Inquiry REPTICON Show Series Exclusive Sponsorship Agreement with FL Chams

[homegrownherps]

that is funny, i heard that the show started off slow, and attendence was down, that was from a vender that was their, and why wont anyone answer what i asked were is the line drawn on who can sell chameleons and other reptiles at the same both, can i sell 300 chameleons as long as i have one bearded dragon and one ball python, were is the rule, if nic sold three other animals besides chameleons is that ok, what is the rule, i bet if all these issues was put up for a vote, and what everyone has allready said on these post it looks like they are against this happening at the shows, read alll the post, and that is all i got to say about that, let the post vote

You heard ???
Well I was there, and have been doing that event for some time now (how many times have been there?) and this past show, there was barely room to walk in the isles. Who ever told you differently, is full of it.

If you want answers as to where the line gets drawn , why dont you stop asking the ppl here and talk with Billy. Visit the Repticon website ...you'll find all the contact info you need. ( I think I even saw that someone posted in this thread as well.)

Vote all you want .... do you think its really going to change anything?
I am all for exclusivity....time to weed out some of the vendors offering poor quality animals to the public !

 

[JMExotics]

that is funny, i heard that the show started off slow, and attendence was down, that was from a vender that was their, and why wont anyone answer what i asked were is the line drawn on who can sell chameleons and other reptiles at the same both, can i sell 300 chameleons as long as i have one bearded dragon and one ball python, were is the rule, if nic sold three other animals besides chameleons is that ok, what is the rule, i bet if all these issues was put up for a vote, and what everyone has allready said on these post it looks like they are against this happening at the shows, read alll the post, and that is all i got to say about that, let the post vote

Of course it may have seemed like it started off slow... Doors didn't open to the public till 10am... THE FIRST HOURS IS JUST FOR VIPS ONLY! Any of the regular vendors would know that. Must have been a new one that told you that.


Attendance down????? Where were these people that told you that?!?! Repticon Has worked VERY HARD to get these shows back up to par from where Tony wrecked them I think they have done quite a good job! It is now the LARGEST SHOW IN THE CAROLINAS and probably the LARGEST in the southeast other than the Daytona show!!!

It has been said many times... You can sell chameleons yes...BUT YOU CAN NOT SPECIALIZE IN THEM! I will assume that there is a limit to how much of a percentage of your stock can be chams though I am not sure.


This past show was our BEST Columbia YET! We came home with only 4 animals we took!!!!!! Attendance down.... I think not!!!!!!

 

[fred tompson]

you should see thier other shows in Fl. like Fort Myers show, and thier Tallahassee Show and you will see what i am talking about, The Columbis show is the only really good show they have, ask other venders about their other fl. shows and see what they tell you.

 

[homegrownherps]

you should see thier other shows in Fl. like Fort Myers show, and thier Tallahassee Show and you will see what i am talking about, The Columbis show is the only really good show they have, ask other venders about their other fl. shows and see what they tell you.

Have you seen thier other shows?

Its funny you only mentioned those two events .... they have sinced dropped both those shows, and have added other locations.

Since we're talking about poor shows....I make more money at the Repticon events then I ever made at the Gila event in Tampa.

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

Have you seen thier other shows?

Its funny you only mentioned those two events .... they have sinced dropped both those shows, and have added other locations.

Since we're talking about poor shows....I make more money at the Repticon events then I ever made at the Gila event in Tampa.

But as you and I discussed on the phone earlier Jim, there are an awful lot of vendors who have the exact opposite opinion. I always do well at Gila's Tampa Show. I have since back when Tony ran it. (actually, Alex really ran it even then). It is all a matter of perspective. I have worked two of the Repticon shows. The now defunct Ft. Myers show and the first Manatee show.

Both were absolute disasters financially and wastes of my time.

Personally, I have always thought Billy was a pretty good guy. That opinion has been negatively colored by some of the back story I have been privy to on his recently announced Tampa Show but that is another issue. However, I have to say that I have a fundamental problem with this exclusivity crap. I really don't care for it with cricket vendors but, since there is really no competitive edge on the one or two products they sell, I can live with it. When it works it's way into a segment of the reptile product line it starts to create a problem. What's next? One colubrid vendor? One turtle vendor? One amphibian vendor? One boid vendor? If someone is willing to pay for a sponsorship, apparently a conditional monopoly is available once the check clears.

