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Robert Vann aka Bob Vann Thief & Scam Artist!

Francisco,

Why did you lie to UPS? If you honestly didnt know that it was against their policy to ship a snake, then you could have explained that to them, but now since you have lied, and documented here for the world to see, you are really in it deep man!

You did a naughty thing and you should admit it and suck it up.
 
willows chelle said:
Francisco,

Why did you lie to UPS? If you honestly didnt know that it was against their policy to ship a snake, then you could have explained that to them,
Click to expand...

He admitted in post #13 that he knew it was against their TOS before he shipped...

IMO the bigger issue here is his fraudulent claim as to WHAT he shipped, not so much how he shipped.
 
I totally missed this the first read through,

quote from post 13, " I knew the risk involved with UPS's TOS about snakes,"

wow, that was pretty dumb Francisco.
 
I totally missed this the first read through,

quote from post 13, " I knew the risk involved with UPS's TOS about snakes,"

wow, that was pretty dumb Francisco.
Click to expand...

About the UPS thing. It's against their TOS but evidently they are used to ship snakes quite frequently. Just last week I rec'd several snakes from a well known, highly respected, breeder and one of the shipping options given to me was UPS. I had them shipped to me FedEx but the point is that I was offered UPS. You have nothing to fall back on with FedEX so the risk isn't any greater with UPS. If they're lost or whatever you're out either way. How many people ship snakes FedEx without being certified? How many put live reptiles, instead of snakes, as the contents? It's up to UPS to police their TOS not us. The attempt to scam UPS is another issue.
 
kmurphy said:
About the UPS thing. It's against their TOS but evidently they are used to ship snakes quite frequently. Just last week I rec'd several snakes from a well known, highly respected, breeder and one of the shipping options given to me was UPS. I had them shipped to me FedEx but the point is that I was offered UPS. You have nothing to fall back on with FedEX so the risk isn't any greater with UPS. If they're lost or whatever you're out either way. How many people ship snakes FedEx without being certified? How many put live reptiles, instead of snakes, as the contents? It's up to UPS to police their TOS not us. The attempt to scam UPS is another issue.
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Seems a bit hypocritical that sellers expect people to abide their TOS but think it is OK to disregard another companies TOS.
:shrug01:
 
HopingForBabies said:
It's funny how it works on here.You get ripped odd,and you become the bad guy.You post your experience and it gets turned on you.People lose sight of the original problem.It happened to me too!
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Not to take this to far off but since you felt the need to post this here and it peaked my curiosity as to how you were treated so badly by Fauna, I looked at the thread you are referencing.

You were not called out for having a good transaction with someone, but you were in regards to your opinions about dealing with others that have fraudulent transactions.
HopingForBabies said:
Lots of people on here have ripped people off,but people still buy from them.I am not the only one.If they didn't do anything wrong to me,why do I care.I am not saying they didn't do that to other people,but I have other things to think about than other peoples deals.How many deals do you think they made in the last few years?
Click to expand...

Many here have a different opinion than you and choose to express their thoughts on what you posted. I for one am glad they did. The whole purpose of this community is to help protect others from the very thing you care nothing about.

HopingForBabies said:
There isn't that many people complaining.There are other people on here with far more complaints against them,and people still buy from them.Walmart has ripped off people,but to save a couple bucks,I am sure you would go there to buy products.My experience was good,if yours wasn't,take that up with them.I am sure everybody was hoping I would get ripped off,just to prove thier point.
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No comment needed. Simply put, you didn't like the fact that someone posted links on your good guy thread to multiple bad guy threads about the people you did business with. You helped spiral the thread down by your responses.

Have a good day!
 
Seems a bit hypocritical that sellers expect people to abide their TOS but think it is OK to disregard another companies TOS.
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I don't disagree with this Sam and it is not something I would personally do. But I wouldn't think any differently about someone just because I found out they shipped a snake UPS. The OP made some mistakes there's no question. He should have required a signature and he shouldn't have attempted to pull an outright scam on the contents, but sending it UPS was the least of his mistakes IMO.
He was seriously scammed and this Robert Vann guy is a scumbag. The OP problems were inexperience and panic(when things went wrong).
 
I see it as he is posting about getting ripped off,but the tables were turned on him and now he is the bad guy.He did not steal from UPS,someone stole from him.UPS got paid,he didn't.Just because he had bad judgement and shipped the wrong way,doesn't give anyone the right to rip him off.It sounds like the other guy knew he could get away with it because he didn't sign for the package.
 
kmurphy said:
I don't disagree with this Sam and it is not something I would personally do. But I wouldn't think any differently about someone just because I found out they shipped a snake UPS. The OP made some mistakes there's no question. He should have required a signature and he shouldn't have attempted to pull an outright scam on the contents, but sending it UPS was the least of his mistakes IMO.
He was seriously scammed and this Robert Vann guy is a scumbag. The OP problems were inexperience and panic(when things went wrong).
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I'm just curious and a yes or no answer will do. Would you feel any different about someone if they shipped a snake through USPS?
 
HopingForBabies said:
I see it as he is posting about getting ripped off,but the tables were turned on him and now he is the bad guy.He did not steal from UPS,someone stole from him.UPS got paid,he didn't.Just because he had bad judgement and shipped the wrong way,doesn't give anyone the right to rip him off.It sounds like the other guy knew he could get away with it because he didn't sign for the package.
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It does sound like the guy ripped him off. The seller has a strong indication by his gut that this guy is lying. He truly believes he is being ripped-off.

But, here is my opinion and how I would have to view it standing in his shoes.

If I needed the funds and had no choice to sell an animal that I truly wanted to keep that would be upsetting in of itself.

