Rick Sisco - Sisco Reptiles

[hum707]

Yeah, it's a bit like you disappearing for a while when i asked this one:






I'm running out of prizes.

Sounds like they need to go to south America together and do some research.
Maybe while they are there they can kiss and make up! I don't bicker with my wife as bad as these two do!

 

[DaveyFig]

I decided to do some tegu research on my own since I am thinking of putting together a small breeding group of my own, and I emailed Ron St. Pierre to ask him about these, since that is were they (supposedly) came from originally.

The reply I got was extremely helpful and very interesting. It does explain some things. Basically, the St. Pierre's worked with four different "color varieties" (for lack of a better term) of Black & White Tegus.

1. Normal - average, not much white, males got about 4'

2. Chacoan - original breeding stock came from Bert, and the founding male was very large. In the second year of producing them, they noticed the animals had more white on the heads than normal B & W's, the best were held back, and this was the start of the "Chacoan" strain, in which some of the tegus were a bit larger than average (averaged about 4.5' for males but a couple were even bigger). The explanation for the name "Chacoan" is quite interesting: "The difference between these babies and our normals were like comparing and average California kingsnake to a Desert phase california kingsnake (hence why Ron picked the name Chacoan to describe them as in Chacoan desert even though black and whites do not occur in the desert areas - bad name choice for range but good for color"

3. White Headed - These were simply exceptional, high white Chacoans. These could be up to 50% white. The amount of white they would have could not be determined until they were about 18", and average size for males was, again, 4.5'. Apparantly, right around the same time a bunch of tegus from Paraguay were imported that had a lot of white on them, and importers and wholesalers called them whatever they wanted to and marketed them as such.

4. White headed laced - bright white heads with a laced pattern. These animals were given away as pets so the line probably does not exist any longer.

Kelli, thank you so much for that post. It is very enlightening.
I wish it had been posted by Bobby though. I really do think he is an awesome guy, and deserves a lot of respect for what he has done with Tegus. I don't know the first thing about tegus, so my questions for him really were to educate myself, and I had hoped that he could clear some stuff up too. It is a shame that he didn't
From your post, I gather that "Chacoan" is just a phase, not a locality. The example of kingsnakes helps quite a bit with that. I guess it is like desert ghost balls.
If the guy that Bobby got his Tegus from really did get them from Ron, they still aren't from Chaco. Am I reading that right too? They are labeled Chacoan, but that has nothing to do with where they are from, and that's IF the guy he got them from got them from Ron. If they didn't come from Ron, they are not only not from Chaco, but can't even be called Chacoan Phase?
White Headed Chacoans are White headed chacoans, whether they come from Chaco plains, and whether they are big or not. Yes? No? Anyone?
It seems there are 2 types of Chacoans. Neither is accurate, but both names are legit. Rick has a group from one of those types, and Bobby may have some of the other type, as long as his supplier got them from Ron, but that isn't 100%.

 

[Mike P.]

Excuse my ignorance, but I'm not very good at these multiple quote things, however a couple things have caught my attention in the last 15 pages or so, and plese feel free to correct me If I'm wrong...

Getting back to when Kelli posed the question of where you got these Tegus from, there was a reply that they were from a breeder in which you did not want to drag into this - The assumption by Kelli was that they were from Ron, in which you neither admitted to, nor denied - But later posted that these were sold to you 3rd hand correct ?

And again someone please correct me if I am wrong, however these have only been produced in one generation so far, and the offspring to these "Giants" are only one year old - So have the genetics been proven ? - Anyone whose kept Tegu's knows damn well that they grow Very Fast like a weed - Coloration aside again, have these "Giants" been proven genetic ?

This thread would have and should have been over a long time ago, however you came in and stirred the pot, without mixing and now it's getting a little hot for you to handle - You dodge and avoid a few simple questions, and throw a little tizzy "sp", when they are posed to you...

You yourself opened this door, and now want it to all go away, however you know vey well that what's posted on the BOI, Stays on the BOI - Go back and read what you typed in at post #50 - You should have stuck to your guns right then and there...

I am done with you and this thread, you are not even close to being worth my time. People can see the truth here, it is very bold in your actions and words.

 

[Mike P.]

That would be "please", and "very" if you didn't catch that

 

[ravensgait]

LOL yeah seems the barn door got left open a few days ago and now he wants to close it.. To late that horsey is in the next county by now Bobby. You may want this thread to go away but you know how that goes here, people have questions they want answered and until they get bored or some new juicy tidbit happens along they are like sharks with the smell of blood in the water. The really sad thing is that it is your blood Bobby..Randy

 

[Wolfy-hound]

Yeah, it's a bit like you disappearing for a while when i asked this one:






I'm running out of prizes.

