• In case most of you have not noticed, I made changes to the donation amounts as well as the durations for all of the paid membership levels. Things are winding down here, and this seems to be the most prudent way to deal with the "end of life" period of this site.

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  • Responding to email notices you receive.
    **************************************************
    In short, DON'T! Email notices are to ONLY alert you of a reply to your private message or your ad on this site. Replying to the email just wastes your time as it goes NOWHERE, and probably pisses off the person you thought you replied to when they think you just ignored them. So instead of complaining to me about your messages not being replied to from this site via email, please READ that email notice that plainly states what you need to do in order to reply to who you are trying to converse with.

Robert Vann aka Bob Vann Thief & Scam Artist!

What i dont get is how someone who claims to have been selling and buying reptiles would defraud UPS and knowningly violate their TOS. If you've received animals throught FedEx and DHL, then why didnt you just ship with a company that permits the shipment of livestock? DHL doesnt require you to be a verified shipper... and you can also request a signature from the buyer. And with fedex it doesnt take very long to become a verified shipper.. which is something you couldve done in you sparetime....

now you mentioned the 3 messages from PayPal in regards to Bob Vann filing a claim.. did paypal contact you at all to give you a chance to explain your side of the story as to why the animal was not received? and if you have any email communications can you post those? I would like to see what transpired with PayPal..

btw Buyer Protection is only covered under Ebay sales... and its only meant to protect the buyer... Paypal has different policies in which outside ebay sales are involved..

oh and this i found amusing...
I knew the risk involved with UPS's TOS about snakes, but Bob Clark told me that I wouldn't have a problem, and that's how he shipped snakes to me
Click to expand...

and that proof is in the pudding too... http://www.bobclark.com/tracker.asp
 
Good points Nora, and I think the issues here are truly the integrity of the shipper based on his willingness to turn to fraud in his reimbursement claim, and also whatever can be gleaned from the buyer. PayPal's actions here, and how they might be re-addressed now AND avoided in the future, is also of enormous value to readers. All just IMMHO.

Kevin, always a pleasure following up many of your thoughts :)
 
nora said:
If you've received animals throught FedEx and DHL, then why didnt you just ship with a company that permits the shipment of livestock? DHL doesnt require you to be a verified shipper... and you can also request a signature from the buyer.
Click to expand...

:confused:

From the DHL website:

DHLregs.png
 
Ooops, hit "post" too soon..... :eek:

This is what DHL does accept....very similar to UPS. Not sure why shipping through them would be any more acceptable than UPS?

dhlregs2.png
 
Chameleon Company said:
Erik,
I am not sure who the "start reading" is directed at, but by my scorecard, you are now 0-3.



I'm going to type real slow for you. We all know what the TOS say for UPS. However, one need not "lie" to UPS, as you state, in order to ship a snake. UPS, under what I would call liberal circumstances that they determine, will accept live snakes for delivery. In fact, some of the biggest snake producers in the U.S. have major accounts with UPS. Another poster in this thread echoed the same. You can get all wrapped around the axle with what it says in print, but I am telling you what they actually knowingly do. Apparently UPS allows this standard to be waived at a fairly low level, and they do it often enough. 0-3.

Kevin, Einstein had it right when he spoke of stupidity ! I ain't hanging around, btw. You know what they say about arguing with an idiot, and I'd just as soon not be half or two idiots arguing.
Click to expand...

No, you don't need to lie, just not tell the truth, right? Liberal circumstances as in "don't ask don't tell"?

I'm certain that typing slow comes naturally to some, and reading too quickly comes the same. Some come equally for both.

You can keep your own score all you like. If a shipper has in print that they will not accept live snakes as cargo, I won't ship or receive with them. UPS has that policy in print, I take that as it comes. There's plenty of other ways to ship.

Look, you've won your argument, you're still a retard. (read back: I didn't start this crap, I was just trying to bring Mr. Vann's name in again because that was completely forgotten with the OP's attempting to defraud UPS).

0-4
 
Chameleon Company said:
Good points Nora, and I think the issues here are truly the integrity of the shipper based on his willingness to turn to fraud in his reimbursement claim, and also whatever can be gleaned from the buyer. PayPal's actions here, and how they might be re-addressed now AND avoided in the future, is also of enormous value to readers. All just IMMHO.

Kevin, always a pleasure following up many of your thoughts :)
Click to expand...

Agreeing with Nora about the DHL shipment of snakes.

Hmph.

1-4
 
Fact is, we have no actual proof that Mr. Vann has done anything wrong. Before anyone gets angry and starts to hit reply, re-read what I said. We have NO ACTUAL PROOF that Mr. Vann has done anything wrong. We DO however, have proof that the original poster has done something wrong.

