Sandfire Dragon Ranch

[Tere Salazar]

Don't forget this part, she makes the claim about testing by way of PCR blood swab testing. She also knows someone personally that has done this testing.

No, Bobby...learn to read. I SAID PCR TESTING. I did NOT say PCR blood swab testing. That's your term. Big difference.

You stated before you did know. I posted the proof above, but now your story changes, why?

Again, learn to read. My story has never changed. What I said was I would have to research who does the blood draws. Any idiot with a computer can read any of these threads that have listed that ONE place that does the PCR testing is the University of Florida. But if I'm understanding correctly, your gripe is about the blood draw. Of course I know about the PCR testing. I'm pretty sure I've said that 100 times or so. What I said was I'd have to research the blood draw. If you can't read and comprehend, that's your problem.

You are a breeder of dragons...Now you are going to say you know nothing about these PCR tests?

Both untrue. I am no longer a breeder of bearded dragons. Maybe you should check out my website where it says WE ARE NO LONGER BREEDING.

YOU said that I said I knew nothing about PCR testing, I did not. I'll repeat one more time...slowly...

I...W O U L D...H A V E...T O...R E S E A R C H...A B O U T...T H E...B L O O D...D R A W S.

Tere, I will also ask you, why would letting the information out on the lab be wrong? Many others need to test their dragons, but you want to act like it would be stealing information.

Then maybe others should contact Denise about it. I'm pretty sure she's posted all over the place to give her a call if anyone needed help. I'm sure she'll be more than happy to help out. Hounding me is going to get you nowhere regarding PCR testing. I can tell you whatever you'd like to know about Fecal EM testing, though. I don't know the name of the lab she used, and even if I did...I sure wouldn't tell you!

Are you done making a fool of yourself yet?

 

[varnyard]

Mark, that is very easy to answer. Tere has been all over threads here and elsewhere defending Denise.

Denise claims to have virus free dragons with a test that is not used for this virus. To claim this is giving false hope at best to her buyers. Would misrepresenting your dragons that you claim have tested negative, but have not tested be a scam?

She will not let anyone know where this so called lab is located, but then complains about them not testing. IMO, there is no such lab. Also the information about the University of Florida is not true, Dr. Jacobson admitted they do no such testing.

BTW, I never called Tere a scammer, however she has been caught stretching it a bit for her friend.

 

[varnyard]

You know, it is funny how things get twisted. It was not me that made the claim about BLOOD TESTING, it was the one you have been defending all along. It is also the one you made the same claims to have virus free dragons.

Maybe you should reread your friends post again. She claims Dr. Jacobson at the University of Florida does blood swab testing.

She has been sticking to that story and you have been backing her up.

Here it is again, just incase you overlooked it to start with:

Originally Posted by Denisebme
The PCR testing has to be done through your vet, if they have the testing avaliable, or you can contact Dr. Jacobson for a kit to take to your vet for the swab and the draw (Its a blood test). If I remember correctly, the tests are $65 from Dr. Jacobson, or whatever your vet and lab charges are.
There are a few real differences between the tests. PCR testing is handled like any other blood test. The fecal testing requires very specific handling in order for the test to be reliable, and, at least for me, with incorrect sanitation if you have multiple dragons being tested, you can actually accidently cross contaminate your samples. I didn't want to risk false positive or false negative readings, I didn't want to wait weeks for the test results, and I didn't want to second guess the results, so I went for the more sensative test, and that is PCR. I also found that here in California, its much easier to find someone who can accurately handle the PCR test.
I know that for most people, cost is a big issue. It was for me, I had 15 dragons I needed to test as quickly as possible. The fecal testing is less expensive. My concern was accuracy.

 

[shrap]

Bobby,

Your tactics aint fooling ANYONE. You are so blindly defending your friend that it is laughable. It is making you laughable.

