Sandfire Dragon Ranch

[Tere Salazar]

Bobby-

You just crossed the line. I haven't done anything wrong. I'm defending a friend...just the same as you are. I'm pretty sure if you ask anyone who KNOWS me, they would tell you I'm painfully honest...no matter what the situation.

If you're insinuating I'm lying about my test results, here they are. I'm not at all worried about anyone stealing my results.

 

[Tere Salazar]

Hit submit too soon. The only conversations Puppytoes and I have had are publicly posted in the bearded dragon forum. I didn't put her up to anything. I'm pretty sure she's got her own brain.

 

[DThomas]

The last person that went around resurreting old threads from years back just to carry over a pissing match got themselves fined and suspended. I would suggest everyone keep that in mind.

 

[puppytoes72]

i have never spoken to tere privately,i do have my own brain ty.i do have all the proof and receipts that i need to back up what i said.IF and WHEN i figure out how to get them on here(maybe take a pic of them) i may post it on here.how about all the ppl that complain against feeder supply companies?do they need to suppy prove of their 1000 dead crickets and an invoice #??

 

[puppytoes72]

The last person that went around resurreting old threads from years back just to carry over a pissing match got themselves fined and suspended. I would suggest everyone keep that in mind.

i did not realize it was an old thread.

 

[varnyard]

Tere, that is not a blood test PCR, it is EM testing.

The rest of this story can be found here: http://www.beardeddragon.org/bjive/viewtopic.php?t=50836

draggintails
Newbie Poster


Joined: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 26

Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 7:53 pm Post subject:

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But, you did not PCR test your dragons. You EM tested them.

Florida would like everyone to know they do not do blood PCR and they are upset over this misinformation, Dr. Stacey or Jacobson will speak with anyone who wishes to question them about the validity of her statement XXXXXXXXXXXXX [admin: phone number removed. I seriously doubt they care to have a flood of calls. If they want that contact info provided, THEY can post it.]

Dr. Stacey said you did not submit any samples, he does not have your phone number and you will not call him.

We do not have 11 negatives in the country as of 3/27/07 after retesting of the negatives, the numbers are dwindling Chastity and when the statistics come out next week it will show that you did not have 11 dragons test negative by PCR at his lab and his lab is the only one that does the PCR. The people with the small number of resulting negatives are going to be able to be verified with a phone call to the lab.

Florida does not do blood PCR /swab end of story. They dont offer it anywhere in the country. It has not been done. You did not test your dragons by PCR blood and neither did Denise. You did not even test them by fecal PCR, you did not PCR test them period. People are calling the lab about your statments and Dr. Stacey has told them the truth and they are bewildered beyond belief.

In the EM testings, the statistics is 3 out of 4 dragons positive..... 162 positive and 63 negative. Out of your 11 submissions all 11 were negative..not even a rare viral particle seen or occasional....all 11 no viral seen, you were the only person to accomplish that. That defies the law of 3 out of 4 ( closer 72%)...anyone, anyone can see this is not possible anyone that knows how to work percentages and statistics. 11 out of 11 has not tested negative by EM only yours out of 225 dragons tested....only you accomplished a 100% negative rate on all submissions.

Denise Latanzi, AKA Denisebme, has one shot at telling the truth about her testing her dragons via blood PCR /swab for this virus. Either she can fess up now or a thread will need to start on the BOI about her missrepresenting her business/animals. She has now been caught on this.

Tere, I knew you tested, but not by way of blood PCR /swab, yet you acted like Denise Latanzi was telling the truth about this type of testing on her dragons. To do such makes your statements on this board questionable do to untruths being told/supported by you. JMHO.

Now anyone can say that Kevin Dunn at Sandfire is wrong for not testing, but it is even worse to lie about the tests that never happen.

Kevin is still a highly respected by me, he is also telling the truth IMO. I cannot say the same about a few that have posted on the two threads started about him. They also claim not to be attacking him, but to post false facts about testing and having clean dragons is only meant to make Kevin look bad, that is how I see the facts here.

As for my thoughts about puppytoes72, is it not a fact that all three of you ( puppytoes72, Saladragon and Denisebme) showed up from beardeddragon.org to post on these threads about Kevin? I rest my case, I am also sorry for such a long post.

 

[Tere Salazar]

Bobby-

I have stated from the very beginning that I used fecal EM tests on my dragons, and have never claimed that I used PCR testing. Also, if you look at the top of those results, it says Obsession Dragons...not Cali Dragons.

