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[Southern Wolf]

On top of that, I've been threatened with physical violence by a few people that are definitely close enough to act on it - why make things easier for them?

And this is the point Im trying to make. I piss off convicted murderers, drug dealers, and gang bangers daily. Sadly its part of the job because they couldnt follow the rules of society to begin with. On our uniforms it has first initial and last name. Now its not that hard to figure out my first name. Everyone there knows Im into snakes. They all think Im crazy and I use it to my advantage.

All you have to do is type in my name and reptiles and now you have found Fauna.... and now fauna wants to list my location. Yeah.... lets make it easier for folks to find us.

For me... I have nothing to hide becuase of my business. Im running it legally and honestly... .I have to... Im a federal employee. If you doubt this ask Catherine. Everyone here knows I can take good photos. I could have taken very good photos of animals that Catherine wanted.... Instead I showed their worst side... and I lost the sale. Oh well... Im honest in my business.

Im also overly cautious about my safety because of where I work. Yes I know I can be found.... but I dont have to make it easier for them to find me. I dont keep a home phone for this reason.

 

[Lucille]

Rich

We love your site

We want to help

And we ARE, most of us, doing what you have requested, for the good of all of us.

We're just talking about it. You know perfectly well that if we all silently complied with a new change you initiated, you would probably have a heart attack.

I put in my location. Just don't ask for a picture before my first cup of coffee

 

[Southern Wolf]

Rich is trying to make things difficult for those who would want to hide their location for dishonest reasons not to make things difficult for those of us who are honest private hermits.

But how do you know what they put in is their actual location. I could put in ANY city in the state of AR and you wouldnt know the difference.

What Rich is doing is taking those of us that are honest and value our privacy and making us liars. Either we go against what is ingrained inside of us or we just pick a city and list it.

How are you gonna police this. With the massive amount of membership here... .your not.


I'll give you an example. Take all the scammers from Africa. The list local locations to start thier scam off.... how is this solving that? If your dishonest.... your gonna lie anyways.

This is like taking the guns out of law abiding citizens hands... .the criminals are still going to get them. Your not hurting the criminals with that law. Same with this one. If your dishonest to begin with... your not gonna think twice about putting in a location that is not true.

 

[Southern Wolf]

I doubt most of you have gotten even a fraction of the threats I have received. But certainly my address can be found with a minimum of effort. But I make it a point to let people know I am armed, do not welcome surprise visits, and no one can even see my place without trespassing on my property. I actually did have someone show up here once unannounced. Said he just asked around for the "guy with all the snakes". Well, I met him in the walk to my front porch, with a gun on my hip, and when he stated his business, I told him to just leave. I was not running a zoo here. And I didn't do business from the premises.

Sorry guys, but I can't do this alone. If the good guys aren't willing to do their part trying to make it difficult for the bad guys, then honestly, why should I put out the effort? How else am I supposed to make if difficult for the bad guys without trying to drag them out into the light and make it difficult for them to hide under the rocks? Seriously do you THINK I want to do all the work I do behind the scenes trying my best to make this a safe haven for the good guys? Heck, if the majority think it is a waste of time, or too much trouble for them to assist me with, I certainly can follow suit myself and quit with my own efforts. Do you think it's just an accident, for instance, that spammers have ceased to exist here?

Yeah, you just might be going out on a limb here by providing the city or town you live in. Gee, like I haven't been going out on a limb all along with the BOI.... But how else are the bad guys going to be defeated?

Rich... the bad guys will just lie about where the live. Its what bad guys do... they lie to get what they want. Something like lying about where they live wont stop them..... they probably already put in a false location anyways.

 

[WebSlave]

But how do you know what they put in is their actual location. I could put in ANY city in the state of AR and you wouldnt know the difference.

Nope, we won't. And we advise anyone considering doing business with someone who is in a location different from what is listed here to think twice about it.