Actually, I thought you asked Rick that, since his ball pythons were brought up right about then. If you'd put my name on it I would have responded then.
In fact, you can't prove my ball pythons didn't come from australia. I always disprove whatever you come up with. I can say that ball python record was for a different ball python, and and that my ball python was really secretly shipped over.
It's scientific method, you can't prove a negative. In real life, you can get close, as in, you could find evidance by tracing the paperwork back to the breeder, to the egg it hatched from. But I can always say it's a snake that is nearly identical.

I've been reading, but I only post when I feel I can contribute. But then, redirecting the thread away from lies and the fact that questions were never answered is one of your things, isn't it?
Why don't you post the "beating a dead horse" thing? It seems to work so well for distracting folks from the lack of facts.

 

[snake5007]

Actually, I thought you asked Rick that, since his ball pythons were brought up right about then. If you'd put my name on it I would have responded then.
In fact, you can't prove my ball pythons didn't come from australia. I always disprove whatever you come up with. I can say that ball python record was for a different ball python, and and that my ball python was really secretly shipped over.
It's scientific method, you can't prove a negative. In real life, you can get close, as in, you could find evidance by tracing the paperwork back to the breeder, to the egg it hatched from. But I can always say it's a snake that is nearly identical.

I've been reading, but I only post when I feel I can contribute. But then, redirecting the thread away from lies and the fact that questions were never answered is one of your things, isn't it?
Why don't you post the "beating a dead horse" thing? It seems to work so well for distracting folks from the lack of facts.

Considering export and import to and from Australia is illegal, and that they come from Africa, you'd have a hard time proving the positive on that one. I have an issue with you basically saying that you'd lie to cover it up. It makes me think of a few posts you've made in this thread.

 

[KelliH]

From your post, I gather that "Chacoan" is just a phase, not a locality.

That's right.

If the guy that Bobby got his Tegus from really did get them from Ron, they still aren't from Chaco. Am I reading that right too? They are labeled Chacoan, but that has nothing to do with where they are from, and that's IF the guy he got them from got them from Ron. If they didn't come from Ron, they are not only not from Chaco, but can't even be called Chacoan Phase?

That is also correct.

It seems there are 2 types of Chacoans. Neither is accurate, but both names are legit. Rick has a group from one of those types, and Bobby may have some of the other type, as long as his supplier got them from Ron, but that isn't 100%.

Right, there are the "White Heads" and the regular phase "Chacoans".

 

[RJK890]

Quote:
From your post, I gather that "Chacoan" is just a phase, not a locality.

Quote: Kelly
That's right.

Quote:
If the guy that Bobby got his Tegus from really did get them from Ron, they still aren't from Chaco. Am I reading that right too? They are labeled Chacoan, but that has nothing to do with where they are from, and that's IF the guy he got them from got them from Ron. If they didn't come from Ron, they are not only not from Chaco, but can't even be called Chacoan Phase?

Quote: Kelly
That is also correct.

Quote:
It seems there are 2 types of Chacoans. Neither is accurate, but both names are legit. Rick has a group from one of those types, and Bobby may have some of the other type, as long as his supplier got them from Ron, but that isn't 100%.

Quote: Kelly
Right, there are the "White Heads" and the regular phase "Chacoans".

So it turns out that Katie may have actually purchased a "true Chacoan" from Rick, and be looking forward to purchasing what may be a "fake Chacoan" from Bobby in the future. Not by locality, but by the "Chacoan" name given by Ron to the "White Heads," which Ricks are, and Bobbys may or may not be? Is that right?

Originally Posted by snake5007:
Damn, it looks like we've got another "most ironic post of the week!" competition winner.

You know David Blair, you are to Bobby what Bud and Bruce are to Mr. Clark. You jump to his defense with off the wall post's when he is being questioned not attacked and you actually do more harm than good.

 

[Wolfy-hound]

Actually, nice try. I did not say I WOULD lie, I said I COULD. There's a large difference. It's not me that's been proven to have told lies. I don't have to prove my ball pythons came from australia, I said you couldn't prove a negative, it has nothing to do with proving a postive. The fact that you cannot grasp that concept tells a lot more about you.
And none of it changes the facts and lack of answers in the thread. Why don't you ask relevant questions? Oh yes.. you would rather not.

 

[SPJ]

Right, there are the "White Heads" and the regular phase "Chacoans".

I find it rather interesting that a "leopard gecko" breeder explained the tegus better than the "tegu" breeders.

This now seems that there has been this long fight over nothing since the term Chacoan has nothing to do with the Chaco region and it seems both have Chacoan animals but just different variations.

 

[KelliH]

Actually it was really easy to find out; I just emailed the St. Pierre's.