A seven or eight vendor show doesn't sound like a lot of fun.

It can be spun as anything they want but the bottom line is that it puts cash in the promoters pocket and eliminates a large part of the competition at the show for the guy with the "exclusive" Stating that it is for the customers is a bunch of crap. The customers want as much variety as they can get. Personally, I have always been a fan of the free market and capitalism in it's purest form. If I can sell a comparable product to the next guys for a lower price, i deserve the sale and he doesn't. That is what the American economy has been built on...free enterprise.

Selling tiny little monopolys sucks. That's my opinion plain and simple

That said, it is Billy's show and he can do what he wants with it but I can assure you that i will never set foot in one of his events again. I just don't care for the way he does business.

 

[homegrownherps]

Every promoter offers exclusive sponsorships, and every promoter plays favorites for one reason or another.

I have heard the same stories of how poorly some of the vendors have done the past few years at the Tampa Gila event ...just talked to one breeder tonight that will no longer vend at that event anymore.

Ever since I started doing that (Tampa - Gila) event some 6-7 years ago, I have noticed a lot of the bigger name breeders/dealers drop out. Unfortunately I wasnt making enough money at that event to continue to vend there.

Now I hear vendors have to pay $80.00 for the electric at that show

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

But Billy is taking it to a level that no one has pushed before. His choice...his show.

The stories about the Repticon disasters are a lot more widespread than anything ever said about Alex's shows Jim. As I explained today, the electric is a Fairgrounds Charge. Billy can bury it in table costs but it is still being paid. His one and only attempt at a Tampa show was a collossal flop. We will have to wait and see how this one goes. It is a shame that he has chosen to dilute the market though in an already trying economic climate.

I guess it is all in how you choose to do business.

 

[Gino]

I agree that some form of exclusivity has gone on at many shows since they began. But what Billy is doing here takes it to a level not seen before.
It's true, he has a legal right to do it. No question on that score.
Unfortunately, I have seen behavior here that is not productive to the reptile community. As John has already said, these economic times are not ripe for an expansion or a blow to free market conditions. I absolutely believe that some of these Repticon actions will hurt all of us down the road. So, while I will not debate his right, I think we all need to ask ourselves: Are they filling their pockets at the expense of the community's long-term survival? I will spend my time and money in a market that has respect for the community I make my living with. Just because someone has the right, doesn't make them right!

 

[hhmoore]

"Mr Tompson": Since you chose not to respond to my PM, I'll ask my next question here...Are you Fred Tompson, Mark Hicks, or somebody else?

 

[eric adrignola]

Hey Gino, how you doing? I last saw you when I dropped off all your A/V stuff at your house after the Tampa Show a long while back (think Tony borrowed it for the "Snake Babe"). I'm pretty sure that was the show you debuted your new album. I was "the only straight guy" working for Tony at the time.

I agree with Gino - no argument on the right and wrong in the business sense. I personally don't like the decision, but it absolutely will not keep me from Repticon shows. In fact, I'd like the chance to do some lectures/presentations at some of the closer ones.

It's very convenient to only drive 1.5 hours as opposed to 5-12 hours. (which, I suspect, is one of the reasons hobbyists are irked - they cannot justify going to Florida to sell their small stock, but a drive of 2 hours or less makes it worthwhile)

I miss getting flown down to Tampa to work the show. I really enjoyed the crowd, and many of the vendors down there were really great. Alas, Alex can think clearly, and has hired responsible, intelligent people he can depend upon - he has no need to fly me down there!

Alex can certainly run a show.

I was working for Tony at his last Columbia "show".
I have been to two or three Repticon shows in Columbia.
Clearly, they are capable of running a show, and doing it well. If only to be able to bring it back from the mess that it was, they deserve lots of credit.
It doesn't mean they are not making a mistake, though. Will be interesting to see.

 

[homegrownherps]

I find it amazing that so many ppl can see into the future, and know that what is going on, is ONLY going to hurt the reptile industry !

I can walk through any show and find much more important things to make issues out of.