What Rich is doing is taking those of us that are honest and value our privacy and making us liars. Either we go against what is ingrained inside of us or we just pick a city and list it.

So when someone wants to buy from you (whether it is real or just trying to get the location from you) what information do you give them for them to send you a money order?

How are you gonna police this. With the massive amount of membership here... .your not.

We will make reasonable efforts. If someone points out a discrepancy with the location listed on this site and the location they are asked to do business with a member, then we will have cause to police it. It is pretty much up to the members here to raise suspicions if the locations don't match. THEY need to ask, "Why is this person trying to hide their location, and should I consider doing business with someone else who is not trying to do so?"

If you are doing business and ship merchandise and/or animals to or from a location, then you HAVE to have a valid location in order to do this. Someone who wants to find your address can just as easily pretend to be a customer and get that information in that manner as they could finding it here.

I'll give you an example. Take all the scammers from Africa. The list local locations to start thier scam off.... how is this solving that? If your dishonest.... your gonna lie anyways.

Nope, that's not how it goes. Their IP addresses don't match the location they offer, and at registration they simply get rejected. There are some geographical locations that I just reject out of hand, even if they tell me they are from Nigeria or China, for instance. This can also be checked after the fact if they registered before I got strict about this requirement. With the IP address verification, I do have to give some wiggle room, because not all ISPs are going to be in the same town that someone resides or does business in. But I try to make reasonable decisions about what is credible.

This is like taking the guns out of law abiding citizens hands... .the criminals are still going to get them. Your not hurting the criminals with that law. Same with this one. If your dishonest to begin with... your not gonna think twice about putting in a location that is not true.

 

[WebSlave]

Rich... the bad guys will just lie about where the live. Its what bad guys do... they lie to get what they want. Something like lying about where they live wont stop them..... they probably already put in a false location anyways.

Yes, they do. Which is why I am putting in this requirement so we can try to catch them at it. If there were no requirement, then we would have no cause to check on that information.

 

[Southern Wolf]

So when someone wants to buy from you (whether it is real or just trying to get the location from you) what information do you give them for them to send you a money order?

I dont do money orders for the general public.... I have an add to cart button on my website...and you submit payment that way.

 

[Southern Wolf]

So if someone has a better idea on how to do this (without causing ME more work than I am already doing), then please let me know.

Actually I do. The goal is to keep the bad guys off the site correct? And to keep them from ripping off Fauna's members correct?


Then make it so noone can lock a classified ad and allow us to post links to threads in the BOI.

It could be something as simple

check out their bad guy thread <insert link>
Check out their info thread <insert link>
Check out their good guy thread <insert link>

Im even willing to type up a templete that you can sticky and folks can go by. It would have text in there discouraging discussions and the fact the link was posted as INFO only to educated the members.

You want to limit the bad guys scamming the fauna members.... then make it so they cant scam them. Your not liable.. .your staff is not posting these.... just the members that frequent the BOI.

 

[hhmoore]

I've already notified a bunch of people about this policy...so far, I've gotten resistance from one person that spelled his city incorrectly. He basically said it isn't that far off, and people will figure it out...however, there are multiple Google hits on the incorrect spelling, so it could cause some confusion.
My response was that I had asked him to comply with the policy of this site, is this really an issue he wants to dig his heels in on? Is it really worth it, when he's not going to "win" anyway?

 

[hhmoore]

Not everybody that locks their ads does so because they are are "scammers".
I do it semiregularly because I don't want people posting random crap in my ads, trying to negotiate publicly, etc. Every one of my ads includes the statement:
Contact me via PM, or email: (email included), but that doesn't stop people from posting in my ads. Locking them saves me the work of having to delete and repost my ads to keep them clear of such clutter.

 

[Southern Wolf]

Not everybody that locks their ads does so because they are are "scammers".
I do it semiregularly because I don't want people posting random crap in my ads, trying to negotiate publicly, etc. Every one of my ads includes the statement:
Contact me via PM, or email: (email included), but that doesn't stop people from posting in my ads. Locking them saves me the work of having to delete and repost my ads to keep them clear of such clutter.

