it is very important to me to have these local shows continue to succeed the way they have for years. Shows have always been a part of my successful business plan. I personally will not just sit back and let a business model ruin a hobby that I love and that I want future generations to love. Like it or not, Repticon has become a small monopoly in many parts of the country. Some have had the response of ..."why not just go out and start your own company to promote shows?" Well, that is just plain stupid! Lets just dilute the market that much more by increasing the number of shows. What we need is for Repticon to be successful in the markets they play in AND for their vendors to be successful. It cannot be a one way street for long.

And by the way, Repticon now has an exclusive contract with "Tortoises Galore" so I guess you don't even have a choice anymore. That part was total BS but you get the point.

 

[Lucille]

What we need is for Repticon to be successful in the markets they play in AND for their vendors to be successful.

So basically what you guys are all whining about is the exclusive vendors and frequency. Well the exclusive vendor issue is a very dound business practice for repticon. Also just because the frequency doesn't work for you it's obviously working for someone or they wouldn't be buying tables once a month.

You know what I really think is ruining the expo market? Online sales. Let's start a bad guy thread on every person selling online and complain about how they are taking away from the expo market and ruining it. I mean if we stopped all online sales people would flood every expo to pick up their feeders and snakes.

It has been mentioned from the start that Repticon is not in business to lose money. If they do not make a profit, they would not put on shows. And vendors are buying tables.

If one takes a look at the history of business, one does not succeed by begging successful businesses for mercy. Capitalism means competition, competition means that some businesses necessarily do better than others. And there is always new competition-there are many instances of computer, grocery, and other businesses entering a supposedly saturated market and doing very well, especially if they can add customer friendly innovation.

Business models are not static. As the world changes, a successful business must change and adapt in order to continue to try to be successful.
Asking Repticon to change a model that is successful for them (and which continues to draw the attendance of those who buy tickets and pay for tables) may not be fruitful. But there is always room for business change and success.

Innovate.

 

[TylerStewart]

You seemed to have missed many of the points that have been made. We all know we have choices on whether to do a show or not. Attendees have a choice on whether or not they want to pay to come to a show and not get what they pay for. You bring up the cricket thing...so you personally know the product is crap so you bring your own crickets. Lucky you. Do you think the average attendee has that kind of knowledge about the product when they go and lay down $20 for a box of a 1,000? No, they don't. Would a vendor have to be concerned about the quality of their product if there was competition there? Yes they would. But guess what, they don't because there are no other options for customers. Want crickets? Have to buy ours. Want frozen feeders? Have to by ours. Attendees would also get better deals and be more likely to want to come back to the next show if there was some friendly competition.

Personally, I do not do a lot of shows. Maybe 8-10 a year in my state and neighboring states. So... it is very important to me to have these local shows continue to succeed the way they have for years. Shows have always been a part of my successful business plan. I personally will not just sit back and let a business model ruin a hobby that I love and that I want future generations to love. Like it or not, Repticon has become a small monopoly in many parts of the country. Some have had the response of ..."why not just go out and start your own company to promote shows?" Well, that is just plain stupid! Lets just dilute the market that much more by increasing the number of shows. What we need is for Repticon to be successful in the markets they play in AND for their vendors to be successful. It cannot be a one way street for long.

And by the way, Repticon now has an exclusive contract with "Tortoises Galore" so I guess you don't even have a choice anymore. That part was total BS but you get the point.

I'm not missing the point at all.... If a customer buys crappy crickets once, they will know better next time and it will reflect badly on the vendor and on Repticon for only allowing that one vendor. Repticon is under no obligation to allow 6 cricket vendors in if that's the way they want to run their shows. Nobody forces a customer to buy crickets once he walks in to a show (you're assuming that cricket vendor number two is going to have better crickets which probably couldn't be determined by looking through the screened cricket boxes anyways). They don't have to buy anything.

If "Tortoises Galore" starts doing shows and does an exclusive contract with them, then I guess I'm out the maybe one Repticon show I planned on doing next year. They apparently just stopped doing the Reno show which was the only one I did with any regularity (Farmington UT was real slow for me and I never did it twice). I may not like Repticon's decision to do that, but I'm not going to start a Bad Guy thread about them; they didn't rip anyone off. Their shows have never been great for me, so when one approaches, I just make a financial decision to do it or not (sometimes promoting a business, a product, or a website makes it justified to break even or take a loss on doing a show).

