Bad Guy Ron Billingsley- Backed out on a deal

[Cheryl Marchek AKA JM]

John E Dove states my opinion perfectly. Maybe not a bad guy~ but not a guy you can count on his "handshake". To some of us~ our "Handshake" means a lot more than $45

 

[critical bill]

The guy is obviously not a man of his word, and its a damn shame he is trying to squeeze his customer for more money. Its great that he refunded the payment, but its totally not the way to do good business. When you set a price that's the price.

But its his business, and let the record show here on the BOI that this is the way he does it.

A good rep all this time and now SCREWED himself with his first boi bad guy thread over $45 clams.

Pffffftttttttttt......is the economy really that bad out there?

 

[David Reid]

By your own words Ron, "It was just $45." So if you expected her to pay you the additional $45 for your mistake, if it was JUST $45, why not just eat it? Pretty poor business practice if you ask me...

 

[SPJ]

I mean how can a person be a BAD GUY for refunding the money?

He is a bad guy for changing the terms of the agreed upon deal after payment and email confirmations about it was set.
It's not about the dollar amount. It's about whether or not you can trust a person at their word.

 

[TriangleReptiles]

If he won't keep his word over $45, what good is his word? What is the price on his integrity?

 

[callak]

Mr. Daniel
What makes him less than honorable is the fact he gave his word on a price, confirmed that price then tried to raise the price after getting the money in his hands.
If at any point prior to receiving the money he had changed his price there would be no issue but once he accepted the money he asked for he was bound to honor the deal IMO.
"Bad Guy"? Questionable.
Less than reputable? Yes!

Completely agree with ya man, that was my whole point. Less reputable I couldnt think of the correct word I was trying to get at. If he had caught before hand no foul, but the deal was done, price was set and money was paid. No renegging at that point!

 

[Gecko_Den]

You sure do contradict yourself a lot....

came across an add that they were having a special on they're gravids. Since I started BPs I like to get one a year to see what babies it would throw, they are then quarentined for 6 months in a completely separate room ext.

Wow, sounds like you have been doing this for a while and have it down...

I contact them and they gave me an even better price, which I didnt ask for but I figured it was because shipping was so high and I was buying 3 from him.

I guess you were making up for the other years that you only buy "one"?

I to am one of those people, just starting out in the hobby

Wait, I thought you had been buying gravids for awhile now, how is it you are "just starting out in the hobby"?

You have a somewhat valid complaint here, was it really necessary to embellish your first post? Couldn't you have simply stated the facts? Sort of makes me wonder if you haven't embellished other aspects of this deal?

 

[John E Dove]

It would seem that the OP would not have been the only one to embellish in this thread. Mr. Billingsley stated;

It is amazing... over a year goes by, hundreds and hundreds of deals, and not one Good Guy/Bad Guy post on the BOI.

When in fact on 04-24-2008, just under 10 months ago, Ms. Tosha McClintock lodged the following complaint against him on the thread noted below the following quote and Mr. Billingsley never bothered to reply.

I bought a WC girl from Ron this season - after some problems with shipping she finally arrived to me - I had ordered one of his select ones that he posted on KS what I had gotten was a rather blah normal several hundred grams less than the one I'd bought and COVERED in ticks.

When I contacted Ron his response was that if the snake was less than 2000 grams I could send it back for a new one. I'd previously made it very clear that I wanted a specific looking snake that would lend itself to future projects - he'd even sent me several snapshots of his selects for me to choose from - but the best that he could do was for me to reship a gravid female in the dead of winter for a replacement. I passed I'm not that cruel.

After she layed I posted pictures of the clutch on Kingsnake and had a few people contact me to see how I was getting mom acclimated - upon further discussions I'd found that there were several people that Ron had pulled the same bait and switch with. All got tick infested animals and I even found one other person that bought the same snake I had - Ron had even offered a free "select" female to someone if she paid shipping. What a guy

Ron was real nice and helpful - until something went wrong - when I called him on the bait and switch he stopped returning emails. Go figure.

I wouldn't recommend Ron or his gravids to anyone.

The thread; http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97424&highlight=Ron+Billingsley

From what I have read in those older posts on Mr. Billingsley he may be alright with his display cages but when it come to animals..........

 

[Tuxus]

To me it is rather obvious that Ron is in the wrong on this one. The deals terms were agreed upon, the payment had been made and shipping was about to commence. As for how this person can be a bad guy...do you really believe the only way to be a "Bad Guy" is to be a thief? I'm sure if their was a tag for "less reputable" tag on the BOI the OP would have used that instead.

Gecko_Den: I like to get a pizza about once a month, this month I've had 2...by saying that does this mean I no longer like to get pizza only once a month because of a single month which was different because I don't believe it does. As for "just starting out", I can't explain that one away so I believe you had a valid point there.

John E Dove: buddy lately you have been right on the money with your assessments of situations on the BOI. Sometimes I wonder if I even need to post when my view has already been stated by you.

 

[Nagini]

Sorry for mistating it, I've only been in the snake business almost 2 years, I consider that just starting out since I only have a few morphs and this will be my first breeding season. I consider that just starting out. I've only bought 1 gravid in the past, last year from a different buyer. Any other questions? I'd be glad ot answer them if Im not clear on anything

 

[critical bill]

Sorry for mistating it, I've only been in the snake business almost 2 years, I consider that just starting out since I only have a few morphs and this will be my first breeding season. I consider that just starting out. I've only bought 1 gravid in the past, last year from a different buyer. Any other questions? I'd be glad ot answer them if Im not clear on anything

Did you ever invest in some reptile books like I suggested you do back about two years ago? Two years ago when you knew absolutely nothing and still know about next to nothing to this very day?

