Salmon X Hogg Island question's

[Boa4u]

Dennis, you beat me to it with the dog reference. A little research into the different dog breeds will demonstrate a log history of crossing different dog breeds to make new breeds possesing certain characteristics that breeders found to be desirable.

So James, are you going to tell me that breeds such as the Boxer and the Doberman are some sort of abomination because they are the result of crossing breeds? I don't think so. Also, boas do not carry passports that would restrict their interaction with other boas in bordering countries or localities. So what of the natural cross breedings that have and will continue to happen? I think weather cross bred by breeders or by nature, it all adds to color and excitement of breeding and keeping boas.

I for one, have a hog male that I crossed with a salmon female. Any babies that I might sell from that litter will be represented as hog/salmon crosses. I am eagerly awaiting to see what pops out. I think so long as crosses are accurately represented, it is not a problem and it has nothing to do with ethics, and all to do with preference. Unethical would be representing hypo/hog crosses as pure hogs.

I also plan to buy a pure hog female in the future and breed her to my hog male. While I have no problem with crosses, I would also be very sad if hogs and other localities were to totally disappear. I think maintaining locality breeds are important. I just don't agree with the people that look down on people that cross breed. If mainting localities only is what floats your boat than have at it, but don't call it ethics.

So Chris, you asked for opinions, and there you have it.

 

[Laura Fopiano]

No need for any explanations...they're your snakes you can do what you want with them, however, always be honest with the buyer of the genetics. I will probably take a lot of heat for crossing my Sabogae with my Honduran tiger, but I'm into color and pattern and love pretty snakes......beauty will always be in the eye of the beholder....so please lighten up a little gentlemen....you can all continue in sound off or hell, for those who are down and dirty

 

[markface]

as i said before , the only "ethics" problem i see with it is that when someone sells a cross local boa that they be honest about its genetics . i honestly believe that what someone does with their critters(so long as it doesnt include cruelty) is up to them . i have one boa that is a cross but is a very pretty girl and i have one that i believe is some central american local but not sure of anything on him really . they are both beautiful snakes in their own right and i may in the future breed them because i think they will make interesting babies . if and when i sell the babies i will let anyone that buys them know in advance that they are "mutts" so to speak . i think its very important to make sure that the pure lines of the different local snakes continue in captivity as well as in the wild , but , i think if you go back to the dog analogy , some of my favorite dogs in the past have been "just mutts" but i loved them just as they were . i think that can go for snakes too . the cross local ( or mutt) as long as it is advertised as such when sold , should have just as important a spot in collections as the pure lines .

 

[hhmoore]

....so please lighten up a little gentlemen....you can all continue in sound off or hell, for those who are down and dirty

I'm not sure where that one is coming from Laura...I even reread the thread to see if I missed something, lol. So far, this has been a calm, civil discussion. Nobody has been what I would consider disrespectful. Some of the points of view are following the expected course, but (in this instance, at least) they are not as far off in their comparisons.

The references to mixing races/nationalities and mixing dog breeds typically come up in discussions about hybrids & intergrades. In most of those cases, they just don't hold water because the animals in question are of different species, or at least subspecies; while different races of humans are all of the same species/subspecies. The same can be said for the different breeds of domestic dogs (as bizarre as some of the couplings might be, from a taxonomic perspective they are the same animal). In this case, Hog Island boas and Salmon/hypo boas are both BCI, so the argument works. However, since Hog Island boas are an insular race - read: confined to an island - the other argument about intermingling in areas of territory overlap really doesn't apply here IN NORMAL CIRCUMSTANCES (sure, some freak event could cause a mainland boa to end up on the island, or vice-versa, and it could happen...and nobody would be up in arms about it.)

 

[densnake1]

Alex please post or send me some pics of those babies, when they are born. I thought about doing the same thing.lol Thanks
Dennis Cook

 

[HerpLuver]

Alex Tower, I couldnt have said it better myself. I was thinking along those same lines but could not seem to get it out without sounding like i was being arrogant or sarcastic.

If i do this, you can all witness me saying, i WILL advertise whatever i sell exactly as it is. And if i do use a female she will only then be used for hog crosses. No hog x hog breedings, since i see some believe she will be tainted. I've never been one to see where that comes from. But im always up for a lesson in knowledge. Im not dirty, under-handed or deceitful. Like i said, im not here for the money. The experience, Yes! The Passion, Yes! But there's no greed eminating from this person, i can tell you that. Actually, i get quite angered when i see people price gouging. Makes me want to sell a snake at cost ($2 a month electric/water/etc..+ Exact cost of food a month = cost). I'll be honest, when i first became introduced to the internet market the thought did come to mind *Im going to be...* But faded quickly once the complete understanding of why alot of you good people breed these animals. I just want to produce B E A UTIFUL animals and provide someone with great pet's/breeder's. So shoot me. LOL

 

[hhmoore]

And if i do use a female she will only then be used for hog crosses. No hog x hog breedings, since i see some believe she will be tainted. I've never been one to see where that comes from. But im always up for a lesson in knowledge.

Chris, the notion that she would be tainted comes from the fact that female snakes can retain sperm for a long time. There have been cases where females have not been with a male for a (verified) period of several years, then dropped a clutch/litter...or had babies evidencing a morph/trait that hadn't been used in recent breedings (for example - you breed your female hog to a salmon this year, then use her for hog x hog breedings only. 3 years from now, she has a litter that includes sunset crosses). There was one such case mentioned here on Fauna, and it was pretty easy to track down. here is the post

 

[crotalusadamanteus]

How bad off is the population of Hogg island boa's in the wild? Honestly?

Well, how many you think will fit on these 2 little islands?


As with most of the island locale, you are gonna find a lack of diversity through limited gene pool because of the isolation. I do not think the Hog genes would act the same as a salmon if bred to WT. (+/- 50-50) I do not know for sure though, as I personaly do not agree with crossing.

Chris, the notion that she would be tainted comes from the fact that female snakes can retain sperm for a long time. There have been cases where females have not been with a male for a (verified) period of several years, then dropped a clutch/litter...or had babies evidencing a morph/trait that hadn't been used in recent breedings

Gotta concur with that. BW Smith posted about his boa that dropped after like 2 yrs with no male. Just another example.

You could probably find a nice high color hypo female as suggested above that would make some really nice babies. And probably get one 100% het for albino as well for under a grand.

Just my $0.025
Rick