For clarity, I am one of the promoters of the Las Vegas Reptile Expo. We don't have any exclusive deals, but I can see the problems that would arise from having multiple cricket vendors all sign up (they would all do poorly). We encourage one to come and hope that nobody else signs up.

 

[CarolinaClassicDragons]

It has been mentioned from the start that Repticon is not in business to lose money. If they do not make a profit, they would not put on shows. And vendors are buying tables.

If one takes a look at the history of business, one does not succeed by begging successful businesses for mercy. Capitalism means competition, competition means that some businesses necessarily do better than others. And there is always new competition-there are many instances of computer, grocery, and other businesses entering a supposedly saturated market and doing very well, especially if they can add customer friendly innovation.

Business models are not static. As the world changes, a successful business must change and adapt in order to continue to try to be successful.
Asking Repticon to change a model that is successful for them (and which continues to draw the attendance of those who buy tickets and pay for tables) may not be fruitful. But there is always room for business change and success.

Innovate.

Thanks Lucille! You just pointed out many of the reasons why Repticon will not enjoy continued success if they stay on the path they are currently on. You must have some insight to their financials as you seem to think that just because they continue to do shows they are "successful". I can tell you for certain that their attendance numbers for this last Repticon Raleigh were way down. How long do you think they can afford to put on shows like that one? Look that up in your "History of Business" book. Answer= not long. I can't wait to come back several years from now and see where all of this is at and how it played out. I am hoping that they listen to their customers, both attendees and vendors, and don't become "static" as you say. I, for one, haven't been static and see where my online presence and investment in social media advertising is far more fruitful than vending recent "Reptile" shows. That is a shame as I think the experience of attending a really good reptile show is very important for the future of this hobby.

 

[Matt J.]

I've been a vendor with the Repticon shows for both Tampa and Orlando for a number of years now (6 or 7?) and have been vending at another BIG Florida show for 16 years. The one thing Repticon in particular offers me: VERY affordable table space and the proprietors are SUPER nice!!! They have always been helpful and accommodating and I don't have a single negative thing to say about them or their shows. In my opinion, people are being VERY short sighted with all this... ONE thing (okay, two things) 'killed' the 'Reptile Industry'. The internet, plain and simple. Once internet sales got rolling the 'need' for Reptile Expos became a thing of the past. The ability to simply click on the animal you want, pay and the next day it's sitting on your doorstep changed everything!!! Also, the simple rule of supply and demand 'corrected' the reptile industry- For quick example, last year a Pastel Black Pastel Coral Glow was a 20K snake... this year? $2K Why? Supply and demand, plain and simple. Repticon has done nothing wrong in my eyes. If anything, they are bringing reptile expos to some rather 'odd' places and that's good for some folks (buyers) and not so hot for others (vendors) if sales are down. They cannot control sales, plain and simple. The idea that they contract with a particular company for certain items and exclude other companies is 100% legal, legitimate and within their bounds to do as a private (capitalistic) company (who can 'select' who they want for certain products). It's all about them trying things out. Bottom line, I've done fine at every Repticon show I've ever been a vendor at. Why? Maybe I have what the public wants? Maybe I have a solid reputation after all these years? Maybe I have higher quality animals than the next guy behind their table?!? Maybe my 'luck' will run out!?! Very possible! The way I see it, this is supply and demand... if I have what 'people' want and make sales then good for me. If other vendors at an expo do poorly, then they need to figure out what to do 'right' instead of what they are doing 'wrong' or call it quits... If I don't make sales, then I need to figure out what 'people' DO want! On another note, I've never had a bad show in Daytona and lord knows it's tough to compete with 400 other Ball Python breeders!!! Don't blame Repticon for filling what it see's as a niche for being the Walmart of Expos (everywhere you look)... look to what YOU are doing and maybe switch gears or do the easier thing and DO NOT vend at their shows! Just my misguided mind rambling after 16+ years doing all this... no hard feelings towards anyone, but I think to 'blame' these folks for hurting the reptile industry is just plain misguided and unwarranted. IF they are making mistakes with so many shows as someone just above put it, they will have to change their business plan too-

Matt

 

[JeromyD]