You are making accusations against people like Tere for NO reason with zero proof. At this point and time Tere has no reason to believe Denise is lying and all this comes across as you trying to stone cold BULLY people into saying that Denise is lying even though they have no facts at this time to do so.

See not everyone is willing to run around and call people liars and unethical with no proof like you do Bobby. Most of us hold ourselves to a higher standard than that before we make accusations about people.

 

[varnyard]

Bobby,

Your tactics aint fooling ANYONE. You are so blindly defending your friend that it is laughable. It is making you laughable.

You are making accusations against people like Tere for NO reason with zero proof. At this point and time Tere has no reason to believe Denise is lying and all this comes across as you trying to stone cold BULLY people into saying that Denise is lying even though they have no facts at this time to do so.

See not everyone is willing to run around and call people liars and unethical with no proof like you do Bobby. Most of us hold ourselves to a higher standard than that before we make accusations about people.

Sammy, you have not read this thread, or the other thread here on the other Sandfire BOI.

To say I am trying to fool someone, that is funny. That is exactly what you are now defending. Seems you are the one that has been fooled.

Maybe you should read this again:

Saladragon : I completely disagree that this virus is in all beardies, as I personally know at least one person who has PCR tested more than once, and has 100% negative breeding animals. I do think that if the larger breeders continue denying this is a problem, the possibility is certainly there that most bearded dragons will have this virus. Who knows, maybe that's what some are trying to accomplish?

And then this:

Originally Posted by Denisebme:
The PCR testing has to be done through your vet, if they have the testing avaliable, or you can contact Dr. Jacobson for a kit to take to your vet for the swab and the draw (Its a blood test).

But the truth is out now:

Florida would like everyone to know they do not do blood PCR and they are upset over this misinformation, Dr. Stacey or Jacobson will speak with anyone who wishes to question them about the validity of her statement XXXXXXXXXXXXX [admin: phone number removed. I seriously doubt they care to have a flood of calls. If they want that contact info provided, THEY can post it.[/B]

Dr. Stacey said you did not submit any samples, he does not have your phone number and you will not call him.

We do not have 11 negatives in the country as of 3/27/07 after retesting of the negatives, the numbers are dwindling Chastity and when the statistics come out next week it will show that you did not have 11 dragons test negative by PCR at his lab and his lab is the only one that does the PCR. The people with the small number of resulting negatives are going to be able to be verified with a phone call to the lab.

Florida does not do blood PCR /swab end of story.

Tere has defended Denise on these statements from the start, how is it Sammy I am the one that is trying to fool someone?

 

[Tere Salazar]

Bobby,

Your tactics aint fooling ANYONE. You are so blindly defending your friend that it is laughable. It is making you laughable.

You are making accusations against people like Tere for NO reason with zero proof. At this point and time Tere has no reason to believe Denise is lying and all this comes across as you trying to stone cold BULLY people into saying that Denise is lying even though they have no facts at this time to do so.

See not everyone is willing to run around and call people liars and unethical with no proof like you do Bobby. Most of us hold ourselves to a higher standard than that before we make accusations about people.

Thank you, Sammy. You are exactly correct. Denise and I have had very pointed conversations about her PCR testing, and yes, I believe 100% that she tested once with Fecal EM, then again PCR...more than one time. Did I ask her for proof that she did PCR testing? No...I TRUST HER. She has absolutely NO reason to lie to me about what method of testing she chose.

Bobby, yes, I, unlike some other folks on this board, can READ what is written and comprehend it. But I'm not real sure how it is you're holding me responsible for anything Denise has posted. Yes, I back her 100%. Yes, I believe her 100%. Does that make me responsible for her posts, no.

Now, I'm not real sure when it is that feeling you don't have to prove anything to anyone became lying or scamming. I'm sure that if Denise felt the need to prove anything to you, she'd be on here posting. Just because she isn't bowing to you doesn't mean she's lying or scamming. Did you ever think maybe she just doesn't like you?