Those are my results, not Denise's. Last time I checked, my name is Tere Salazar and my I used to run this breeding business called Obsession Dragons. Now, also last time I checked, my name was NOT Denise Latanzi and my business was NOT CaliDragons.

Yes, Denise and I are friends, and have been for a while now. That does not mean, however, that I would be responsible for posting anyone's results but my own. Trust me, if I had the results, I'd post them just to shut you up.

Question my statements on this board all you like. I could care less. Your tactics don't work with me, and you've become more than a little annoying.

Regarding your statement about the three of us showing up over here just to bash someone, I think not. One, I didn't start the threads. Two, I've been a member over here for a while, and have been posting over here for a while. Three, I didn't bash anyone. I stated my opinion that Adenovirus is not in all bearded dragons....big difference.

Now, as for "acting like Denise is telling the truth", it's no act. Here's another opinion for you...you'll be owing both Denise and I an apology very soon.

 

[Otter_23]

It appears Bobby that she has been a member here way longer than you.

 

[varnyard]

Bobby-

I have stated from the very beginning that I used fecal EM tests on my dragons, and have never claimed that I used PCR testing. Also, if you look at the top of those results, it says Obsession Dragons...not Cali Dragons.

I have stated, I knew you tested, however it is not PCR blood swab testing. That test does not exisit for this virus.
I might add, the doctor that does do the testing even admits there is none.

Those are my results, not Denise's. Last time I checked, my name is Tere Salazar and my I used to run this breeding business called Obsession Dragons. Now, also last time I checked, my name was NOT Denise Latanzi and my business was NOT CaliDragons.

But you have been backing up her statements about these tests, is so doing, you are not even close to honest.

Yes, Denise and I are friends, and have been for a while now. That does not mean, however, that I would be responsible for posting anyone's results but my own. Trust me, if I had the results, I'd post them just to shut you up.

Yet again you are trying to cover your tracks, It is not going to work Tere. There is no blood test, that is the bottom line.

Question my statements on this board all you like. I could care less. Your tactics don't work with me, and you've become more than a little annoying.

That is fine, however the tactics were used by you and your (defended friend). The gig is up, the lab said noone tests the blood. Please do not look over the facts.

Regarding your statement about the three of us showing up over here just to bash someone, I think not. One, I didn't start the threads. Two, I've been a member over here for a while, and have been posting over here for a while. Three, I didn't bash anyone. I stated my opinion that Adenovirus is not in all bearded dragons....big difference.

Was this not brought up over there before all three of you came here and posted on these two threads? Yes it was!!

Now, as for "acting like Denise is telling the truth", it's no act. Here's another opinion for you...you'll be owing both Denise and I an apology very soon.

I highly doubt that, there is no way you are right and the leading experts in the testing are wrong.

So you would go so far as to lie for a friend? Do you remember posting this?

Saladragon: You just crossed the line. I haven't done anything wrong. I'm defending a friend...just the same as you are. I'm pretty sure if you ask anyone who KNOWS me, they would tell you I'm painfully honest...no matter what the situation.

You have not done anything wrong? You were just defending a friend? I would also say you are very far from painfully honest, as I have more than proven here. That is the facts!!

 

[Cat_72]

Tere has been posting over here on this topic for a LONG time, Bobby. Long before these most recent threads were started.

And I know Tere well enough to KNOW that she is a completely honest person. If she is stating something, she is stating it as the truth as known to her.

 

[JimD]

There is one problem with that. Most people post what they "feel" is right. That doesn't allways mean they KNOW its right. Thats a generalization statement. Not one made at anyone.
Jim.

 

[shrap]

You have not done anything wrong? You were just defending a friend? I would also say you are very far from painfully honest, as I have more than proven here. That is the facts!!

Bobby,

All I have seen you prove is that you will adamantly defend your friends no matter how right or wrong they are. That you are incapable of looking at things in a unbiased manner when it comes to your friends. Which you have shown on more than one occasion on this board. That is the only FACT I have seen presented here by you.

And let me make this perfectly clear. I aint saying anyone is right or wrong from everything I have read. How could anyone considering their has been no concrete evidence posted by anyone about anything? Except Kevin trying to say that having Adeno is perfectly acceptable. Which is his opinion, not a industry wide accepted fact from what I have read and the talks I have had with other leaders in the beardie industry.

 

[varnyard]

That is where you are wrong guys, she has supported this lie about PCR blood swab testing by her friend. This testing is not happening at all, no where at all. Yet they claim it is, and I might add telling it far from the truth.

