Bad Guy Robert Ringhoff of PA,

[fuzzylogix]

Robert, please explain the difference in weight and why you sent snakes of a different sex than agreed upon.

 

[SuperMorph]

Again with robert's mis-direction. robert, explain the difference in weight like people are asking. Why don't you post the numbers that you are using to calculate the weight? I said in a previous post that payment was delayed a week and you didn't have a problem with that. I didn't threaten anything to happen by a certain Friday, if I did, provide the proof! Who wants animals shipped on a Friday??? What happened to Wednesday and Thursday? If I am unemployed, then I can pick them up any day. Making fun of me for getting laid off just shows more of your ill character. I am sure I would be better off sitting next to a broken tow truck blaming my wife for everything. Where are the rest of the pics of the pastels and everything else you supposedly sent to me?

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Usually the victom is not the one who gets attacked. As far as I can tell none of my 'evidence' has been disproven, only that some say there hasn't been anything posted as evidence yet and they have not said what counts as evidence.

I want to talk a little about the boldface above.

Jason, I ask you to bear with me for a second and try to understand I'm not attacking you but I do want to point out a few things and ask a couple more questions.

It's not the first time someone has posted a topic that isn't cut and dry and easy for all to know with certainty who is telling the truth. If there was even just a little more of a email exchange instead of all the phone calls going back and forth, it would have been a lot more help to the readers.

Most of the time in situations like this by the time everyone is done hashing out their positions the readers can pick out the inconsistencies and have better feel for who is telling the truth.

I don't mind telling you this and you really shouldn't be offended but I'm having a hard time with both of you from what is posted.

I would however like to ask about the first PayPal claim that you stated you made and how that unfolded. In your posts you stated that you filed a claim with paypal before he even sent the snakes due to a missed ship date. Did you tell him you were canceling the deal or did you just issue a dispute?

I know he was aware of it before he sent the snakes but nothing was stated that you actually canceled the deal just that he was informed by paypal that the funds were frozen. You then stated you thought he screwed you over because of the paypal investigation. I really want to know how you decide to cancel this deal before you were aware of anything wrong with the package you received.

Most people would inform the seller that they were canceling the transaction and there really wasn't anything concrete stated here. Also, what was the time between the paypal payment to the first claim for your funds back?

I'm just going to point out a few things just so you understand where someone reading this might find some more difficulties from both sides here.
I hope you understand.

The only written proof provided is really just the small email exchange supplied by both of you. Only a few things can be determined from that exchange.

One, the agreed to snakes which isn't in question here.

Two, that you wanted pictures. There has been a lot stated about those pictures before they were even posted. The bottom-line about the quality and everything else about the pictures comes down to that you were satisfied enough with them to go ahead with the purchase. You talked about how crappy they were and all but you still excepted them.

The last thing the email shows is that you may be hurting for funds purchasing this deal. It really may be misleading and not even relevant but it's something someone might take into consideration when they have so little to determine who is telling the truth.

I am going to have to move fast with the males to
get some of my money back to pay some bills and get a rodent food order put in.

Next, when posting threads like this it is very important that you state everything accurately. All we have to go on is your word. When one starts seeing some inconsistencies in posts it also sends flags up for the readers.
Which brings me back to the pictures. Now, I know they aren't the greatest pictures in the world but they certainly aren't the worst I have seen. There was also another inconsistency with the pictures tho.

In your second post you stated,

Only one pic showed the snake and the weight.

Well, that simply wasn't true. When you finally were able to get the pictures loaded the first post had four pictures and three had the weights clearly visible. It may seem small but when you have a thread where all anyone has to rely on is how truthful and accurate you present the evidence, it is important.

Now that doesn't mean he didn't scam you but it does go to the evidence in this thread. I should say lack of evidence because mainly the honesty of the two parties here is all we really have as evidence.

Now, I don't really buy the weights posted by the target of this thread. That's just my opinion on looking at it.

I really still wasn't sure either way if he did send the snakes and they were all just smaller but I have some feelings on it. Considering your first thought was he was scamming you because you did the first claim with Paypal and his desire in some of his posts to show how careless you were in your purchase. To me that is a little telling about the situation.

Robert, Why would you point out his carelessness in purchasing from you when your trying to show doubt that you didn't scam him? Doesn't make much sense. I know if I was trying to show I was a upstanding person and didn't cheat someone, I wouldn't be describing their purchase as a careless It seems to me one would only think of describing the buyers transaction with you as a careless one if you had those thoughts before the thread. if your thinking that way maybe you thought the carelessness would work to your benefit. I don't know. It justr seems strange to me.