Your right... not everybody that does is a scammer. But not everybody that wants to protect at least some part of their identiy is a scammer either.

So if you punish those of us that are legit with having us put in a location.. then why not punish those that are legit by not letting them lock their ads.

by allowing us to inform people of shady folks selling on here,that would be a whole lot more effective than telling folks they have to list a location.

Case in point. Someone that showed their true colors on the BOI tried to scam one of my customers. I contacted them privately and told them about the thread and let them make up their own mind. My customer thanked me and said he cancelled his order.

Now if we were allowed to do that openly... chances are a lot of other people may not have fallen for it either.

I did my job.... I protected one of my customers. I didn't make a sale out of it. I did it for customer service. Plan and simple. In the future if I have what he wants.. maybe he will come back.

 

[WebSlave]

Actually I do. The goal is to keep the bad guys off the site correct? And to keep them from ripping off Fauna's members correct?


Then make it so noone can lock a classified ad and allow us to post links to threads in the BOI.

It could be something as simple

check out their bad guy thread <insert link>
Check out their info thread <insert link>
Check out their good guy thread <insert link>

Im even willing to type up a templete that you can sticky and folks can go by. It would have text in there discouraging discussions and the fact the link was posted as INFO only to educated the members.

You want to limit the bad guys scamming the fauna members.... then make it so they cant scam them. Your not liable.. .your staff is not posting these.... just the members that frequent the BOI.

Nope. I already crossed this bridge when I set up the classifieds. Half of the people wanted their ads locked to not have replies, and the other half wanted them open so they could answer a question ONCE there within the ad and not have to field a dozen PMs or emails answering that same question over and over again. So the best compromise was to allow THEM to choose how they want to do their own ads.

Sorry, but it is up to prospective customers to do their own homework about who they want to do business with. The tools are available, they just need to make the effort.

And no, the goal is NOT to keep bad guys off of this site. That is impossible to do. The goal is to give members as many tools as possible to be able to make rational and informed decisions about who to do business with. Requiring members to provide valid identifying information is only one of those tools offered to try to reach that goal.

 

[WebSlave]

Your right... not everybody that does is a scammer. But not everybody that wants to protect at least some part of their identiy is a scammer either.

So if you punish those of us that are legit with having us put in a location.. then why not punish those that are legit by not letting them lock their ads.

by allowing us to inform people of shady folks selling on here,that would be a whole lot more effective than telling folks they have to list a location.

Case in point. Someone that showed their true colors on the BOI tried to scam one of my customers. I contacted them privately and told them about the thread and let them make up their own mind. My customer thanked me and said he cancelled his order.

Now if we were allowed to do that openly... chances are a lot of other people may not have fallen for it either.

I did my job.... I protected one of my customers. I didn't make a sale out of it. I did it for customer service. Plan and simple. In the future if I have what he wants.. maybe he will come back.

Calm down, fellah, No one is being punished. You have an interesting perspective of this to label it as such, I must admit....

 

[Southern Wolf]

Calm down, fellah, No one is being punished. You have an interesting perspective of this to label it as such, I must admit....

I've got to keep it interesting... or else I wouldnt be me.

Im just trying to get you to see this from all angles.. and why some may think its a bad idea.

I already know Im not gonna change your mind.. .but I can at least voice my concerns.

 

[Wraith]

I can understand your point of view...but how is Rich supposed to know exactly how each individual intends to use the site? Both the BOI and the Classifieds are huge elements of the site as a whole, and I can completely understand the need to make those fields mandatory.

So when someone wants to buy from you (whether it is real or just trying to get the location from you) what information do you give them for them to send you a money order?

I have no intention of buying anything from anyone on this site nor selling to anyone on this site. When I want to buy reptiles I perfer to buy in person at shows. Because I have no intention of ever using the "classified" section of this website I would NOT be giving anyone my location to start with because I would not be providing nor receiving any form of payment. I certainly should NOT have to open myself up to stalkers or put myself at risk simply because I have no intention of making full use of this site.