Call FSU, ask for Dr. Stacey or Dr. Jacobson, these are the experts on this virus. They will say there is no PCR blood testing anywhere in the US on this virus, so tell me why Denise is claiming to have clean dragons by a test that is not real? The problem with Tere, she is backing her up 110%. By doing this is it feeding a lie? Tere knows that there is no such test, that is the fact. Neither Denise or Tere can say anywhere at all that has this testing, because there is no where.


If Tere is so honest, then have her post any lab that has PCR blood swab testing for this virus. The experts (Dr. Stacey or Dr. Jacobson) do not know of any such testing.

So is it a lie? You tell me.

 

[Tere Salazar]

Uh, Bobby...how would I know there's no such test when the only testing I researched myself was the Fecal EM testing? I knew I couldn't afford the PCR testing, so I didn't bother. I originally inquired with Dr. Jacobson to ask him which was the most definitive, and although the PCR is, we couldn't afford it. I didn't pursue it any further than that.

So, no. I don't know that there's no such test. Yes, I've heard you guys screeching about this the past couple of days, but that doesn't mean I put my life on hold to start a major research project to satisfy you. Last time I checked, I'm not married to you...in fact, I don't even know you. I don't care who you are, you do NOT have the right to make any demands of me, and I have no obligation to do anything to satisfy you. I have nothing to prove to you, or anyone else for that matter.

Why would I spend my days calling labs for something when it was never an option for us? I have two young children, both of whom are home schooled, husband, a full time job, and a houseful of dragons, and I've been sick as a dog for a week. What I do NOT have time for is crap like that or crap like this.

You know, you're not any better than the people who expected me to have my website completed redone in a matter of minutes after finding out when had a positive colony.

It is not a lie to say I don't know where, Bobby. That's called honesty. I've not researched it, and I don't know. I also don't feel it's my place to question Denise about it because I know that she PCR tested her dragons. Besides, you're already grilling her enough all on your own...and I'm certainly not adding to that.

 

[varnyard]

Tere, a few of us have asked where this type of testing is being done. There has not been any answer from you or Denise because you have never given one.

What is the deal? You can not say what lab?

If these tests have been done, give us the lab.

 

[Tere Salazar]

Well, maybe if I had done PCR testing, I could tell you. But I didn't and I don't know. So that's the deal. How the hell can I say the lab when I didn't do this type of testing.

If you want so desperately to know...rather than badger me...

CALL DENISE AND ASK HER YOURSELF!!!

Now, there's a novel idea. What's the matter, Bobby...don't want her to know who really wants this information?

 

[shrap]

Bobby,

What part of "Tere did not have that type of test done so she dont know" did you NOT understand?

 

[shrap]

Sorry Tere, you beat me to it.

 

[varnyard]

Saladragon : I completely disagree that this virus is in all beardies, as I personally know at least one person who has PCR tested more than once, and has 100% negative breeding animals. I do think that if the larger breeders continue denying this is a problem, the possibility is certainly there that most bearded dragons will have this virus. Who knows, maybe that's what some are trying to accomplish?

Don't forget this part, she makes the claim about testing by way of PCR blood swab testing. She also knows someone personally that has done this testing.

Denisebme: All the dragons currently in my home have tested negative both on Fecal EM and PCR testing. Does that mean I can be 100% sure that I am not also affected? No, and I have NEVER said any different. The ONLY thing I've ever claimed is that I'm doing what I feel I have to do to protect my dragons, and that means I test.

Denise makes the claim she tested her dragons using the PCR blood swab testing. She also claims her dragons are negative both on Fecal EM and PCR blood swab testing .

Saladragon : See...this is really where you should know the facts before you speak. The University of Florida doesn't use a blood test as part of the PCR testing. Does that mean that no lab in the United States does? No. The University of Florida is NOT the only lab in the United States that does testing for Adenovirus.

Here Tere admits that they do not do the PCR blood swab testing at the University of Florida.

Originally Posted by Denisebme
The PCR testing has to be done through your vet, if they have the testing avaliable, or you can contact Dr. Jacobson for a kit to take to your vet for the swab and the draw (Its a blood test). If I remember correctly, the tests are $65 from Dr. Jacobson, or whatever your vet and lab charges are.
There are a few real differences between the tests. PCR testing is handled like any other blood test. The fecal testing requires very specific handling in order for the test to be reliable, and, at least for me, with incorrect sanitation if you have multiple dragons being tested, you can actually accidently cross contaminate your samples. I didn't want to risk false positive or false negative readings, I didn't want to wait weeks for the test results, and I didn't want to second guess the results, so I went for the more sensative test, and that is PCR. I also found that here in California, its much easier to find someone who can accurately handle the PCR test.
I know that for most people, cost is a big issue. It was for me, I had 15 dragons I needed to test as quickly as possible. The fecal testing is less expensive. My concern was accuracy.