The email that I posted was just to reflect how careless of a purchase you made.

How is that really a defense? It seems you have that notion ahead of time to me but that's just my impression.

"send a few pics of the females when you get a chance"...what is that?

That just seems polite to me Rob, I don't think what you were trying to get out with that post made a impact in the way you wanted.

Now guys, I'm not exactly sure what happened here. Can you blame anyone for that?

Jason, I'm not stating that you aren't telling the truth. You have a couple of people that gave you a hard time about buying the deal in the first place and Robert has a few people believing he did exactly what you stated he did.

That is what actually prompted this post. Not that you are the one not telling the truth but that with several people stating the inconsistencies on the sellers position when I see very little as fact and inconsistencies on both sides.

What's one to believe? Considering you posted this thread and calling him out as the thief the burden would be on you in my opinion and I really don't know what proof you can put up that will make everyone know for certain but I know what would do it for me.

If there is a way for a unbiased person to verify each weight of the snakes listed as received and the packaging and it matches what is stated as shipped, I would say you provided sufficient proof for me.

As a unbiased person there could be a couple possibilities of what happened here.

Anyway, I hope don't see this as a attack but what a reasonable person would see posted here from two parties they know nothing about except what is in this thread.

 

[fuzzylogix]

thanks for having the patience to perfectly sum up what i was trying to get across

 

[SuperMorph]

Dennis, you have a really long post so I am going to have to answer it in sections. The first part that you ask of is the paypal payment and shipping. The payment was originally to be made between Feb 18-22. It was pushed back a week to Feb 25 since a tax return was not accepted by the deadline to pay out for that week. robert was fine with that. To get things moving and to show that I wasn't jacking him around I offered to send $450 as a down payment to get most of the males sent to me to so I can recoup some of my money. robert didn't want to ship out twice and wasn't worried about a week. I expressed that I didn't want the males in the very beginning, but robert really wanted to just sell them as one group. The group price was good enough to just get the males and resell them since I don't need any of them. Once robert received the money on Friday the snakes would be shipped out on the following Monday. His wife was VERY adament about getting the snakes out of there since there were too many snakes in the house (so robert says).

The snakes were to ship on Feb 28 and robert had the excuse not to ship them because nobody would be at the delta counter for me to receive them at 11:30pm. I didn't think that was a big deal and have heard of similar things like that happen before. So then it was pushed to the next day to March 1 and I should have had them by noon that day. robert said that he would call me and email me as soon as he returned home from dropping them off at the airport so early in the morning. I didn't receive one email, not one phone call, nothing. I called robert about a dozen times and not one answer and no return calls. I called delta and delta said no package was shipped. That is when I knew I was being scammed and went to paypal.

I figured that I was being scammed and since ringhoff would not answer the phone for me I had a friend call. After the second call my friend gets "robert's brother" to answer the phone. Supposedly they switched phones. My friend talks to robert once robert calls him back and its on speaker phone so I can hear what is being said. Supposedly ringhoff tried to pay delta with a card that doesn't have HIS name on it and can't ship the package. This call occurred late in the afternoon. A few hours later rinhoff finally calls me to tell me a shorter version of the story and that is when I informed him that it looked like he was scamming me and that he would have an email from paypal. His excuse for not calling me was the phone mix up, but he called my friend back right away. I asked about why didn't he send me an email, he didn't feel like it.

Later that night is when ringhoff sent me that third email that says I better stop what I am doing with paypal and such. I received some calls from ringhoff on March 2 saying that he didn't want to ship the snakes until Friday March 4 for me to get them at 11:30pm. It didn't make sense that he couldn't ship on Monday because it was too late, but now he could on Friday??? A friend went with me and I finally received the snakes and opened them up at the airport. I received a 27-28# styro box with 11 snakes. Opened all of the bags and found supposedly het ghost males, a messed up male cinny, three male pastels, a little male normal, and so forth. There were no heat packs and to fill the few small voids in the box was about six sheets of crumbled up news paper. Repacked everything and went home. I wrote down what I received and weighed everything when I arrived home. All of the snakes were alive, but there were only 11 and only 4-5 of those were correct. I called ringhoff when I was at the airport at 2:30am his time, no answer, at 4am his time and no answer. I called many more times on Saturday March 5 and not one call back or answer. I changed my paypal claim from not received to significantly different than described.