Now, don't read more than necessary into what I said. I'm pretty sure that Mr. Vann has pulled a scam. The OP needs to post screenshots and specific e-mails to back up his claims. I particularly would like to see a screenshot of the UPS tracking information.
 
Erik, I think what some are taking exception to is that you are stating that it is the "industry standard" to only use Fedex or Delta....usually, when folks talk about the reptile industry, that includes all herps, not just snakes but lizards and such as well. It is perfectly acceptable, as well as widely done, to ship lizards and such by UPS. To say that no one in "the industry" that is reputable ships with UPS, well....it just ain't right.

But I do agree, that as far as shipping SNAKES, unless you have a major account with another carrier, Fedex is the most widely accepted and what I use. Technically, Fedex doesn't accept snakes either.....that's why you get a waiver.

And back to the REAL topic here......no, no one has any proof that Mr. Vann actually scammed Francisco, and probably never will. I still believe that he would be a buyer to watch out for, however, as he did not give Francisco time to try to make the deal right before making a chargeback, nor did he seem to care about the welfare of the animal.
 
Erik,

Cat got it right as to your conclusions that were over-reaching. Or to be more accurate, where thou hast talketh "out of your butt" (your words).

No, you don't need to lie, just not tell the truth, right? Liberal circumstances as in "don't ask don't tell"?
Click to expand...

0-4 :shootfoot

The problem was that every time you characterized the shipping, you felt some need to expand your negative conclusions into a bit too broad of an umbrella, claiming some domain to knowing what qualified as "industry standards", "reputable", and apparently now, that one must "lie" to get UPS to waive their TOS. Dittos for DHL. Nope.

I didn't chime in until you had gotten it wrong three times, and then after others had already pointed out your errors. How many times do you need to get it wrong before you let it go ? How about "the shipper here violated the UPS TOS", and leave it at that ? That was established early on btw .... DOH !
 
jrgh17 said:
I particularly would like to see a screenshot of the UPS tracking information.
Click to expand...

Not too difficult - the tracking number was given in the very first post on this thread. :shrug01:

UPStrack.png
 
Hope this helps!
I have sold and purchased from Bob and I don't believe he would do this!
I also noticed that the delivery log states it was to WEST Sacramento, He does NOT live in West Sac.
And he has no chair in front of his house, I have been there in the last few weeks!
I would say it was delivered to the wrong address.
I just had a package delivered across the street not 30 days ago and the guy that I sent the package to was watching the driver put it on the wrong porch! So he went and asked the driver and sure enough!
 
Hope this helps! I have sold and purchased from Bob and I don't believe he would do this! I also noticed that the delivery log states it was to WEST Sacramento, He does NOT live in West Sac.
And he has no chair in front of his house, I have been there in the last few weeks! I would say it was delivered to the wrong address.
I just had a package delivered across the street not 30 days ago and the guy that I sent the package to was watching the driver put it on the wrong porch! So he went and asked the driver and sure enough!
Click to expand...

Well, this is an interesting twist. Maybe you could get Bob to come here and verify he didn't get the package.
 
kmurphy said:
Well, this is an interesting twist. Maybe you could get Bob to come here and verify he didn't get the package.
Click to expand...
He is not much of an internet user but I will do what I can!!
 
Chameleon Company said:
Cat got it right as to your conclusions that were over-reaching. Or to be more accurate, where thou hast talketh "out of your butt" (your words).



0-4 :shootfoot

The problem was that every time you characterized the shipping, you felt some need to expand your negative conclusions into a bit too broad of an umbrella, claiming some domain to knowing what qualified as "industry standards", "reputable", and apparently now, that one must "lie" to get UPS to waive their TOS. Dittos for DHL. Nope.

I didn't chime in until you had gotten it wrong three times, and then after others had already pointed out your errors. How many times do you need to get it wrong before you let it go ? How about "the shipper here violated the UPS TOS", and leave it at that ? That was established early on btw .... DOH !
Click to expand...

Perhaps I am misunderstanding something. UPS has a no live snakes, venomous or not, DHL has a no live "UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES" thing going on. Maybe I am missing something.

Cat; You are right, I was misconstruing UPS' rules, I'm not familiar with the shipping of lizards and such, or snakes for that matter, but I just read the rules that they lay down.

I had already NOT DEFENDED the OP's choice of carriers or methods. CC just seemed to need someone to beat up on and picked me.

If shipping live snakes is not against UPS' TOS then why would I leave it at that?
 
Chameleon Company said:
How about "the shipper here violated the UPS TOS", and leave it at that ? That was established early on btw .... DOH !
Click to expand...

I had that conclusion very early on, I was a little too broad in my interpretation, but that doesn't mean that I was entirely wrong.

d'oh
 
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