"Exclusivity" is ok for suppliers, cricket breeders, caging ....... but not live reptiles?

I think some ppl are just upset because they didnt think of it first

 

[bareptiles]

As for Repticons Florida shows I cant comment. As for the Ga,NC, and SC I was impressed with the showing of people. 2 of those 3 shows were in my top 5 shows ive done. I do alot of shows 40+ a year.

I agree we dont really need to worry about who is who there its the borderline animals that are at some of the shows not just Repticon. I have seeN animals that you know are het for death.

Why does it matter what they have done it only impacts Repticon down the road good or bad. Its their show so let them reap what it becomes.(GOOD OR BAD) I DONT WANT TO SEE ANYTHING BAD BECOME OF THIS BUT WE CANT CONTROL THIS!

Lets face it as vendors we all have our good shows and bad. So if we have a bad show and there we plenty of prospects there whos fault is it we didnt sell. We just didnt do what we wanted that day. If it happens to me at that same show a couple of times I DONT GO BACK!

A for now I do back the show because it is worth my time. I like the people,the vendors, and overall how the show is ran. I personaly see how much Repticon is putting into these events. The things they giveaway to the customers, the shows they do for the kids, and so many other good things going on there. So why bash a business move they feel insures a product at their show.

WE ARE ALL HERE DEFENDING OR ARE AGAINST THIS. THE THING WE SHOULD BE ALL HAMMERING IS OUR GOVERNMENT TRYING TO SMASH ALL OF OUR LOVE, OUR ANIMALS.

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

You and I have been friends too long Jim to let this get personal but your last statement is kind of silly. I seriously doubt that anyone ever gets upset about not being the first one to come up with a fundamentally bad idea.

That said, I have wasted enough time discussing something that isn't worth this much discussion. It's Billy's show and he can do as he pleases...good or bad. The wonderful thing is that those of us who don't like it can vote with our wallets.

Outta here

 

[Gino]

I find it amazing that so many ppl can see into the future, and know that what is going on, is ONLY going to hurt the reptile industry !

That's just a silly statement Jim.
If I drop a coin from my dock, do I really need special powers of seeing into the future to know it will fall into the water? In economics, just as in physics, there are indisputable laws. I taught them at the AP college level. One is called the Law Of Diminishing Returns. It applies here to the extra shows in a market. There is a finite amount of $$ that people in a given area will spend. If you have one show, they will spend most, if not all of it then. If you have 2 shows they will spread it out over 2 shows and so on. I don't have to be a seer to know absolutely that as the shows expand, the money spent at each will decrease. Just look what happened in areas that have monthly shows. When you factor in the worst economy in most of our lifetimes, well... you don't have to be Karnac to predict the result, now do you?

 

[ophidile]

Well this is a pretty interesting debate.

1) While I understand that you are disappointed in not being able to sell your animals as you would like to, Nic, it is Repticon's show and they can make what agreements they like. They are not breaking any laws and they are being polite in their refusal so.
2) They are, at least, supposedly allowing people to sell chams if the vendor has something else, and theoretically Nic could bring other animals to the show and be allowed to sell his chams. Not sure how I feel about this; I always prefer a specialty breeder to a reseller, and it puts a lot of extra hassle on him to either buy animals he may not end up selling, or to find someone willing to partner with him and let him sell their animals.
3) I would not likely buy at a show I knew was excluding extra people from selling the animals I'm interested in. I do find it a little sketchy that repticon is not up-front about this arrangement, stating it clearly on their website or vender TOS, but instead Nic only finds out about it after applying and sending in his money. To me that implies they are trying to keep this deal on the down-low because they know people would be less interested in buying.
4) apparently this deal was originally made to ensure there was a specialty breeder of chams rather than exclude other specialty breeders of chams. But this doesn't quite make sense to me; if the goal is to attract specialty breeders and offer diversity, I should think there would be plenty of other methods than excluding other breeders. Maybe offer discounts, or guarantee their regular breeder a special spot and extra advertising.

I don't go to this show and I am not nearby, but I hope repticon rethinks this policy.