I have called ringhoff up 5 or six times a day at different times and not one time has he answered the phone or returned one call. I started giving paypal info and they closed the claim since I paid through them as personal, not purchase of goods. The appeal was closed out the same way. Paypal didn't even start reading the info I provided until after they closed the case. Paypal told me I was covered as long as I didn't pay as a gift, which I did not. Now paypal says even as a purchase they won't automatically reverse the payment upon return of the wrong snake group since I don't have a website to see a listing or have a signed AND notorized contract to provide to them. Paypal protection without protection. I notified paypal of the email and should be included in their notes. In some of the many calls with paypal reps, I was told that robert claims that he sent me the correct stuff and the agreement was $2000 paid to him, he ships me the snakes, then I pay him $1500 more! People wanted me to post his info so he could get his lies on here and I had to wait a short time to let paypal do their thing and ALL emails from me to robert have to go through paypal for the investigation.

I eventually received a call about 8am on March 10, but did not make it to the phone in time. I couldn't call back since the number was withheld. I figured it was ringhoff and still called him that day with no answer. I received another withheld call about 2pm and someone was practically yelling at me. I was finally able to figure out who it was by some of the stuff that I was able to understand and it was the scammer ringhoff. ringhoff told me that all of my calls were getting annoying and for me to stop calling. ringhoff would have nothing to do with correcting his errors since it was a scam. I told ringhoff on the phone about this thread. I also mentioned to him that someone had posted about him being a sex offender. Instead of him denying that, he says "really?". ringhoff started talking more crap that I couldn't underastand and he hung up on me. ringhoff called me a couple more times and hung up on me. Then called and hung up, called back right away and I let it go to voicemail. Then he threatens me with slander and harassment. He then gets on here and claims I didn't tell him about this thread and you have heard his lies since.

 

[SuperMorph]

Dennis, I am not taking anything you are saying as an attack at all. I would consider you to be of sound mind for at least of what you have post and asked of things that could/are questionable. Some of your comments say or reference pictures and possible quality. My comment on "Only one pic showed the snake and the weight." should actually say I only received one snake from ringhoff from the pictures that he sent me that showed the snake and the weight.

As far as ringhoff's pic quality or pic taking capabilities, you can see that he took some choppy pics as I have expressed before. I didn't care for pics of the males since I was getting rid of most of them. I asked him for pics of the females and received a few, but not ones that I would completely expect. ringhoff claims there are 16 pictures of individual snakes on weigh scales. He still has not provided that to me nor anyone else. He does have a female pastel pictured, but she is actually a he. One of my friends stopped by tonight to take pics of me popping these males that ringhoff claims are males. We tried to get as much of the body of the snake in the pic while I was popping them. I will have all of the pics loaded on this site hopefully by Tuesday evening.

 

[SuperMorph]

I am very glad I have these snakes in quarantine in two separate racks. While taking some of the pics, I have noticed another unfortunate problem with the cinny male that ringhoff sent to me. Not only is he probably blind, but his eyes are looking very dried out like they are infected and/or dead. First I thought it was just from shedding, but this is a much worse problem than a bad shed. He is also not looking physically well and I am glad he is in a rack completely by himself. Always quarantine new animals when you don't know the complete care or lack of care of them. I will be surprised if this snake lasts the month. I think it may be too late to give him antibiotics. This junk has to go regardless of how much more I lose because of this scam. I am definitely not going to sell damaged or sick snakes like ringhoff is making practice of doing. I am NOT going to have my whole collection get sick because of ringhoff's scam.

 

[SuperMorph]

Also, the $450 that I offered as a down payment or to get some of the males shipped here sooner was from my checking account, not a tax return. I was not planning on using money from my checking account to pay for snakes when that money is for things like bills, food, etc. That is why the money was coming from a tax return.

 

[wes smith]

I've typed out (3) different replies to this thread over the last couple of days but didn't post....I kept hoping someone else would post what I was thinking, Thank you Dennis!

Here is Robert's original list of ball pythons. Everything looks clear to me, no hets, no male normals. Then he added a pair of lessers over the phone.

Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 17:13:18 -0800 (PST)
From: Robert Ringhoff
To: [email protected]

Ok this is what i have spider m 700g $150 cinnine m 600g $100 cinnie f 1000g
$100 mojave m 210g $100 mojave f 260g $150 pastel m 1000g $100 pastel f 1060g
$200 norm f 1800g $100each there 3 granite f 1800g $100 ghost m 800g $100 ghost
f 1780g $150

.........