 

[Seamus Haley]

I find it rather interesting that a "leopard gecko" breeder explained the tegus better than the "tegu" breeders.

This now seems that there has been this long fight over nothing since the term Chacoan has nothing to do with the Chaco region and it seems both have Chacoan animals but just different variations.

Not so surprising if you say that the herpetologist explained it better than the illiterate with the personal grudge and something to hide.

Rick did seem to answer most questions put to him in as straightforward a manner as possible given the unknowns surrounding the collection point, so it's not a reflection on him.

Bobby... Well, Bobby's credibility has been flushed. Between the lies, the evasions and the apparant poor grasp of the physiology and biology of the animals he wants to claim expertise with... He set out to stomp on Rick's reputation and it backfired. HARD.

 

[snake5007]

You know David Blair, you are to Bobby what Bud and Bruce are to Mr. Clark. You jump to his defense with off the wall post's when he is being questioned not attacked and you actually do more harm than good.

It's not the fact that it's Bobby that bothers me. Don't you know that it's hypocritical to accuse someone of trolling when you are one yourself? It's also hypocritical to suggest that someone's a hypocrite (regardless of whether they are or not) whilst being a hypocrite yourself.

 

[snake5007]

Actually, nice try. I did not say I WOULD lie, I said I COULD. There's a large difference. It's not me that's been proven to have told lies. I don't have to prove my ball pythons came from australia, I said you couldn't prove a negative, it has nothing to do with proving a postive. The fact that you cannot grasp that concept tells a lot more about you.
And none of it changes the facts and lack of answers in the thread. Why don't you ask relevant questions? Oh yes.. you would rather not.

Actually, you lied when you said that you missed my question because it didn't have your name on it. BOTH times when i asked it you disappeared shortly afterwards. I also saw you reading this thread shortly before you did. I'd also like to know what a captive bred ball python from Australia has to do with a locality form of tegu? Seeing as that was what the argument was about, why would you use Australia as an example?


If in fact you were talking about a locality ball python from Australia ( which you weren't ), then i wouldn't have to prove anything.

 

[chondrogal]

When everything is all said and done I don't see anything here that would prevent me from purchasing a Tegu from Rick Sisco if I was looking for one. Looks like a seller that works pretty hard to make his customers happy with good customer support after the sales.

 

[Wolfy-hound]

Actually, you lied when you said that you missed my question because it didn't have your name on it. BOTH times when i asked it you disappeared shortly afterwards. I also saw you reading this thread shortly before you did. I'd also like to know what a captive bred ball python from Australia has to do with a locality form of tegu? Seeing as that was what the argument was about, why would you use Australia as an example?


If in fact you were talking about a locality ball python from Australia ( which you weren't ), then i wouldn't have to prove anything.

Once again, you are wrong. Does it get tiresome? I did not say I "missed" your question, I said I assumed you were asking Rick, not me.
It's a example question about the scientific method of not proving a negative. I could have used a coffee cup from angola, or a necktie from New York.
I also wonder that you continue to try to divert the attention away from Bobby's lies, and unanswered questions. You learned well from him. What exactly have you contributed to this thread in facts?

 

[Lucille]

Since I have just this year acquired tegus, I have been following with interest the discussion of the differences and variances between some of them. Some here in this discussion have taken the time to acquire actual information, and post it here and it is enlightening info.
And, there are some beautiful tegu pix posted.
I think for some, redirection and ad hominem attacks have risen to almost an art form, so that the actual issues cannot be addressed. It seems intentional.

 

[Chameleon Company]

I think for some, redirection and ad hominem attacks have risen to almost an art form, so that the actual issues cannot be addressed. It seems intentional.

Well, I am scratching my head here. Not to sound too base, but the BOI "is what it is", and what it "is" most of the time are allegations about character, pro and con. In this thread, the issue was the attack by one member on the integrity of another, with the expected "back at'cha". I believe that was the "actual issue", that someone was being called a liar, cheat, and thief, etc., and that there was or was not merit in the allegations. Didn't see much art in this one either.

 

[snake5007]

Once again, you are wrong. Does it get tiresome? I did not say I "missed" your question, I said I assumed you were asking Rick, not me.
It's a example question about the scientific method of not proving a negative. I could have used a coffee cup from angola, or a necktie from New York.
I also wonder that you continue to try to divert the attention away from Bobby's lies, and unanswered questions. You learned well from him. What exactly have you contributed to this thread in facts?

No, but you apparently missed your user name being attached to it.

You still haven't answered how your example was relevant to this situation. I didn't ask what other examples could have been used.

Wonder away, because i can't divert attention from someone who isn't here to post in the first place.

The fact that your example was crummy and irrelevant, maybe?