I sent the package off and the guy is now claiming he didn't receive it.
I made the mistake and didn't require a signature. I'm sure this guy must have received the snake! There is no possible chance that someone took this package off the porch. I really need this money. This guy speaks nonchalantly referring to the snake being missing and states he can't believe I sent it without a signature request.

Knowing the quirks and personalities of how individuals respond to problems and sometimes their responses can be off, I still believe in my heart this guy is lying. I mean what are the chances that every package this guy receives is OK except for the one I sent not requiring a signature?
_____________________________________________________

Personally, for me, I would have hard time believing the person didn't receive the package. What would I do in spite of that fact? I needed these funds and I'm very upset that I sent this snake out and I'm not getting anything.

Even though my suspicions are strong, and I mentally take note that I was in strong need of the funds,which may be impairing my normal judgments, I couldn't in good conscience label a thread in the manner this was labeled.

I wouldn't try to seek reimbursement from a company I know doesn't want my business and claim to them that I did something other than what I actually did. Regardless of my needs, I would have taken a different approach. That in a nutshell is my opinions.
 
I'm just curious and a yes or no answer will do. Would you feel any different about someone if they shipped a snake through USPS?
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Yes I would. Breaking the terms of the post office is against the law. It makes us all look bad whenever anyone of us breaks a law in dealing with herps.

UPS is a company and has it's own policies. Breaking their rules only gets you in hot water with them. May get you banned from using their services. I am not saying that it is a good practice.
 
Gecko_Den said:
Are you serious David? So because he got ripped off it is OK, in your opinion, that he commit fraud against UPS to try and recoup some of his losses? Those are the actions of a good guy in your book? How does what he's doing to UPS make him any better than the person that allegedly ripped him off?
:confused:
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No, but while both parties were wrong, everyone has forgotten that Mr. Vann hasn't even shown up here to stand behind what he claims. While it is possible that the package hasn't shown up, I don't think that it's likely.

It should have been shipped in an industry standard way, not UPS (violates TOS to ship live snakes, too bad). It should have had a signature required. Calling someone a liar and a thief without having something to back it up is wrong.

It sucks, but don't do it twice. Because the seller screwed up in shipping does not exonerate anyone, but then a scam can't really be proven, now, can it.
 
Erik and others,
Need to address a conclusion many are making and using in your arguments. UPS will allow for some shippers to ship snakes. Their TOS allow them to be selective. The shipper here would have certainly been turned down had he presented his animal as a snake, but beyond that, UPS was paid to perform the sevice they performed, which was to deliver the package. I truly think that you would be best debating the merits of Mr. Vann, and of the original shipper misrepresenting his claim to UPS for reimbursement. And maybe stop trying to be such an expert on shipping, what qualifies as a "reputable" shipper etc, cause you already got it wrong twice :)
 
TheHerpinator said:
It sucks, but don't do it twice. Because the seller screwed up in shipping does not exonerate anyone, but then a scam can't really be proven, now, can it.
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Unfortunately, by his own admission, Mr. Escalante is the only proven scammer right now.

Escalante Reptiles said:
I told UPS there was computer memory in the box to see if I can get something back to refund Mr. Vann for the loss, and asked him to tell them the same so he could get his money back.
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This of course, does not take away from the fact that Mr. Vann needs to address this thread.
 
Chameleon Company said:
Erik and others,
Need to address a conclusion many are making and using in your arguments. UPS will allow for some shippers to ship snakes. Their TOS allow them to be selective. The shipper here would have certainly been turned down had he presented his animal as a snake, but beyond that, UPS was paid to perform the sevice they performed, which was to deliver the package. I truly think that you would be best debating the merits of Mr. Vann, and of the original shipper misrepresenting his claim to UPS for reimbursement. And maybe stop trying to be such an expert on shipping, what qualifies as a "reputable" shipper etc, cause you already got it wrong twice :)
Click to expand...

I said "industry standard" Posted just above is UPS' TOS. No live snakes. True, FedEx won't guarantee live delivery, but they will knowingly ship live snakes. This, to me, excludes UPS from an acceptable standard of shipping snakes, since one must lie to them in order for them to accept a live snake for delivery.

On the other count, if you read my post, I addressed the merits of Mr. Vann and the OP equally. There are odds that the package was stolen off of the porch before Mr. Vann got there. There is no way to tell if Mr. Vann has the snake or not, partially because of the poor shipping decisions that were made.

Stop trying to make yourself feel more important and start reading.
 
Stop trying to make yourself feel more important and start reading.
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Well, Jim aren't you glad you started posting in the BIO again. :rofl: It's like deja vu all over again. ;)
 
Erik,
I am not sure who the "start reading" is directed at, but by my scorecard, you are now 0-3.

I said "industry standard" Posted just above is UPS' TOS. No live snakes. True, FedEx won't guarantee live delivery, but they will knowingly ship live snakes. This, to me, excludes UPS from an acceptable standard of shipping snakes, since one must lie to them in order for them to accept a live snake for delivery.
Click to expand...

I'm going to type real slow for you. We all know what the TOS say for UPS. However, one need not "lie" to UPS, as you state, in order to ship a snake. UPS, under what I would call liberal circumstances that they determine, will accept live snakes for delivery. In fact, some of the biggest snake producers in the U.S. have major accounts with UPS. Another poster in this thread echoed the same. You can get all wrapped around the axle with what it says in print, but I am telling you what they actually knowingly do. Apparently UPS allows this standard to be waived at a fairly low level, and they do it often enough. 0-3.

Kevin, Einstein had it right when he spoke of stupidity ! I ain't hanging around, btw. You know what they say about arguing with an idiot, and I'd just as soon not be half or two idiots arguing.
 
Shipping methods aside; Mr. Escalante has been here several times viewing this thread and I for one would like to hear his justification for committing fraud... :shrug01:
 
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