This is a list of everything just for our record:
0.3 Normals 1800g each
0.1 Granite 1800g
1.1 Ghost 800g/1780g
1.2 Pastel 1000g/1060g/1200g
1.1 Cinny 600g/1000g
1.0 Spider 700g
1.1 Mojave 210g/260g
All 14 bp's for $1600 shipped

Now I have to ask because it's one of the first things that stuck out to me....in the list provided by Robert (via e-mail), there is NO 1200g Pastel listed, yet in your reply list it states 1.2 Pastel 1000g, 1060g & 1200g. Robert's list only has (13) snakes listed and your's has (14). When was the 1200g Pastel added to the list? I have a feeling it was added along with the lessers over the phone, but you never stated this. As a reader I have to wonder what else was stated/agreed to over the phone but was not stated in this thread.

40-45 lbs minus 5 lbs of eggs that you 'stole' doesn't equal 27 lbs.

Again, you never stated anything about eggs (not one mention of eggs in the few e-mails and multiple posts by you) until Robert started responding to this thread, then you say he "stole" eggs?
You accuse Robert of not caring for his animals yet it seems (reading your posts) you would have rather had the gravid females shipped to you and take the chance of losing all the eggs and possibly the females in transit too. I know the ideal thing would have been for you to have been notified by Robert that they were gravid, but once you found out...you seemed more worried about the fact that he 'stole' eggs from you instead of caring about the snakes.

Jason, you had me sit on the snakes for 2 weeks while you were waiting for your income tax check. I told you that three females were gravid. The females laid their eggs before being shipped. You would have had the eggs too if you would have just brought them when you said you originlly going to. Pics of the eggs attached. When will you post the pics youve been asked for?

Also, you say payment was only delayed 1 week and Robert says 2 weeks. Going by your first e-mail date posted, you contacted him on Feb 13th. Payment was sent Feb 25th, 11-12 days later (almost 2 weeks). You have been pretty adamant it was only 1 week. Again, I'm only going by what has been posted. Can you post a screen shot of the payment sent through Paypal on Feb 25th?

The styro box and bags weigh about 4#.

Oh and I have an exact container like that one and it weighs 1 pound 3 ounces.

Can you post a pic of the box (lid open) showing the 4 lbs of weight? It would help make some of the inconsistencies clearer, IMO. Again, you say 4 lbs with pillow cases, Robert says 1 lbs/3 oz.

I'm not stating I believe one side or the other, but you have to realize (from a reader's point of view) in this thread you claimed he was is a pedophile, has stolen eggs that were supposed to be your's, took the pictures posted after he shipped the snakes...and haven't provided any real proof of any of these claims. Bottom line, if your not sure what your stating is true...DON'T POST IT! It makes it extremely difficult for someone to believe your story when unfounded accusations are thrown around...just sayin, IMO.

 

[SuperMorph]

Wesley Smith

The additional pastel female came in (through one of the many phone calls robert made to me) right after the email was sent from ringhoff to me. His wife was supposedly complaining about too many snakes in the house so robert would let the additional pastel female go if he received $200 for her. Too bad they were all males.

The egg thing, I didn't know the snakes were laying eggs. I was told they were possibly gravid, but I was still going to breed them to get babies either way. Those females that laid the eggs must be the reason that he kept delaying shipping. ringhoff even tried to tell me that he paid $50 for a few hours of parking. I don't know who would believe that either. All of the readers found out there were eggs the same time as I did. Why would I buy breeder females to breed right now if they just laid eggs??? ringhoff also claims and brags/boasts that he doesn't breed females unless they are at least 1500g. So how would he be breeding a maybe 1000g lesser or whatever else he says he has done?

I am not sure how you would want me to weigh a box with the picture to show the box with lid open and be able to see a backlit scale number. I have tried many angles on it and can't get anything to show that would be considered satisfactory. So why don't you test this out yourself, at least partially. Weigh an average size pillow case and multiply it by 11, or by 16 since robert claims I have received 16. Then get a styro box like the one that ringhoff sint me and weigh it. He doesn't deny sending me the box that I pictured. Don't worry about adding sticker weight or tape, it's negligible. Add those two number together and what do you get? Is it 19ozs or almost 4#???

The sex offender/pedophile thing was not originally posted by me. If you read the thread, you would see that two other people posted that article about ringhoff and I am merely taking note of it. If he has that on his record, that may explain why he can't have a regular job and has a 'tow business'. ringhoff also flips cars from what he tells me so you can buy a car from him, too. He tries to make fun of me for a having a real job and getting laid off from it. That doesn't bother me a bit. I am enjoying the break and I am still able to pay my bills. I just paid off my car yesterday so now I don't have payments on any vehicles, YEAH!

 

[SuperMorph]

Is robert going to post the pictures of the pastels that he sent to me, or any of the other animals that he claims that I received??? robert, do these bags look like some of the ones that you sent the snakes in?