I've been a vendor with the Repticon shows for both Tampa and Orlando for a number of years now (6 or 7?) and have been vending at another BIG Florida show for 16 years. The one thing Repticon in particular offers me: VERY affordable table space and the proprietors are SUPER nice!!! They have always been helpful and accommodating and I don't have a single negative thing to say about them or their shows. In my opinion, people are being VERY short sighted with all this... ONE thing (okay, two things) 'killed' the 'Reptile Industry'. The internet, plain and simple. Once internet sales got rolling the 'need' for Reptile Expos became a thing of the past. The ability to simply click on the animal you want, pay and the next day it's sitting on your doorstep changed everything!!! Also, the simple rule of supply and demand 'corrected' the reptile industry- For quick example, last year a Pastel Black Pastel Coral Glow was a 20K snake... this year? $2K Why? Supply and demand, plain and simple. Repticon has done nothing wrong in my eyes. If anything, they are bringing reptile expos to some rather 'odd' places and that's good for some folks (buyers) and not so hot for others (vendors) if sales are down. They cannot control sales, plain and simple. The idea that they contract with a particular company for certain items and exclude other companies is 100% legal, legitimate and within their bounds to do as a private (capitalistic) company (who can 'select' who they want for certain products). It's all about them trying things out. Bottom line, I've done fine at every Repticon show I've ever been a vendor at. Why? Maybe I have what the public wants? Maybe I have a solid reputation after all these years? Maybe I have higher quality animals than the next guy behind their table?!? Maybe my 'luck' will run out!?! Very possible! The way I see it, this is supply and demand... if I have what 'people' want and make sales then good for me. If other vendors at an expo do poorly, then they need to figure out what to do 'right' instead of what they are doing 'wrong' or call it quits... If I don't make sales, then I need to figure out what 'people' DO want! On another note, I've never had a bad show in Daytona and lord knows it's tough to compete with 400 other Ball Python breeders!!! Don't blame Repticon for filling what it see's as a niche for being the Walmart of Expos (everywhere you look)... look to what YOU are doing and maybe switch gears or do the easier thing and DO NOT vend at their shows! Just my misguided mind rambling after 16+ years doing all this... no hard feelings towards anyone, but I think to 'blame' these folks for hurting the reptile industry is just plain misguided and unwarranted. IF they are making mistakes with so many shows as someone just above put it, they will have to change their business plan too-

Matt

+1

 

[Herps Alive!]

I've been a vendor with the Repticon shows for both Tampa and Orlando for a number of years now (6 or 7?) and have been vending at another BIG Florida show for 16 years. The one thing Repticon in particular offers me: VERY affordable table space and the proprietors are SUPER nice!!! They have always been helpful and accommodating and I don't have a single negative thing to say about them or their shows. In my opinion, people are being VERY short sighted with all this... ONE thing (okay, two things) 'killed' the 'Reptile Industry'. The internet, plain and simple. Once internet sales got rolling the 'need' for Reptile Expos became a thing of the past. The ability to simply click on the animal you want, pay and the next day it's sitting on your doorstep changed everything!!! Also, the simple rule of supply and demand 'corrected' the reptile industry- For quick example, last year a Pastel Black Pastel Coral Glow was a 20K snake... this year? $2K Why? Supply and demand, plain and simple. Repticon has done nothing wrong in my eyes. If anything, they are bringing reptile expos to some rather 'odd' places and that's good for some folks (buyers) and not so hot for others (vendors) if sales are down. They cannot control sales, plain and simple. The idea that they contract with a particular company for certain items and exclude other companies is 100% legal, legitimate and within their bounds to do as a private (capitalistic) company (who can 'select' who they want for certain products). It's all about them trying things out. Bottom line, I've done fine at every Repticon show I've ever been a vendor at. Why? Maybe I have what the public wants? Maybe I have a solid reputation after all these years? Maybe I have higher quality animals than the next guy behind their table?!? Maybe my 'luck' will run out!?! Very possible! The way I see it, this is supply and demand... if I have what 'people' want and make sales then good for me. If other vendors at an expo do poorly, then they need to figure out what to do 'right' instead of what they are doing 'wrong' or call it quits... If I don't make sales, then I need to figure out what 'people' DO want! On another note, I've never had a bad show in Daytona and lord knows it's tough to compete with 400 other Ball Python breeders!!! Don't blame Repticon for filling what it see's as a niche for being the Walmart of Expos (everywhere you look)... look to what YOU are doing and maybe switch gears or do the easier thing and DO NOT vend at their shows! Just my misguided mind rambling after 16+ years doing all this... no hard feelings towards anyone, but I think to 'blame' these folks for hurting the reptile industry is just plain misguided and unwarranted. IF they are making mistakes with so many shows as someone just above put it, they will have to change their business plan too-