You're exactly correct in one thing...and let me be VERY clear here...because it's the ONLY thing you're correct about. Yes, I have defended my friend. Last time I checked, that didn't constitue being called a liar or a scammer. After all, I'm not calling you a liar and a scammer for defending your friend, am I? And like I said before, I have this feeling that you'll be owing both my FRIEND, Denise, and I an apology real soon.

What you might want to do is question why your "friend" is so interested in Denise's test results. Why don't you ask your "friend" why it is that Denise's colony, in and of itself, throws such a huge kink in her plans. Further, why don't you tell your "friend" to do her own dirty work.

You don't frighten me, Bobby...and neither does your "friend".

 

[shrap]

Sheesh, I am talking about your motives behind your attacks on these people. Which is to protect your friend.

As I said earlier, I aint seen enough proof posted by anyone to make a definitive stance on this one way or the other. What I have seen is you twisting peoples words and trying to bully them into going along with your take on this. Which you just said a few posts ago is your OPINION. Not a fact at this point and time.

 

[shrap]

Ok, I am talking to Cheri and she says that she has certificates in her hand right now from the tests she had done at the University of Florida. And it states:

ADENOVIRUS PCR RESULTS
REPTILE SEROLOGY LABORATORY
UNIVERSITY OF FLORIDA
COLLEGE OF VETERINARY MEDICINE
(352) 392-47xx EXT 55xx

I think it is fair to say that a PCR test does exist and is done at the U of F.

 

[shrap]

I may be wrong here, but it sure seems POSSIBLE to me that a bunch of big time breeders have infected colonies. And instead of doing the right thing and taking a financial loss and starting over they would rather infect everyone so no one can claim to have clean dragons. Anyone with clean dragons must be discredited because they are a threat to them.

Possible. Not a fact or accusation, just something that popped into my head after a bunch of reading.

 

[varnyard]

Tere, to back her false claims of testing by way of PCR Blood swab testing by Dr. Jacobson at the University of Florida . The PCR testing is not even done by them, that is what you said Tere here:

Saladragon : See...this is really where you should know the facts before you speak. The University of Florida doesn't use a blood test as part of the PCR testing.

But Denise says:

Denisebme: The PCR testing has to be done through your vet, if they have the testing avaliable, or you can contact Dr. Jacobson for a kit to take to your vet for the swab and the draw (Its a blood test). If I remember correctly, the tests are $65 from Dr. Jacobson.

So do they test or not?

But I'm not real sure how it is you're holding me responsible for anything Denise has posted. Yes, I back her 100%. Yes, I believe her 100%. Does that make me responsible for her posts, no.

I have a problem with the claim that these dragons are free from this virus as you stated Tere.

Then to find the information she is posting is false. You even said it yourself:

Saladragon : See...this is really where you should know the facts before you speak. The University of Florida doesn't use a blood test as part of the PCR testing.

Yet Denise claims they do and you support that? How can you say this when you know they do not test using this type of test?

Sammy, if you have some kind of proof of this unknown friend you speak of, feel free to post the proof. Otherwise, you are making yourself look mighty funny. This is about two different stories being told here. Can you not read this post and see there are two different stories?

And yes, it does exsist. The PCR test, is not the same test that Denise claims to have. She claims to have been using PCR blood swab tests that is not used by U,o,F, they are not the same. It can be found in the blood in the very last stages before death. But the exam that is used on dragons is the EM or fecal testing, it is used to detect this virus, I am not saying they can not use a PCR fecal swab, but it is not blood testing as stated by Denise.

 

[shrap]

From what I understand the PCR test is a like a DNA test. Blood, fecal or even an oral swab can be used for the test.

And Bobby, I said who the person was in my post. Not some unknown friend. Quit twisting what people say.

 

[Dachiu]

Sammy,

The fact that the University of Florida does a PCR for adenovirus is not in question. The sample that is submitted for testing is. Please clarify - Was Cheri's submission feces or blood? The PCR results from the lab all have the same heading on them - but in the graphed section it will say "ANIMAL NAME/ID - TISSUE - RESULT".