 

[SuperMorph]

Is robert going to post the numbers that he used to figure the shipping weight of the animals and box with bags? The box outer dimensions are 18x14x15 and the styrofoam is 1.5" thick. Here are two pics of the cinny male he sent me. Poor guy!

 

[SuperMorph]

Anyone notice that he sent me three bags labeled pastel male? He also says that he sent me ghosts, yet the bags are labeled supposedly het ghosts and both of those were males.

Here are some pics of the pastels he sent me. robert posted a choppy pic of a pastel female. It can be seen that these are all males. We tried not to zoom in too close so the body and vent can be seen in the same pic. I don't want to be accused of taking a pic of one snake and taking a close pic of another snake's vent that you can't the body of.

Pic 1 pastel male 840g
Pic 2 pastel male 840g
Pic 3 pastel male 960g
Pic 4 pastel male 960g

 

[SuperMorph]

Here is the other pastel male pic 1 and 2. Here is also the cinny female and the spider male. The spider male sent to me doesn't match the picture he provided either. At least he sent me a cinny female.

 

[robr73]

Wes, I know that you have remained impartial and I appraciate that. I have to thank you for pointing out things in my favor that to be honest I didnt initially catch, like the email dates and payment lapse and pic questions. I breathed a small sigh of relief when I read your post and Dennis's post just knowing that my side is being heard and that there is a chance with all this that my Fauna "jury" is getting to hear the facts. I know you are not taking sides and I appreciate that, however the fact that you pointed things out that I didnt even catch really is appreciated. I dont know if we will ever come to a conclusion here. I hope everyone on here after reading this thread learns something from this. I might have gotten offensive at times when he brought my wife and child, even his age, into this. My son is disabled and I protect him immensly, it really affected me when he did that. The whole pedophile thing was out of left field and is completely unfounded, I do not have an alias, although my wife calls me brad pitt sometimes lol. This whole situation has brought so much negativity into my home that started to affect my wife and son and I wont/cant have that. I hope this isnt going to be viewed as me bowing out of a fight, but I really have to stop this now. It really cant go any further. I mean the fact that he said I just took all my posted pics because I still had the snakes, but then he posted the same pictures that I did which he received from me before buying the snakes...we could go in circles forever. Im sorry to anyone on here that I may have offended and again I thank you and Dennis for pointing out some important inconsistencies, but I believe I am done with this for now. I hope your businesses prosper and our situation has taught atleast something to someone.

 

[SuperMorph]

The weight of the pastel male in the last post is 1230g.

In this post, pic 1 and 2 is a normal male 570g that ringhoff sent me. I think this is the largest normal bp male that has ever been in my house. All males that I have had of that size or larger have all been visual morphs or hets for something. Pic 3 and 4 are the two supposedly het ghost males that ringhoff sent me, 760g and 1450g.

 

[SuperMorph]

Missed the upload, should work this time.

 

[SuperMorph]

Am I understanding that ringhoff is still not answering anyone's questions? Instead of posting something simple himself that he claims I am not doing, he leaves? robert has been flaky more and more the last two days and I had a feeling that he would just disappear. robert brought his wife and son into the whole deal. On the phone ringhoff blames his wife for almost everything and is constantly telling his son to not bother him. It is unfortunate that a child or anyone would have a disability, but what does that have to do with anything in this thread? This is another first of something that any of us are hearing about in this deal or thread. That just seems like more mis-direction if it is even true.

 

[robr73]

Youre a sick son of a B*** again. bringing them and your made up side comments about my child. This is not the first time, you repeatedly side bar about my family. It was only bought up in the content that you hit hard bringing him into this. I do not say to my son not to bother me, I would never. He is disabled a**, he is the one that NEEDS my attention more than your scam for money. Grow up and get a job. Leave your comments and my wife and child out of this. Im done.

 

[robr73]

Here is what I received in the 27-28# box from ringhoff.

1.0 normal 570g
0.1 normal 1450g
0.1 'granite' 1170g
1.0 normal supposedly het ghost 1450g
1.0 normal supposedly het ghost 760g
1.0 pastel 840g
1.0 pastel 1230g
1.0 pastel 960g
1.0 cinny 720g maybe blind?
0.1 cinny 850g
1.0 spider 560g

The styro box and bags weigh about 4#.

Where did the 4th pastel come from. This is the list you said you received, but in the last posts with pics of the snakes that I sent you..ehem..supposedly being sexed you have a 4th pastel with a weight listed. Let me guess, Im mis-directing, putting words in your mouth, avoiding questions...which one?