Matt

Some faulty logic here. IF the Internet killed the Reptile Expo (is that a Buggles sequel?), why are there more expos now than there used to be? And not just Repticon shows. Other shows expand or increase frequency regularly. New markets open up. Competitors start second shows (Columbus, OH being a perfect example) There is clearly a market, bit these show promoters will have to work harder to provide value.
As for buying on the net, it is not the same as buying a book or hard good at Amazon or E-Bay. Read the BOI here. the majority of posts are negative. Reading the BOI would scare the hell out of me if I were a novice buyer on the net. The advantage of being able to have a face-to-face transaction is huge and that is why the Repticons of the world (and other promoters) continue to expand.

 

[evansnakes]

I was a vendor at the first repticon show in the Chicago area. I really felt like it made clear some issues that they have with the way they conduct business.

1) The door was horrible. They relied too much on their "brand name" and word of mouth. I commented that they had no presence in that part of the country, Tinley park was twice a year now and they set up the show just a couple miles down the road from a twice a month show. So there is a herp show every other week but they still went with their show there. There were close to 100 vendor tables and no customers and not one vendor was happy with sales.

2) There were a bunch of vendors stolen from overnight. Another issue with the 2 day show, and yes this should have been a one day show as well and by doing a 2 day show and having no security and allowing somebody to get in and steal pied ball pythons, retic and boa morphs and more from many vendors, it was poorly done and made Sunday even worse than just having no customers when you got to hear about theft all day.

3) if you are a traveling vendor and you agree to do a bunch of their shows you get treated very differently than if you are regional or local and just do one or two shows. You don't want to be a vendor that is at a show being treated like a second class citizen.

With the exclusives I have two views. I have no problem if there is just one rodent and one cricket vendor, If they don't sell out. If you don't have enough demand for more than one vendor why waste space on them when you can have more reptiles in the show? Now the part I do have a problem with is giving exclusives on types of animals for sale at the show. If you only allow one vendor to have Kenyan sand boas or leopard geckos or anything else, I have a huge problem with that. If you are going to tell live animal vendors what they can and cant sell at your show you have gone too far.

 

[Ron Allen]

I like the Repticon shows as a buyer. It is certainly a buyers market. I have practically stolen some really nice animals from the desperate vendors. As I vendor,-not for me. Unless I have just a few odds and ends I am willing to move cheap and share a table.

The exclusivity doesn't sit well with me. It reeks of crony capitalism, therefore I choose NOT to purchase from the vendors (rodents/bugs) that engage in it. I have good sources of them locally though others may not.

 

[Matt J.]

Hey Keith! Good points... I've been a lurker on the BOI for over 10 years so I do know how 'negative' this place can be... My logic (generally faulty... ). My point was that in one way, the internet killed the reptile expo because it became SO easy to purchase online and simply bypass an expo (I'm guilty of internet buying). More animals are being produced and I think less people attend expos simply because so many folks can buy exactly what they want from the convenience of the computer, therefore TONS of animals at shows and less buyers. Back in the day? I'd be SOLD OUT on Saturday at no later than maybe 2 or 3 pm because demand and attendance was UNREAL at expos. So, maybe it's a combo in the grand scheme. Also, I'm biased since the 'local' Repticon Tampa and Orlando shows have been so good to me. I've had feedback that other shows in Florida have been fine while others mediocre (for sales and even attendance). So, look at it this way... Repticon is not necessarily 'bad' for the reptile industry... they are sorting it out just like I am. It is dynamic and changing and I have to change too- I have little doubt with ALL the shows they are putting on that a number will fall by the wayside and be gone- They will find a core group of shows that do well around the country and likely stick with them. Funny, I talked to a few folks who were vendors at Tinley this year. Their feedback? It was their worst show ever!!! Attendance was CRAZY high but nobody was buying anything... this was not one or two people, but a number that said the exact same thing. So, even the 'best' show in the US can leave vendors reeling with terrible sales. Where does it all end? When a 5 gene Ball is $50 bucks and 80% of the breeders get out... Just kidding... honestly, I don't know... all I know is that the folks at Repticon here in Florida have treated me like family and their expos that I vend at have been great for me!!! I don't think they necessarily deserve this thread and thus my input. You can tell by my small number of posts that I don't usually say much here on the BOI- Thanks for your perspective!

Matt