Testing for adenovirus in lizards by PCR

The two types of samples typically submitted for adenovirus testing in lizards are liver and feces. Based on known aspects of adenoviral disease in lizards, liver is the preferred sample for detecting systemic infection; however, a fecal sample may be submitted in live animals that are unable to undergo hepatic biopsy or when a hepatic biopsy is not possible for any reason. We have successfully detected adenovirus in fecal samples from clinically ill patients; however, the sensitivity of this technique is unknown. Also, it is unknown what proportion of infected lizards may shed adenovirus without associated clinical symptoms.

They do not offer the blood sample PCR at Florida. Anyone who would like to clarify or verify this can call Dr. Stacey at 352-392-4700 x 5775

One person made this claim already but made the mistake of saying that Florida did said testing. When Florida was asked about submissions of blood for PCR testing... need I repeat it?

Now, if Denise in fact, did get a blood PCR done - REGARDLESS of her results - what lab did the testing?

 

[shrap]

From what I understand the PCR test is a like a DNA test. Blood, fecal or even an oral swab can be used for the test. It just depends on what the lab is set up for.

Forgot that last sentence in the above post.

 

[Tere Salazar]

Hey Vickie-

Why don't you give her a call and ask her?

 

[shrap]

I do believe Cheri said hers was a fecal when I was talking to her earlier.

 

[Tere Salazar]

Wow...we all posted at the same time.

Bobby-

Yes...I can say that because SHE DIDN'T USE FLORIDA FOR HER TESTING.

If you'll go back and read, you'll see that she never said she used the University of Florida for her testing. She was telling people where the PCR testing is available, but she never said that was where she tested. I do believe that was brought to your attention earlier this weekend.

Just because the University of Florida doesn't offer something, doesn't mean that nobody else does...and that was also brought to your attention.

 

[shrap]

Tere,

You know how we parents have selective hearing when it comes to our kids sometimes? Well Bobby seems to have selective reading comprehension when it comes to posts. Anything that refutes what he is saying is not processed.

 

[varnyard]

Wow...we all posted at the same time.

Bobby-

Yes...I can say that because SHE DIDN'T USE FLORIDA FOR HER TESTING.

If you'll go back and read, you'll see that she never said she used the University of Florida for her testing. She was telling people where the PCR testing is available, but she never said that was where she tested. I do believe that was brought to your attention earlier this weekend.

Just because the University of Florida doesn't offer something, doesn't mean that nobody else does...and that was also brought to your attention.

I understand what you are saying Tere, but Denise made the claim they did. She even quoted a price:

Denisebme: The PCR testing has to be done through your vet, if they have the testing avaliable, or you can contact Dr. Jacobson for a kit to take to your vet for the swab and the draw (Its a blood test). If I remember correctly, the tests are $65 from Dr. Jacobson.

Sammy, this is where the problem comes into play. It is two different tests. But U,o,F does not blood test as Denise claimed. She claims to have dragons that are virus free with the blood swab tests.

Tere, just got caught trying to defend a friend. I can understand that, but it does not help this cause to support false info.

 

[shrap]

And to think I stumbled into all of this because I am getting my daughter her (our) first beardie sometime this year. Fate.

 

[jsrocket]

From what I understand the PCR test is a like a DNA test. Blood, fecal or even an oral swab can be used for the test. It just depends on what the lab is set up for.

Forgot that last sentence in the above post.

That's true, PCR is a crucial step in DNA testing. The DNA of the virus is "copied" millions of times, to provide a large enough sample to analyze.

What I'm understanding so far, however, is that a dragon can have the virus in a latent state, where none shows up in the blood, making it a pointless, but very expensive excercise to rely on a blood test.

Fecal samples seem to be a much more reliable indicator. I do not know if the PCR test can be used on a fecal, but it is certainly possible.

If any of this is wrong, someone feel free to correct me.