Here Denise claims that they do PCR blood swab testing University of Florida. However we know this is not true, Dr. Jacobson at the University of Florida does no such testing.

Saladragon: See...it boils down to this. Just because someone has decided to take a stand on an issue doesn't mean that they have to give up their privacy. It doesn't mean they should be opened up to grilling from you or anyone else. And it doesn't mean that anyone not involved has the right to ask whatever they want, and expect to receive it.

I think that both Denise and Chasity stated their reasons for not showing their test results, and further proved that point with the removal of the watermark. If you were in their shoes, what would you do? Wait...I think I already know that answer.

Further, Jim, just like I've said to you before, do your own research and form your own opinion.

I would guess it would be much easier to lie then tell the truth, correct?

Denisebme: I see this very differently. First off, I think its up to the breeders to decide if they are going to test or not, and I strongly disagree with people who are making value judgments about the motivation of breeders who don't. A consumer has the absolute right to ask the question, and if they don't like the answer, they can take their business elsewhere, but I draw the line at attacking people.

She says that.

Denisebme: I'd invite you to show me one post where I have slammed anyone personally, including the "large breeders". It hasn't happened. Sure seems like someone put a lot of effort into convincing you that it did though, so they'll have no problem providing proof, right?

But then said this.

Bar None Reptiles: Could someone point me in the direction of the thread where the lab was mentioned? I know I posted incorrectly based on what my vet told me about being able to get a blood test done by California Avian. I went back to her to get the test done and she was told they cannot test for adenovirus using that method. She tried Florida, no one will test using that manner. So if someone has a lab, not asking for your personal vet info cuz I could care less, but the actual LAB that processed the results I would really appreciate knowing. I have a dragon that I cannot get a fecal on and this is my only option left. I have been trying to gather a fecal for him for 4 months now, this just isn't gonna happen this way. I have sent my poor vet on a wild goose chase looking for a lab that will process a blood test and no one will.

What, yet more proof that this test is not used on this virus?

Saladragon: Bobby-

You just crossed the line. I haven't done anything wrong. I'm defending a friend...just the same as you are. I'm pretty sure if you ask anyone who KNOWS me, they would tell you I'm painfully honest...no matter what the situation.

Tere is defending her friend. She also claims she is painfully honest no matter what the situation. Is that so?

Saladragon: Uh, Bobby...how would I know there's no such test when the only testing I researched myself was the Fecal EM testing? I knew I couldn't afford the PCR testing, so I didn't bother. I originally inquired with Dr. Jacobson to ask him which was the most definitive, and although the PCR is, we couldn't afford it. I didn't pursue it any further than that.

So, no. I don't know that there's no such test. Yes, I've heard you guys screeching about this the past couple of days, but that doesn't mean I put my life on hold to start a major research project to satisfy you.

You stated before you did know. I posted the proof above, but now your story changes, why?

You are a breeder of dragons, one of your best friends is Denise, she is also a breeder of dragons. Both of you have been all over the net together, as well as talking about testing dragons on the same exact threads. Now you are going to say you know nothing about these PCR tests?

Tere, I will also ask you, why would letting the information out on the lab be wrong? Many others need to test their dragons, but you want to act like it would be stealing information.

But then again it seems everyone wants to complain about not testing. That makes exactly no sense at all. Unless it is all one great big lie to cover up.

As for Kevin Dunn at Sandfire dragon ranch, I do not know him very well at all. Unless you call meeting him one time at the show, and two phone calls to him would make him some best friend I have. I would not ruin my reputation over such petty things, however I will let a scammer know when the gig is up.

 

[Otter_23]

So Tere doesn't breed dragons anymore do to the avenovirus. She could take the road that others have and say awww it's nothing don't worry about, but she feels it is something to be worried about. A peer who breeds dragons is also concerned about about the adeno virus and tells Tere who has befriended Denise that she has all hers tested by PCR. Why would Tere question that when they are working for the same goal (to educate others about the adenovirus). Tere gains nothing from this she is done breeding and is not selling any dragons. I don't know if Denise was honest with Tere but to call Tere a scammer is laughable at best. Relax Bobby and if you question something go talk to that person that you question before you start throwing around the scammer label at liberty.