Would you like me to pull some of your posts here where you've actually purchased animals and didn't even know what the hell it was you were even purchasing? Some kind experienced folks here had to identify animals that you purchased or acquired because you didn't have a clue. I know, because I was one of those who helped you.

Ya know...Ron might not be a man of his word, but do you know what you are? You are an exaggerating twit.

Here is an idea, twit. Why don't you take that refund money and by some books and gain a bit of knowledge. You might actually know what it is your buying and how to care for it.

I really wouldn't even count this against the guy because it involves...YOU.

 

[SofaKing]

Most TOS state that the business has the right to terminate any transaction for any reason at any time. So are those businesses " Bad Guys"?

 

[kmurphy]

I've purchased from Ron before and met him at shows a few times. This wouldn't stop me from doing so again but I'm with the group that feels he is definately in the wrong here. Like Ron said: "It's only $45."

 

[lanceheads]

Most TOS state that the business has the right to terminate any transaction for any reason at any time. So are those businesses " Bad Guys"?

Good post!

Randal Berry

 

[Masonexotics]

Most TOS state that the business has the right to terminate any transaction for any reason at any time. So are those businesses " Bad Guys"?

No it does not, and neither does it in this case IMO.

HOWEVER:

While I don't consider the seller a "bad guy" I do feel it shows poor form/lack of class to renege on a deal because of a mistake you've made. I'm sure the seller would have understood if we were talking $100+ or $1000 + but for a $45 mistake? Bite the bullet, take the hit and consider it a lesson learned and worth it for the satisfied customer you've just impressed.

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

Most TOS state that the business has the right to terminate any transaction for any reason at any time. So are those businesses " Bad Guys"?

I gotta call BS on that statement. Supply us with two TOS that state that.

I am actually surprised that ANYONE is defending Ron on this one. While I agree that this scenario does not necessarily warrant a "Bad Guy" label, it does merit an "Unethical" tag.

This was not a case of shooting out an Email with a number and then sending a followup Email soon after to state that a mistake had been made. Ron offered the reduced price and then, when questioned about it, confirmed it. Payment was sent and received. It was only while negotiating a shipping day that he decided he had quoted too low of a price and quahed the deal for the extra $45.

I can pretty much guarantee that you will not find anyones TOS that states they have the right to do that.

I strongly believe that the only ones defending him are loyal customers and friends that are stretching for a way to not think badly of him in this rather cut and dried situation

 

[Mooing Tricycle]

i Dont think anyone is calling him a bad guy. Bad business practices? Sure.... But thats all i see here in this thread.

But the other point that, yeah, he can terminate it at any time... sure i can understand that too. Am i going to be forgiving or likely to do business with someone who might cancel because they dont like the price theyre selling for? Nope.

Dont want that stigma following you around? Dont do it.

Inquiries are one thing, and starting to talk to someone about a sale falls into that category too. Until the money is sent at an agreed upon price ( Which in this case it WAS!), and the animals are to be shipped, i dont think a deal is done. But, another friend pointed out that he feels that the deal isnt DONE until the animals are in someone else's possession. and i happen to agree with that too.

Just lame business practice.was this AT ALL BOI worthy? Not really!!!!

...... She got her money back.

 

[kmurphy]

Just lame business practice.was this AT ALL BOI worthy? Not really!!!!

I don't completely agree with this statement Moo. I believe small customer service issues belong here just as much as major ones. While I don't believe you're going to get scammed by Ron, by any means, you may double check to make sure everyone is on the same page the next time you deal with him. On another note I think Ron went above and beyond taking pictures of WC females and picking out clear bellies for the price he was asking.

 

[mikeyt]

I will agree with the fact that Ron may or may not be a bad guy, but his bad business practices leave a little to be desired. This is a cut and dry case. The price was set by the seller (he cannot even say that it was set by an unknowlegable employee, but by himself, the owner), and agreed upon by the purchaser. Payment was recieved, and shipping process had commenced, therefore seller agreed to terms of the sale.

Regardless if whether or not it was only $45 or $500, there was a verbal agreement and email verification between both parties. The seller clearly agreed to this price and regardless of the loss, in my opinion it is his lap. The animals should have been shipped, and the loss sucked up as a lesson learned. "think before you speak"

I can only ask the question that if the shoe was on the other foot what would Ron have done in this situation?

I have never done business with Ron before, and really dont have the need to in the future, but can honestly say that because of this thread, IF I happened to see something of interest from him, I would pass it by. I need the security of knowing that the animals I am purchasing are honestly represented, and the person that I am buying from, their word is as good as the animals they are selling.

What is the cost for the loss of a potential customer ? $45

Mike Tyler

 

[ophidile]

Humm, I think this one's up to "personal ethics".
If Ron (or someone else) tried to jack up the price ABOVE what the advertisement said, I would consider them a bad guy trying to milk more money out of a deal at the last minute.
In this case though, where he tried to up the price to what it was originally stated as? Ehhh... not a great move, I probably wouldn't have done it, but not exactly a HORRIBLE thing to do either.

... interestingly, I believe department stores are actually obligated to sell items by what's on the price tag, regardless of whether it's wrong. I know cuz at one of those new-years sales I got a jacket that rang up as $20 more than the price tag stated. I caught it (the $$ was over what I like to spend on any single item of clothing) and asked the sales rep, she checked it and gave it to me at the lower price saying that they HAVE TO sell for what's on the tag.

Of course, we aren't department stores! And in this case, the increased price reflected the advertised price. Honestly if the OP originally wanted the BPs at the advertised price, not sure what the big deal was.