 

[Seamus Haley]

One is called the Law Of Diminishing Returns. It applies here to the extra shows in a market. There is a finite amount of $$ that people in a given area will spend. If you have one show, they will spend most, if not all of it then. If you have 2 shows they will spread it out over 2 shows and so on. I don't have to be a seer to know absolutely that as the shows expand, the money spent at each will decrease. Just look what happened in areas that have monthly shows. When you factor in the worst economy in most of our lifetimes, well... you don't have to be Karnac to predict the result, now do you?

The economic law of diminishing returns assumes some degree of exclusivity as to the source of the now divided product. This isn't going to be the case with reptile shows- your statements and the conclusion drawn assume that the only reptile dollars spent will be divided evenly among the shows available in a given area and this simply doesn't hold true.

To accurately predict any result, you'd need to take into account permanent local businesses as well as sources which are geographically distant that can ship. Then calculate or poll the actual preferences of the local buyers for the methods they'd use to purchase an animal and the sources that they would look to. Then you need to factor in the seasonal surges associated with breeding efforts...

Local markets certainly can become saturated if there are too many shows too often. The consumers in the area do have some dollar limit budgeted for animal purchases. It's still a gross oversimplification to simply divide the financial potential of a local market by the number of shows per year. Two shows doesn't automatically mean half the profitability of a single show is applied to each event.

 

[chequepoint]

I think everyone can agree to the basic points.

• It's Repticon's shows, and they can do what they want
• FL Chams is seizing an opportunity that any business minded person would.
• It's bad for the consumer,anti-competitive, and will most likely continue to happen.

There isn't anything else to say. It seems like an outrage now, it will eventually become the norm. One "Big" breeder for every major type of animal forming the anchor points for a show, with the other tables filled with hobbyists. This way the big breeders can continue to produce quality animals, without worrying so much that the next person they sell to is going to be the next clown trying to tear the bottom out of the market. Repticon will have a guaranteed number of vendors with lots of quality animals, and well designed booths to make their show look great. Sure the vocal minority will be grumpy for a while, but the bulk of the public won't even notice.

In fact, all this thread has done is let other big vendors know that there is a possibility with enough cash to be exclusive for Repticon. The bar has been set. It's also going to open the possibility for other show promoters to adopt this tactic. Welcome to the new game.

 

[Gino]

Actually you can accurately predict the trend, which is what I've done.
I have not assumed to attempt to assign specific $$ amounts, and yes, there are other factors, if you want to predict specific results.
The trend evaluation is valid. We are dealing with a rather limited industry.
The elasticity of the products makes this more predictable because reptiles are not essentials, and therefore are more vulnerable to the declining economic conditions. In a growing economy, expansion could actually lead to an overall growth in the reptile market due to factors such as increased visibility, impulse purchases, and new entrants into the field. If these were the present conditions, you would be correct in your statements. These factors do not exist in 2009. I think you would be hard pressed to find many companies expanding at this particular point in time. (in the same market) Any economist will tell you that, in order to survive this particular place in the business cycle, you must consider the following strategies:
Limit your overall expenditures
Contract your business, all the while positioning yourself to take advantage of the growth that will surely come on the other side.

For us, that means less, more profitable shows is the promising model.
If you can sell x at 3 shows or x at 8 shows, you are better off with 3.
It limits your liability in both costs and opportunity costs, such as your time. (of course, really the other things you would do with that time ie; family, hobby, other income ventures)

If you want to see an example of how we've all been effected by it already, look at the impact of the growing number of ways outside of shows people can get reptiles. Before mail order was so easy all of the shows did better. Now there are so many other ways for the herper to get his "fix". It's really not that complicated.

In an area, like Tampa. a third show will stretch these factors to a point of diminishing returns. Honestly, in these economic times, 2 shows might be too many.

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

Agreed Seamus but the variables you cited merely dilute the effect, they don't negate it.

The hypothesis that more shows in a given market will logically decrease the amount spent at each still holds true

 

[Gino]

Let me just add to my last post. You are correct in exact numbers. I never said that the decline would be half for each show if you add one. I understand the factors you talk about. And I agree, to a point. I'm not arguing it's an even division per show. I'm simply pointing out that it will diminish with each show, to what extent isn't the issue, nor have I attempted to quantify that here.