Sorry, but it is up to prospective customers to do their own homework about who they want to do business with. The tools are available, they just need to make the effort.

So if someone has a better idea on how to do this (without causing ME more work than I am already doing), then please let me know.

Simple.
Make it a requirement for anyone posting ads on the classifieds to provide their location in their post (if they chose not to provide it in their profile). People posting to the classifieds who fail to provide a location get their post deleted when someone reports it to a mod. You already have that kind of system in place for the BOI with the "full name required to post or it gets deleted" so that people are forced to "own their own words". Let the customers do their own homework about who to do business with as you already want them to do - the discussion forums are not the place to do business. The users of the discussion forums need NOT follow the BOI rule nor would users of the discussion forums need to follow the classified ad rule if it was done that way.

There is another forum I like to visit that uses that type of system already..the classifieds require a location while discussion forums do not. Specifically they state "If it's not part of your user profile already, you must explicitly state your location in the classified." While I don't sell stuff there, I do on rare occasions buy from users there if it's something impossible for me to get locally. I will not bother to entertain the idea of contacting anyone about their ad if they do not have their location listed and will report them instead. I also am very careful to do my homework and only provide my address information after they have already given me their address with which to mail them payment via USPS priority mail. Actually they don't ever know my address until the day they get my payment as I have a letter included with the money order and where to ship my purchase.

 

[Wraith]

I agree Rich... It's a wonderful Idea! Keep up the good work making this site better and better Why should people who are honest want to hide where they are from?

Definitely agree that it's a great step to take.
I don't see why anyone should have a problem with providing their real name and location even if they are just using the site for casual social chit chat. Protection through anonymity is one thing but it sadly seems that most that like to hide the simple info such as real name or general location just have something more to hide.

What the hell does my location or anyone's location have to do with social chit chat or answering someone's question or posting a joke or a news article or anything else that goes on in the DISCUSSION forums? Location has NOTHING to do with any of it and has NOTHING to do with honesty or lack there of. The discussion forums are NOT the classifieds where people are attempting conduct business and where ones location does play a part.

 

[chamgirl99471]

Getting a little defensive there aren't we?

I can understand why someone in a small town wouldn't want to put their city but what if they just stated, as Kevin has, that they are from whatever part of the state they are in. I don't see what the big deal is if you tell the state you are from. It's interesting to see where people are from and to meet different herpers from your specific area to discuss things.

I don't allow people to come to my house to do business and I myself am also armed to the tee I don't have much of a collection but Yes... my privacy is important to me seeing as I have two young boys and don't want people just showing up at my doorstep to take a look at what I have. I however am not going to hide what city I live in though I can understand completely why Kevin would.

And Yes.. Kevin was very honest with the pictures he took and did lose a sale at this point but I wouldn't hesitate to do business with him in the future when he has what I am looking for only because he was completely honest and upfront.

I myself have done the same thing Kevin did and notified a customer or two of possible scams that they were inquiring about. It's not a full proof plan but it will help to eliminate a lot of scammers from showing up here. It's still completely up to us to take the precautions we need to take to not get scammed.

 

[Southern Wolf]

Getting a little defensive there aren't we?

I can understand why someone in a small town wouldn't want to put their city but what if they just stated, as Kevin has, that they are from whatever part of the state they are in. I don't see what the big deal is if you tell the state you are from.

HAD!!! ... I'd much rather put it back the way it was though.

 

[chamgirl99471]

Well... when I responded.. it still stated the area.. sorry... I can understand completely why some wouldn't want to put their city in but it is Rich's decision We can complain all we want.. LOL... He's made this site an awesome place to visit and he's working hard to keep it that way.

 

[Southern Wolf]

Im just trying to offer a different view point... as to why some may not want to do it.